thedoper wrote:All criticism of Thibs aside he still left us a better team than what we had with him coming in. He had a lot of problems and I agree it was time for him to move, but putting him on the same level or even the same breath of some of the catastrophic failures we've seen in Wolves' management is a little too far for me. The problem as I saw it and always did was in giving him a dual role of positions that are supposed to be opposed by nature.
I guess it depends on whether you include resources in that discussion. He took over a team that won about 30 games, and should have improved year to year without any changes. The wolves had cap space and no bad deals on the roster. Now we have a team that is likely about 12 wins better and up against the luxury tax. Not impressed!
I agree with the SP that any teawould have maxed out Wiggins and Towns, which puts pretty much any scenario against the luxury tax. Also, Thibs gave the vets all short term movable deals. That's an asset overall as a contract like Teague's, though large, can be moved. None of it is impressive, but it's not a net negative at all.
I am sure Teague's deal can be moved, but what would it cost us. I don't see us getting any value back for him.
Lots of teams want 18 mil expiring if he opts in. We can move him at this deadline for an asset I'm sure if we wanted to go that route. I don't see the downside in his deal at all. Yes Teague gets panned on this board a lot but he's a solid player for any playoff team out there needing depth for their guards.
sjm34 wrote:Kahn started rebuilding immediately and they managed a paltry 15 wins his first season, and the team he left with Flip pumped out 40 wins. Thibs managed 31 wins (2 more than Mitchell) his first season and I would guess a full season might have brought 40-45 wins. Not really seeing much of a difference. For as bad as Kahn was, Thibs actually looks to be worse.
Kahn was worse even if only because he was responsible for hiring Rambis, whereas POBO Thibs was not the decision maker when it came to hiring that bum Coach Thibs!
sjm34 wrote:Kahn started rebuilding immediately and they managed a paltry 15 wins his first season, and the team he left with Flip pumped out 40 wins. Thibs managed 31 wins (2 more than Mitchell) his first season and I would guess a full season might have brought 40-45 wins. Not really seeing much of a difference. For as bad as Kahn was, Thibs actually looks to be worse.
Kahn was worse even if only because he was responsible for hiring Rambis, whereas POBO Thibs was not the decision maker when it came to hiring that bum Coach Thibs!
thedoper wrote:All criticism of Thibs aside he still left us a better team than what we had with him coming in. He had a lot of problems and I agree it was time for him to move, but putting him on the same level or even the same breath of some of the catastrophic failures we've seen in Wolves' management is a little too far for me. The problem as I saw it and always did was in giving him a dual role of positions that are supposed to be opposed by nature.
I guess it depends on whether you include resources in that discussion. He took over a team that won about 30 games, and should have improved year to year without any changes. The wolves had cap space and no bad deals on the roster. Now we have a team that is likely about 12 wins better and up against the luxury tax. Not impressed!
I agree with the SP that any teawould have maxed out Wiggins and Towns, which puts pretty much any scenario against the luxury tax. Also, Thibs gave the vets all short term movable deals. That's an asset overall as a contract like Teague's, though large, can be moved. None of it is impressive, but it's not a net negative at all.
I am sure Teague's deal can be moved, but what would it cost us. I don't see us getting any value back for him.
Lots of teams want 18 mil expiring if he opts in. We can move him at this deadline for an asset I'm sure if we wanted to go that route. I don't see the downside in his deal at all. Yes Teague gets panned on this board a lot but he's a solid player for any playoff team out there needing depth for their guards.
Teams that want 18 mil expiring deals want to give back longer deals. SHouldn't the wolves be the team looking for the expiring deal?
thedoper wrote:All criticism of Thibs aside he still left us a better team than what we had with him coming in. He had a lot of problems and I agree it was time for him to move, but putting him on the same level or even the same breath of some of the catastrophic failures we've seen in Wolves' management is a little too far for me. The problem as I saw it and always did was in giving him a dual role of positions that are supposed to be opposed by nature.
I guess it depends on whether you include resources in that discussion. He took over a team that won about 30 games, and should have improved year to year without any changes. The wolves had cap space and no bad deals on the roster. Now we have a team that is likely about 12 wins better and up against the luxury tax. Not impressed!
I agree with the SP that any teawould have maxed out Wiggins and Towns, which puts pretty much any scenario against the luxury tax. Also, Thibs gave the vets all short term movable deals. That's an asset overall as a contract like Teague's, though large, can be moved. None of it is impressive, but it's not a net negative at all.
I am sure Teague's deal can be moved, but what would it cost us. I don't see us getting any value back for him.
Lots of teams want 18 mil expiring if he opts in. We can move him at this deadline for an asset I'm sure if we wanted to go that route. I don't see the downside in his deal at all. Yes Teague gets panned on this board a lot but he's a solid player for any playoff team out there needing depth for their guards.
Teams that want 18 mil expiring deals want to give back longer deals. SHouldn't the wolves be the team looking for the expiring deal?
No we have to trade into contracts now. That's our only mechanism for acquiring legit talent at this point, unless we can turn Teague into a lottery pick for taking on Salary. If we started shedding salary we're fucked and better all start recognizing that Taylor has no intention of building a winner here, not that I ever really believe that he did have that intention.
If we are gonna just list the bad stuff that ever GM did...it gets prettty ugly. I thought Britt's last article going through the franchise's history was pretty fantastic AND pretty fair.
Ripping Thibs is fine BUT FWIW I'd put money on Flip resigning Dieng for a healthy contract (and offering Bazz at least as much as Thibs did) maxing out Wiggins and Lavine being back maybe paying more than Chicago paid him. We would be paying some guys a boatload or money right now...similar to where we are at now. The alternate universes can very easily be unkind in some ways.
Let's just agree Thibs wasn't good enough in his job and we need better. I don't see the need for the litany of errors written over and over and over. We know we need better decisions drafting and development. Hopefully Ryan Saunders is a part of moving in that direction or we get the right people in a few months.
khans2k5 wrote:When did Thibs pass on the greatest shooter of all time twice in a row? I must have missed that part.
Interesting... :)
So about greatest shooters of all time note that technically the Wolves passed on Klay Thompson also. Ok nobody is gonna rip Kahn for that one and I remember thinking it was ridiculous that Klay was called a reach and I didn't know that much about him. Anyway back to Kahn. He went into that 2011 draft with 2 first round picks #2 and #20 and ended up with nobody of value from that draft. To be fair Malcolm Lee a 2nd rounder couldn't stay healthy but we passed on worthwhile guys like Mirotic* Butler and sold the 2nd round pick Houston sent us in the Flynn trade back to them for cash and they picked Parsons. *#23 used for Mirotic the Bulls traded to get that pick from us which enabled Kahn to do a flurry of deals including moving down numerous times efebcrively passing on Jimmy 3 times including #28. He traded 31st pick to the Nets (Bogdonovic) for the Wolves own 2nd rounder in 2014 and cash. Kahn did get a 2013 pick in the Flynn deal. What happened with that pick? Flip sold it for cash. Guess what happened to the 2014 2nd round pick? Yep more cash. Time to do something else.
khans2k5 wrote:When did Thibs pass on the greatest shooter of all time twice in a row? I must have missed that part.
Interesting... :)
So about greatest shooters of all time note that technically the Wolves passed on Klay Thompson also. Ok nobody is gonna rip Kahn for that one and I remember thinking it was ridiculous that Klay was called a reach and I didn't know that much about him. Anyway back to Kahn. He went into that 2011 draft with 2 first round picks #2 and #20 and ended up with nobody of value from that draft. To be fair Malcolm Lee a 2nd rounder couldn't stay healthy but we passed on worthwhile guys like Mirotic* Butler and sold the 2nd round pick Houston sent us in the Flynn trade back to them for cash and they picked Parsons. *#23 used for Mirotic the Bulls traded to get that pick from us which enabled Kahn to do a flurry of deals including moving down numerous times efebcrively passing on Jimmy 3 times including #28. He traded 31st pick to the Nets (Bogdonovic) for the Wolves own 2nd rounder in 2014 and cash. Kahn did get a 2013 pick in the Flynn deal. What happened with that pick? Flip sold it for cash. Guess what happened to the 2014 2nd round pick? Yep more cash. Time to do something else.
All of these screw ups and more, and yet Kahn improved the team more than Thibs.
khans2k5 wrote:When did Thibs pass on the greatest shooter of all time twice in a row? I must have missed that part.
Interesting... :)
So about greatest shooters of all time note that technically the Wolves passed on Klay Thompson also. Ok nobody is gonna rip Kahn for that one and I remember thinking it was ridiculous that Klay was called a reach and I didn't know that much about him. Anyway back to Kahn. He went into that 2011 draft with 2 first round picks #2 and #20 and ended up with nobody of value from that draft. To be fair Malcolm Lee a 2nd rounder couldn't stay healthy but we passed on worthwhile guys like Mirotic* Butler and sold the 2nd round pick Houston sent us in the Flynn trade back to them for cash and they picked Parsons. *#23 used for Mirotic the Bulls traded to get that pick from us which enabled Kahn to do a flurry of deals including moving down numerous times efebcrively passing on Jimmy 3 times including #28. He traded 31st pick to the Nets (Bogdonovic) for the Wolves own 2nd rounder in 2014 and cash. Kahn did get a 2013 pick in the Flynn deal. What happened with that pick? Flip sold it for cash. Guess what happened to the 2014 2nd round pick? Yep more cash. Time to do something else.
Never understood why they didn't try to trade out of that #2 spot (even though it was the highest pick the Wolves had up to that point).
Malcolm Lee or Lazar Hayward... who'd people love more?
