What’s really going on?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Towns and Wiggins should be thanking Thibs and Butler because the dysfunction just bought them another year of external factors being the narrative for their lack of franchise player level of play.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

I think alot has to do with jimmy thinking hes the leader, but not knowing how to be the leader. So, its just do as i say or do without explanation. And when he gets frustrated, he goes on a tantrum because he doesnt know how to get the message across.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

People are continuing to talk about jimmy, wiggs, and KAT.

People are talking about how he and the 3rd string guys beat the starters. What about teague and Taj? why not throw them under the bus as well?

I find this tweet apt though.

"Thibs lost all of his remaining credibility today and no longer possesses the authority or leadership required of his position. We can focus on what Butler did at practice, or we can talk about what really matters: A strong leader would've never let this happen under their watch."

https://twitter.com/thedailywolf/status/1050226180216029190

If you can fix this and keep jimmy, try to mend it. But thibs needs to go. Can anyone see jimmy pulling this crap with Spoelstra? Pop? Stevens? Thibs didnt just let this go on, he endorsed it.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

*whispers*

For the good of the franchise, something like this probably needed to happen.

There are toxic pieces within the organization and changes that need to be made. Glen Taylor, Tom Thibodeau, Scott Layden, and Andrew Wiggins -- perhaps even Karl-Anthony Towns, though his talent, youth, and All-NBA production (most importantly) give him more leeway --all need to go for one reason or another. None of them are good for the franchise at this point.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Here's the most interesting comment from Jimmy:

A source of Butler's discontent is the bold claim that not everyone in the organization is committed to winning.

"I think that's the part everybody doesn't see," Butler said. "I'm not going to say no names. I'm going to be honest: If your No. 1 priority isn't winning, people can tell. That's the battle. Now there is a problem between people. That's where the disconnect is."

Showing up to practice doesn't appear to have resolved the issues he has with the team.

"It's not fixed," Butler told Nichols. "Let's be honest."

Asked it if could be fixed, he said: "It could be. Do I think so? No."

Maybe Jimmy's just putting on a show and spewing crap. On the other hand, maybe he's serious. If so, I wonder who those people are Butler won't name. I doubt it's Thibodeau. Is it Layden? Is it Taylor? Is it others in the front office? Is it Wiggins and Towns? Who else? And what does he mean when he says "it could be fixed" ? What would it mean to be "fixed"? Does it mean that KAT or Wiggins (maybe both) need to be traded?

I'm going to take a stab in the dark at deciphering what Butler means and what ultimately led to his trade demand. I'm convinced he told Thibodeau and Layden at least as far back as last April that he wanted the organization to deal KAT and Wiggins and build around him a team of players to his liking. He probably included a new max contract in his list of demands, which would go hand and hand with trading Wiggins and KAT. Thibodeau clearly told him no and told him to be patient and that he'd change his mind after playing out the season. That obviously wasn't enough for Jimmy.

Lip, do you have evidence behind this stab in the dark? It's a pretty strong claim, and I'd be surprised if Butler had explicitly demanded the team trade both Wiggins and KAT.

We don't know what happened with precision. It is fair to say based on what we've heard that Jimmy expressed displeasure about the team to Thibs at the end of last season, and that the two of them interpreted Jimmy's comments differently.

I don't know about anything specific, but I'd say probably both are partly to blame. Jimmy often speaks emotionally and in extreme terms and it probably wasn't the first time he had criticized the rest of the team to Thibs. So Thibs might understandably have been prepared to interpret Butler's criticism after the year as another rant. At the same time, Thibs is stubborn and sees what he wants to see, and he clearly wants to see Butler play for him. So I can also imagine Thibs unconsciously selectively hearing Butler's comments over the summer and not interpreting them as a trade demand until the Butler made it explicit right before training camp. That Jimmy-Thibs miscommunication is at the core of our predicament, and my best guess is that both guys are responsible in the ways I mentioned above.

[Lipoli390]

Here's the most interesting comment from Jimmy:

A source of Butler's discontent is the bold claim that not everyone in the organization is committed to winning.

"I think that's the part everybody doesn't see," Butler said. "I'm not going to say no names. I'm going to be honest: If your No. 1 priority isn't winning, people can tell. That's the battle. Now there is a problem between people. That's where the disconnect is."

Showing up to practice doesn't appear to have resolved the issues he has with the team.

"It's not fixed," Butler told Nichols. "Let's be honest."

Asked it if could be fixed, he said: "It could be. Do I think so? No."

Maybe Jimmy's just putting on a show and spewing crap. On the other hand, maybe he's serious. If so, I wonder who those people are Butler won't name. I doubt it's Thibodeau. Is it Layden? Is it Taylor? Is it others in the front office? Is it Wiggins and Towns? Who else? And what does he mean when he says "it could be fixed" ? What would it mean to be "fixed"? Does it mean that KAT or Wiggins (maybe both) need to be traded?

I'm going to take a stab in the dark at deciphering what Butler means and what ultimately led to his trade demand. I'm convinced he told Thibodeau and Layden at least as far back as last April that he wanted the organization to deal KAT and Wiggins and build around him a team of players to his liking. He probably included a new max contract in his list of demands, which would go hand and hand with trading Wiggins and KAT. Thibodeau clearly told him no and told him to be patient and that he'd change his mind after playing out the season. That obviously wasn't enough for Jimmy.

Lip, do you have evidence behind this stab in the dark? It's a pretty strong claim, and I'd be surprised if Butler had explicitly demanded the team trade both Wiggins and KAT.

We don't know what happened with precision. It is fair to say based on what we've heard that Jimmy expressed displeasure about the team to Thibs at the end of last season, and that the two of them interpreted Jimmy's comments differently.

I don't know about anything specific, but I'd say probably both are partly to blame. Jimmy often speaks emotionally and in extreme terms and it probably wasn't the first time he had criticized the rest of the team to Thibs. So Thibs might understandably have been prepared to interpret Butler's criticism after the year as another rant. At the same time, Thibs is stubborn and sees what he wants to see, and he clearly wants to see Butler play for him. So I can also imagine Thibs unconsciously selectively hearing Butler's comments over the summer and not interpreting them as a trade demand until the Butler made it explicit right before training camp. That Jimmy-Thibs miscommunication is at the core of our predicament, and my best guess is that both guys are responsible in the ways I mentioned above.

A stab in the dark would, of course, mean I don't have evidence.

But back to the main issue. There is no excuse for Thibodeau not seeing this coming or at least anticipating it as a real possibility and getting it resolved definitively back in June. I don't like that Butler demanded a trade and I hate the timing of his demand. But Butler had to be telling Thibodeau things repeatedly that foreshadowed his demand. There is simply no way the demand came out of the blue to anyone paying attention and responsible enough to recognize what they were hearing. As we've seen, Jimmyis not one to keep things to himself and then explode. He is constantly talking and telling you what he thinks. He was expressing his frustration to reporters as we all saw months ago. Hell, I knew a couple months ago that we were in trouble with Butler, which is why I wanted to trade him back in June. So this is ALL on Thibodeau.

[Lipoli390]

People are continuing to talk about jimmy, wiggs, and KAT.

People are talking about how he and the 3rd string guys beat the starters. What about teague and Taj? why not throw them under the bus as well?

I find this tweet apt though.

"Thibs lost all of his remaining credibility today and no longer possesses the authority or leadership required of his position. We can focus on what Butler did at practice, or we can talk about what really matters: A strong leader would've never let this happen under their watch."

https://twitter.com/thedailywolf/status/1050226180216029190

If you can fix this and keep jimmy, try to mend it. But thibs needs to go. Can anyone see jimmy pulling this crap with Spoelstra? Pop? Stevens? Thibs didnt just let this go on, he endorsed it.

This tweet is right on the mark. Thibodeau is has just fallen from really bad to pathetic in my estimation.

[Monster]

IF...........you want to give Thibs the benefit of the doubt you could say when Butler said how he was feeling after the season etc it may have seemed about the contract and money more than anything. Jimmy said himself Thibs may have heard what he wanted to hear. IF...........Thins really thought the biggest issue was the money and contract then his actions make a ton of sense. He knew he could pay him more than anyone else after this season and thought there was plenty of reasons these things could be worked out. I'm not suggesting Thibs didn't F%#@ up because regardless at some point he did and has I just want to understand (or at least try and process this in my own mind) where he was coming from. It sounds like to me that if they had done something different Jimmy would have stayed here so...he hasn't exactly been demanding being out he was demanding he gets this this and this or this isn't going to work...and maybe it won't work anyway. Regardless it's a very bad deal and blame goes around and Thibs gets a pile of it.

I'll say this I think there was some info out there that some people held off on both to give Thibs and Butler the benefit of the doubt and hoped it would end better than it did. Maybe I'm giving some media folks too much credit but I also was willing to give the situation the benefit of the doubt because we didn't have anything absolutely spelled out for us. We have Butler saying what he said and Jon K reporting pretty similar stuff. It's very damning of Thibs and Layden AND Glen...oh and Butler too.

[60WinTim]

I never really liked soap operas. And now here we are: "As the Wolf Turns..."

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

Thibs thinks that he and Butler have a Brady/Belichik thing going on....sad.