AbeVigodaLive wrote:Missed the game... but I thought this was the best place to add this shocking statistical nugget...
After one game, the Wolves are last in the league in 3 point attempts.
Right where they belong... after all they finished #30 last year.
#30 in 2017
#29 in 2016
#30 in 2015
I get that not everybody likes more three pointers. But good or bad... it's a staple in today's NBA for every team... except the Wolves. Are they simply so revolutionary, that they're creating a new, clever, strategic counter to everybody else that's going to be the next wave for the NBA?
Yeah, it's getting comical at this point. Thibs has had three years as both coach and GM to fix this problem and he hasn't done it. Reason # 204 to fire him.
It seems like Thibs is so dependent on pick and roll and isolation basketball that he MUST have shot creators and dribble drive guys to create any type of offense for his system. Thus we see the likes of Crawford and Rose - inefficient gunners - go out and try to carry the load. Meanwhile, the best three point shooter on the team most likely - James Nunnally - stays on the bench.
Thibs was an excellent coach in Boston and Chicago. There's no denying that.
Many of us were optimistic with the hiring because he was almost universally heralded as a revolutionary coach defensively. He was the guy behind the system that changed how defense was played in the NBA... in 2012. Revisionist history aside, he was a great get at the time.
The NBA has changed a lot since 2012. The best coaches continuously adapt. I don't think Thibs has been able to pull this off. The defensive principles that changed the game in 2010 - 2013 are obsolete in a league where even Andre Drummond is now shooting multiple three pointers per game.
I will say that I thought our defense was solid-ish last night. The metric we are chronically horrible at - just like 3-point attempts - is Opponent eFG%. That is the #1 thing that needs to change for us to become consistent winners. We made them miss a fair amount last night. I even thought KAT did a good job contesting shots and staying square. But we don't get enough "help for the helper" and so their bigs were able to eat us up on the O-glass.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Missed the game... but I thought this was the best place to add this shocking statistical nugget...
After one game, the Wolves are last in the league in 3 point attempts.
Right where they belong... after all they finished #30 last year.
#30 in 2017
#29 in 2016
#30 in 2015
I get that not everybody likes more three pointers. But good or bad... it's a staple in today's NBA for every team... except the Wolves. Are they simply so revolutionary, that they're creating a new, clever, strategic counter to everybody else that's going to be the next wave for the NBA?
Yeah, it's getting comical at this point. Thibs has had three years as both coach and GM to fix this problem and he hasn't done it. Reason # 204 to fire him.
It seems like Thibs is so dependent on pick and roll and isolation basketball that he MUST have shot creators and dribble drive guys to create any type of offense for his system. Thus we see the likes of Crawford and Rose - inefficient gunners - go out and try to carry the load. Meanwhile, the best three point shooter on the team most likely - James Nunnally - stays on the bench.
Thibs was an excellent coach in Boston and Chicago. There's no denying that.
.
Because you say so?? DENY, DENY, DENY, DENY, DENY
He wasn't ever head coach in Boston and Boston was stacked, just stacked. I give the players the credit.
Pretty much same thing in Chicago. Chicago was stacked. I give Chicago's front office more credit than anything Thibs did. Thibs wasn't bad unless you factor in what his coaching did to the players careers. Yeah, his win loss was very good, but at what cost? But if you give a coach a great roster, a coach can win and Tyrone Lue is an even more excellent coach if you go by win/loss record. And remember Thibs win/loss record isn't so impressive in the playoffs when the games really count. I didn't really pay a lot of attention to Thibs while he was in Chicago and so most of my observations are watching him coach the Wolves and he is nowhere close to excellent, and not even good and so I have to think Thibs got a lot more credit than he deserved back then or he has gone senile or crazy or both since then.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Missed the game... but I thought this was the best place to add this shocking statistical nugget...
After one game, the Wolves are last in the league in 3 point attempts.
Right where they belong... after all they finished #30 last year.
#30 in 2017
#29 in 2016
#30 in 2015
I get that not everybody likes more three pointers. But good or bad... it's a staple in today's NBA for every team... except the Wolves. Are they simply so revolutionary, that they're creating a new, clever, strategic counter to everybody else that's going to be the next wave for the NBA?
Yeah, it's getting comical at this point. Thibs has had three years as both coach and GM to fix this problem and he hasn't done it. Reason # 204 to fire him.
It seems like Thibs is so dependent on pick and roll and isolation basketball that he MUST have shot creators and dribble drive guys to create any type of offense for his system. Thus we see the likes of Crawford and Rose - inefficient gunners - go out and try to carry the load. Meanwhile, the best three point shooter on the team most likely - James Nunnally - stays on the bench.
Thibs was an excellent coach in Boston and Chicago. There's no denying that.
.
Because you say so?? DENY, DENY, DENY, DENY, DENY
He wasn't ever head coach in Boston and Boston was stacked, just stacked. I give the players the credit.
Pretty much same thing in Chicago. Chicago was stacked. I give Chicago's front office more credit than anything Thibs did. Thibs wasn't bad unless you factor in what his coaching did to the players careers. Yeah, his win loss was very good, but at what cost? But if you give a coach a great roster, a coach can win and Tyrone Lue is an even more excellent coach if you go by win/loss record. And remember Thibs win/loss record isn't so impressive in the playoffs when the games really count. I didn't really pay a lot of attention to Thibs while he was in Chicago and so most of my observations are watching him coach the Wolves and he is nowhere close to excellent, and not even good and so I have to think Thibs got a lot more credit than he deserved back then or he has gone senile or crazy or both since then.
DENY, Deny, DENY
Huh?
If anybody on this forum is on the "players >>> coaching" bandwagon, it's been me. It's very well documented.
But beyond that... Because I say so? Meh. There's a litany of other sources in and out of the league who are on record claiming the guy came with excellent credentials. But maybe they were all wrong. And maybe the guy who wasn't paying attention is right...
I won't argue that I've been less than impressed with Thibs in Minnesota.
[Note: You also seem to be missing a HUGE part of what I previously wrote. It's nearly universally noted that Thibs did change defense across the league at the beginning of the decade. But those principles are compromised or antiquated in today's league. So considering you "didn't pay a lot of attention" to those Chicago teams... excuse me if I take the word of NBA insiders and my own eye test over your take here. Just for fun, you should check out the Bulls playoff roster vs. regular season roster some time for some of those years. Remember, they were dealing with the Rose situation multiple times in the postseason.]
Our point differential with Thibs has been really good in every year he's coached us relative to our talent. I think the main thing I see, that is probably why people criticize his coaching, is that we rarely get a good shot when Thibs draws up a play. I suspect his offensive plays are not that creative in the crunch. The result is that at key times on this team, we're not executing. Hard for me to believe he would give up this area to someone else though. I think he's a good systems coach, but his deficiencies are in the details of an offense. That being said I think 90% of the coaches out there have some sort of deficiency. That is purely basketball though. How he handles people is a whole other story. It looks like Okogie won't even play until Rose gets injured this year.
Thorpe said on Wolfson's latest podcast that a couple years ago he thought Thibs was one of the elite coaches in the league. He said obviously that's taken a hit. If you look back at some of the surveys on coaching that ranks the head coaches from the last couple years Thibs is either ranked around the top half or well above being terrible. It will be interesting to see what he does this year. Last yearDoc was on kind of a hot seat or itchy seat and had a hell of a seaso coaching a mashup group to a winning record. It wouldn't exactly be completely shocking if Thibs did the same thing. This roster isn't devoid of talent aside from Butler. Also...based on Taylor's comments we aren't trading Butler for junk and a bevy of draft picks. I saw more player movement (guys were really cutting within the offense with some actual effort) in chunks of this game which was encouraging. At times that led to guys getting momentum to attack or easier looks.
Dieng took 2 above the break 3's in this game. He said media day he is confident in his shot it's about what the coach asks you to do. Dieng is a good shooter in his own way there is simply no reason that he should t let 3's fly if he is open and it's a reasonably good shot. One of them was up against the shotclock jut I liked he just took it with a few ticks left instead of waiting because if he missed there was a chance at the rebound etc.
monsterpile wrote:Thorpe said on Wolfson's latest podcast that a couple years ago he thought Thibs was one of the elite coaches in the league. He said obviously that's taken a hit. If you look back at some of the surveys on coaching that ranks the head coaches from the last couple years Thibs is either ranked around the top half or well above being terrible. It will be interesting to see what he does this year. Last yearDoc was on kind of a hot seat or itchy seat and had a hell of a seaso coaching a mashup group to a winning record. It wouldn't exactly be completely shocking if Thibs did the same thing. This roster isn't devoid of talent aside from Butler. Also...based on Taylor's comments we aren't trading Butler for junk and a bevy of draft picks. I saw more player movement (guys were really cutting within the offense with some actual effort) in chunks of this game which was encouraging. At times that led to guys getting momentum to attack or easier looks.
Dieng took 2 above the break 3's in this game. He said media day he is confident in his shot it's about what the coach asks you to do. Dieng is a good shooter in his own way there is simply no reason that he should t let 3's fly if he is open and it's a reasonably good shot. One of them was up against the shotclock jut I liked he just took it with a few ticks left instead of waiting because if he missed there was a chance at the rebound etc.
Three pointers can be good...
More corner 3 pointers would be ideal. Granted, every NBA team should be drilling this into every single thing they do offensively/defensively at this point... but you never know sometimes.
There is angst out there about arise playing 31 minutes and yeah it's too many BUT I'll say this if he is gonna play with that kind of hustle and energy I'm kinda ok with rewarding that with some run. How good or bad his defense was in his game is...whatever but there is no way he was anywhere near the level of bad Crawford was. Rose was at least getting into his guy and his athletism shows up at times contesting shots or rebounds etc. He took too many shots but he also did have some possessions he drove and kicked which opened up 3 point shots for guys. If the energy and effort is gonna be there then the question is how much can he pick his spots vs just go in Derrick Rose mode. I know aim more positive about his possible contributions than most but I saw a bit there from him in this game that was actually encouraging. I think we will see Okogie get some opportunities.
monsterpile wrote:There is angst out there about arise playing 31 minutes and yeah it's too many BUT I'll say this if he is gonna play with that kind of hustle and energy I'm kinda ok with rewarding that with some run. How good or bad his defense was in his game is...whatever but there is no way he was anywhere near the level of bad Crawford was. Rose was at least getting into his guy and his athletism shows up at times contesting shots or rebounds etc. He took too many shots but he also did have some possessions he drove and kicked which opened up 3 point shots for guys. If the energy and effort is gonna be there then the question is how much can he pick his spots vs just go in Derrick Rose mode. I know aim more positive about his possible contributions than most but I saw a bit there from him in this game that was actually encouraging. I think we will see Okogie get some opportunities.
Energy guys with very very poor efficiency don't usually get 31 minutes on good teams.
And Derrick Rose is a far far cry from Marcus Smart.
Playing Rose for 31 mpg is like using a clear-colored band-aid to fix a gaping, 17-inch incision.
Yeah, his Derrick Rose obsession is borderline pathological. At least with his Butler obsession, there is real evidence and data to back him up.
By the way, I've been impressed with Rose's energy and effort level. That's not the issue. He's just not a good NBA basketball player anymore and hasn't been for multiple seasons now.
