Senseless and Defenseless - Pacers@Wolves GDT

[Crazysauce]

I agree. It just seems the ball was moving around and didnt stop without wiggins out there. Guys going to the basket and just bringing it on defense. Was actually fun to watch

[kekgeek]

Is thibs changing a bit. We are playing faster, shooting more 3s, minute distribution is more balanced. Lip might need to confirm this one but at least not on TV i'm not hearing him yell (at least as much)

[thedoper]

Well our bench is much improved in 4 games.

[Lipoli390]

Towns is good.

That Jimmy Butler ain't half bad either ;)

I'm just pretending he doesn't exist since he won't for the Wolves soon.

That's the sad part in all of this. I love watching Jimmy Butler play with this Wolves team. It's such a treat to watch what he brings to the court - his talent of course, but even more so, the sheer joy he displays on the court. And yet, I have to remind myself that at some point, perhaps as early as this Friday, I won't see him with this team anymore. That's the problem with this purgatory we're in right now with Butler's trade demand hovering over us.

Watching what Jimmy does for this team, I definitely get why some like LST simply say they'd like to see us roll with Jimmy this season rather than accept the return we'd likely get in a market that seems pretty cold when it comes to Butler's value. As I've said, there's a part of me is similarly inclined, but I know I'd be setting myself up for disappointment. Yet, it was especially fun to see Butler on the court tonight with Okogie. Put Butler on the court with Okogie, Tyus, Taj and KAT (with his noticeable defensive improvement so far this season) and you'd have a heck of a good defensive lineup on the floor. Oh, and they'd be able to put some points on the board as well.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Well our bench is much improved in 4 games.

Is the bench actually better or is it that Thibs is doing a better job staggering his starters? I mean, he's got Butler out there playing with them for a good chunk of minutes, something we didn't really see last season.

Rose has been better than Crawford so far, I will say that. Other than Crawford, I just don't think our bench was as bad as they may have seemed last year.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Well our bench is much improved in 4 games.

Is the bench actually better or is it that Thibs is doing a better job staggering his starters? I mean, he's got Butler out there playing with them for a good chunk of minutes, something we didn't really see last season.

Rose has been better than Crawford so far, I will say that. Other than Crawford, I just don't think our bench was as bad as they may have seemed last year.

Maybe a little of both, Q, but i would argue the bench's success has more to do with Thibs finally using them appropriately than it does with their talent level. It's great to see how dominant our team can be with fresh legs in the 4th quarter when the bench out-minutes the opponent 98-85...I can count on one hand the times Thibs used his bench more than the opposing coach last year. Is the coach formerly known as the Barking Ogre finally starting to get it?

Great to read reports of how well Okogie played last night. The only concern I have is that it probably isn't a sustainable strategy for this team to have Josh leading the team in shot attempts...not his strength unfortunately (only 5-13 last night).

[thedoper]

Well our bench is much improved in 4 games.

Is the bench actually better or is it that Thibs is doing a better job staggering his starters? I mean, he's got Butler out there playing with them for a good chunk of minutes, something we didn't really see last season.

Rose has been better than Crawford so far, I will say that. Other than Crawford, I just don't think our bench was as bad as they may have seemed last year.

In 4 games Gorgui is playing better too. Thibs is certainly doing some things to influence that too. But yeah the pace established by Rose is exactly what you want if your bench can't shoot. It's been fun to see energy out of the second unit.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Well our bench is much improved in 4 games.

Is the bench actually better or is it that Thibs is doing a better job staggering his starters? I mean, he's got Butler out there playing with them for a good chunk of minutes, something we didn't really see last season.

Rose has been better than Crawford so far, I will say that. Other than Crawford, I just don't think our bench was as bad as they may have seemed last year.

Maybe a little of both, Q, but i would argue the bench's success has more to do with Thibs finally using them appropriately than it does with their talent level. It's great to see how dominant our team can be with fresh legs in the 4th quarter when the bench out-minutes the opponent 98-85...I can count on one hand the times Thibs used his bench more than the opposing coach last year. Is the coach formerly known as the Barking Ogre finally starting to get it?

Great to read reports of how well Okogie played last night. The only concern I have is that it probably isn't a sustainable strategy for this team to have Josh leading the team in shot attempts...not his strength unfortunately (only 5-13 last night).

As SP astutely observed in the game thread, we're probably overrating Okogie simply because he's the brand new toy. It's easy to give a guy that shows that much effort the benefit of the doubt, but he missed a lot of shots and also had a dumb unforced turnover when he let a pass to him slip right through his hands and out of bounds.

I will say this though....perhaps his energy and tone spill over to other players and in that sense he may be making a bigger difference than his stat line implies. That's where +/- can be instructive, but we need more time to fully assess him. Eye test wise, he's fun to watch, bad misses and all. If he still can't shoot in year 3, then he becomes Corey Brewer.

[Lipoli390]

Well our bench is much improved in 4 games.

Is the bench actually better or is it that Thibs is doing a better job staggering his starters? I mean, he's got Butler out there playing with them for a good chunk of minutes, something we didn't really see last season.

Rose has been better than Crawford so far, I will say that. Other than Crawford, I just don't think our bench was as bad as they may have seemed last year.

Maybe a little of both, Q, but i would argue the bench's success has more to do with Thibs finally using them appropriately than it does with their talent level. It's great to see how dominant our team can be with fresh legs in the 4th quarter when the bench out-minutes the opponent 98-85...I can count on one hand the times Thibs used his bench more than the opposing coach last year. Is the coach formerly known as the Barking Ogre finally starting to get it?

Great to read reports of how well Okogie played last night. The only concern I have is that it probably isn't a sustainable strategy for this team to have Josh leading the team in shot attempts...not his strength unfortunately (only 5-13 last night).

As SP astutely observed in the game thread, we're probably overrating Okogie simply because he's the brand new toy. It's easy to give a guy that shows that much effort the benefit of the doubt, but he missed a lot of shots and also had a dumb unforced turnover when he let a pass to him slip right through his hands and out of bounds.

I will say this though....perhaps his energy and tone spill over to other players and in that sense he may be making a bigger difference than his stat line implies. That's where +/- can be instructive, but we need more time to fully assess him. Eye test wise, he's fun to watch, bad misses and all. If he still can't shoot in year 3, then he becomes Corey Brewer.

I'm not overrating Okogie when I say he was a key to last night's win. The tone and trajectory of the game changed when he was in the game last night. He is such a disruptive force defensively. That's the main thing, but it doesn't stop there. He's also a terrific rebounder with a tremendous nose for the ball. What you don't see in the box score are all the loose balls he corralled. The turnover when he let the pass slip though his hands is an anomaly that isn't worth mentioning. That short of thing has happened to every NBA player. It's not as if those shorts of turnovers have been typical of Okogie in his limited minutes so far this season. Actually, one of his strengths I've observed are his hands. He has great hands that have allowed him to come come away with the ball in a crowd.

I'm confident his shot will come around. But even if it doesn't, I don't think the Brewer comparison is a particularly good one for a couple reasons. First, Okogie is actually a very good ballhandler, much better than Corey, aka, the drunk'n dribbler. Second, Okogie's defense isn't just steals and disruption; it's also staying in front of guys and challenging shots. Corey's game is strictly jumping passing lanes and disrupting. Otherwise, Corey's not actually a very good defender - or more specifically, Corey's not a complete defender. Marcus Smart is a much better comparison to Okogie.

[Monster]

Well our bench is much improved in 4 games.

Is the bench actually better or is it that Thibs is doing a better job staggering his starters? I mean, he's got Butler out there playing with them for a good chunk of minutes, something we didn't really see last season.

Rose has been better than Crawford so far, I will say that. Other than Crawford, I just don't think our bench was as bad as they may have seemed last year.

Maybe a little of both, Q, but i would argue the bench's success has more to do with Thibs finally using them appropriately than it does with their talent level. It's great to see how dominant our team can be with fresh legs in the 4th quarter when the bench out-minutes the opponent 98-85...I can count on one hand the times Thibs used his bench more than the opposing coach last year. Is the coach formerly known as the Barking Ogre finally starting to get it?

Great to read reports of how well Okogie played last night. The only concern I have is that it probably isn't a sustainable strategy for this team to have Josh leading the team in shot attempts...not his strength unfortunately (only 5-13 last night).

As SP astutely observed in the game thread, we're probably overrating Okogie simply because he's the brand new toy. It's easy to give a guy that shows that much effort the benefit of the doubt, but he missed a lot of shots and also had a dumb unforced turnover when he let a pass to him slip right through his hands and out of bounds.

I will say this though....perhaps his energy and tone spill over to other players and in that sense he may be making a bigger difference than his stat line implies. That's where +/- can be instructive, but we need more time to fully assess him. Eye test wise, he's fun to watch, bad misses and all. If he still can't shoot in year 3, then he becomes Corey Brewer.

I'm not overrating Okogie when I say he was a key to last night's win. The tone and trajectory of the game changed when he was in the game last night. He is such a disruptive force defensively. That's the main thing, but it doesn't stop there. He's also a terrific rebounder with a tremendous nose for the ball. What you don't see in the box score are all the loose balls he corralled. The turnover when he let the pass slip though his hands is an anomaly that isn't worth mentioning. That short of thing has happened to every NBA player. It's not as if those shorts of turnovers have been typical of Okogie in his limited minutes so far this season. Actually, one of his strengths I've observed are his hands. He has great hands that have allowed him to come come away with the ball in a crowd.

I'm confident his shot will come around. But even if it doesn't, I don't think the Brewer comparison is a particularly good one for a couple reasons. First, Okogie is actually a very good ballhandler, much better than Corey, aka, the drunk'n dribbler. Second, Okogie's defense isn't just steals and disruption; it's also staying in front of guys and challenging shots. Corey's game is strictly jumping passing lanes and disrupting. Otherwise, Corey's not actually a very good defender - or more specifically, Corey's not a complete defender. Marcus Smart is a much better comparison to Okogie.

Okogie has better physical tools than Brewer. He is stronger and not much less when it comes to length plus he has a little bit more when in comes to athletism. Okogie looks to have some of those basketball instincts that Brewer was supposed to have but never really had. Also It seems like people don't notice the guy passing the ball. He moves it quickly and if he does pass it on a drive it's usually on target.