lipoli390 wrote:Duke13 wrote:I've wasn't super vocal of the Wig contract. I don't and didn't like him as a player at the point of the contact, however I still had a sliver of hope he'd improve. I was way more vocal about the Butler deal. For a lot of reasons. I was a big deliever and Zach and still liked Dunn and valued the 8th pick. I didn't agree with the narrative that was out there that they needed to make the playoffs that real or the world would end. I didn't see it as a move that put us in contention and ruined our flexibly. Which turned out to be pretty correct. Worst sports night in history for me, that 2017 draft. Yuk!
Absolutely right, Duke! That wasn't the time to try to shoot for the moon by adding a 28-year old with an injury history to a team whose core young players were 20-22 years old and still developing. I wasn't very vocal about it on this Board, but I did write an email to the Wolves front office expressing my disappointment. I've always said you need to build through the draft in a market like ours. But actually, that's true in most markets. You have to accumulate draft picks, then remain patient with your young guys as you keep bringing in young talent via the draft and smart below-the-radar free agent acquisitions of young players until the team starts to excel. That's what the Sixers and Celtics have done. When you get over the hump with your young guys, that's when you can start to look for big trades to shore up the team with a top vet. Again, that's what the Sixers did. They got to 50 wins with their young guys and then started dealing for vets like Butler and then Tobias Harris. They had valuable picks to help get Harris while still retaining some nice picks like Chicago's 2019 second rounder.
Again, bad front office personnel making bad decisions. It drives me nuts knowing that the Wolves would be in MUCH better shape if you, me or a number of others on this Board had been in charge of the Wolves front office over the past 6 years.
I still won't blame the Wolves on the Butler trade. I know hindsight is huge in valuating how trades ended up and I know some people didn't like the trade at the time. Once again we traded a guy coming off an ACL injury about to get paid, a very bad rookie year for an older rookie and the #7 pick for an All NBA type player in Butler. In the end it didn't work but it is so hard to acquire talent in today's NBA for a small market like ours. Butler is an ass no doubt and in the end the trade didn't pan out. Look how much the trade would be perceived differently if we wold have selected Collins, Kuzma, OG at that pick instead of getting nothing out of Patton.
Also its not like Dunn is any good, lavine has moments but is still overpaid and his value has decreased around the league since the trade, also we would still be in cap if Dunn, Marrkannan and Lavine were still on the books, even worse than we are now.
Of course Thibs made a lot of mistakes with 2 big ones being Wiggins deal (what I understand why he did it) and Gorgui contract (what is just terrible). But I will always defend Thibs on the Butler trade. If you tell me what happened was the worst case scenario and we ended up with Saric, Cov, an expiring and a 2nd I would still do that trade 100 times out of 100 times.
Also with the Celtics thing they are considered on of the front offices in the NBA and I agree they are but if they get knocked out of the 1st round this year to the sixers and Kyrie walks how is their situation much different than the Wolves.
Both have killer contracts for different reasons, Hayward and Wiggins. Both have expiring solid PFs in Morris and Taj. Both have a stud in Towns and Tatum (I think Towns is a tier above), both have ultimate role players in Cov and Smart, both have RFA PGs that we don't know how good they really are in Rozier and Tyus. Both have young guys in Brown and Saric that have flat lined a little bit this year. Now they have Horford who is better than Teague and Gorgui combined but if Kyrie leaves, they will have no cap space, Horford becomes a free agent that next year, Brown and Tatum contracts will be coming up and neither are as good as KAT. For a front office that did almost everything right they could be in a very similar spot as the wolves.
