Q12543 wrote:I can't believe Butler would come back to the squad. And even if he did, there is no chance we'd be as good as last season. Heck, we think Wiggins is checked out now, wait until Butler comes back. He'll melt into the woodwork never to be seen again. KAT may too.
Yeah, it does seem weird, doesn't it? I mean, most of us have moved on, and haven't really considered the possibility of Butler wearing a Wolves jersey again. But the deals on the table are crap, in my opinion, and neither Thibs nor Glen want to make a dumb deal. And Jimmy is a basketball junkie who also wants to get paid, and Woj reported a few days ago that Butler isn't going to miss any regular season games. So absent a substantially better offer appeating in the next 9 days, I expect Butler to be back on the court in San Antonio with his good friends Karl and Andrew.
So, how will the team perform? I don't agree that there is no chance we'd be as good as last year. Yes, there will be discord, but it's not unprecedented for teammates to hate each other and still perform. Wig might even start fogging a mirror just out of spite to "show Jimmy" he has some heart. I'm on record as saying this is a 45-48 win team with Butler on the court, but they could be much better. There's no question in my mind that the bench is much better...Tolliver, Okogie, KBD, and Deng replace Belly, Aldrich, Crawford, Bazz and that hyphenated guy. That's gotta be a huge improvement, doesn't it?
So, I still want Thibs to be let go, an interim coach like Saunders to be promoted while Glen searches for the next POBO, and Butler to be traded for a good return. But neither the Wolves nor their trading partners seem desperate to make a deal. So, I think we need to prepare ourselves for the circus that will be the Return of Jimmy. At least we know we can hold an opponent under 120 points is he comes back...Thibs has shown he can't do that without Jimmy.
Oh, I agree we are a better team with Butler than without. I just don't think we'd be as good as last year. I think we'd be .500-ish. Every year (seemingly) I hear on this board how much better our bench is going to be and it never materializes. While I think there are things to be encouraged by with our two rookies, they are still rookies. Tyus looks really out of sort without a 2nd ball handler and if that 2nd guy ends up being Rose, well, I have no more confidence in him than I did in Jamal Crawford. And Dieng looks as porous on defense as ever. Yuck, yuck, yuck.
I think it's also worth mentioning that Butler may actually not be 100% or even if he is now he won't be in the same game shape as other players. He might take a couple or even 5 games to get to his high level of play. I seriously doubt we are going to get to that point if the reports of a deal being relatively close with Miami were true. It sure doesn't hurt to send Butler out east especially with some West teams having some injuries already.
crazy-canuck wrote:Anyone think that thibs told tyus to be more of a scorer than a distributor to get more minutes and possibly a new contract?
We all know thibs loves his diminutive scoring pgs off the bench.
Dieng, Tolliver, Okogie, and KDB....none of those guys are real shot creators or play makers, so it puts a lot more pressure on Tyus to get to the hoop and make some plays. It's just not happening for him, as he is missing a lot of shots and turning the ball over more than usual.
Believe me, if Thibs had his way, Butler would be starting and Rose would be coming off the bench with Tyus and taking on a much bigger role in running the offense, like Crawford last year (for better or for worse).
crazy-canuck wrote:Anyone think that thibs told tyus to be more of a scorer than a distributor to get more minutes and possibly a new contract?
We all know thibs loves his diminutive scoring pgs off the bench.
Dieng, Tolliver, Okogie, and KDB....none of those guys are real shot creators or play makers, so it puts a lot more pressure on Tyus to get to the hoop and make some plays. It's just not happening for him, as he is missing a lot of shots and turning the ball over more than usual.
Believe me, if Thibs had his way, Butler would be starting and Rose would be coming off the bench with Tyus and taking on a much bigger role in running the offense, like Crawford last year (for better or for worse).
Then why not put Tyus in with the starters and let Teague play his F'ing iso game with the bench?
crazy-canuck wrote:Anyone think that thibs told tyus to be more of a scorer than a distributor to get more minutes and possibly a new contract?
We all know thibs loves his diminutive scoring pgs off the bench.
Dieng, Tolliver, Okogie, and KDB....none of those guys are real shot creators or play makers, so it puts a lot more pressure on Tyus to get to the hoop and make some plays. It's just not happening for him, as he is missing a lot of shots and turning the ball over more than usual.
Believe me, if Thibs had his way, Butler would be starting and Rose would be coming off the bench with Tyus and taking on a much bigger role in running the offense, like Crawford last year (for better or for worse).
Then why not put Tyus in with the starters and let Teague play his F'ing iso game with the bench?
It's not Teague's iso game. He was an all-star in ATL under Bud's ball movement focused offense. Thibs wants his PG's to do everything. They need to be the focal point of the offense and score and assist all the time like prime MVP Rose. Teague actually isn't that guy and that's why it doesn't work well. The ball handlers on Thibs teams create everything and we lost our only real ball handler who does that at a high level in Jimmy. Thibs needs Kyrie esque guys to have an effective offense and his current team doesn't have anyone who fits that profile. That's why Wiggins only touches balls in cases of emergency and Towns only gets some touches in the post. Our offense isn't built for them. That's one of the actual problems with Thibs. He's a defensive coach. He should have an offensive guy running the offense and leave the defense to him.
I feel compelled to go off on a 2,000-word rant why I find it ludicrous to think Glen Taylor is a great owner (former incompetent employees may not be the best judges for that.) But I don't think it'll be good for anybody.
The Wolves franchise is the 2nd worst in NBA history... mostly overseen by Glen Taylor. I give the Clippers the lead because of their longer history and Sterling's overt racism.
But the Wolves mostly have stunk. And to absolve the owner of that despite very obvious decisions from him that directly led to that? No. I can't do that. Nobody should.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I feel compelled to go off on a 2,000-word rant why I find it ludicrous to think Glen Taylor is a great owner (former incompetent employees may not be the best judges for that.) But I don't think it'll be good for anybody.
The Wolves franchise is the 2nd worst in NBA history... mostly overseen by Glen Taylor. I give the Clippers the lead because of their longer history and Sterling's overt racism.
But the Wolves mostly have stunk. And to absolve the owner of that despite very obvious decisions from him that directly led to that? No. I can't do that. Nobody should.
Nobody is arguing Glen is a good owner (at least an hope not). It's if he is the worst owner in the NBA or sports or...yeah you are right this isn't good for anybody.
crazy-canuck wrote:Anyone think that thibs told tyus to be more of a scorer than a distributor to get more minutes and possibly a new contract?
We all know thibs loves his diminutive scoring pgs off the bench.
Dieng, Tolliver, Okogie, and KDB....none of those guys are real shot creators or play makers, so it puts a lot more pressure on Tyus to get to the hoop and make some plays. It's just not happening for him, as he is missing a lot of shots and turning the ball over more than usual.
Believe me, if Thibs had his way, Butler would be starting and Rose would be coming off the bench with Tyus and taking on a much bigger role in running the offense, like Crawford last year (for better or for worse).
Then why not put Tyus in with the starters and let Teague play his F'ing iso game with the bench?
It's not Teague's iso game. He was an all-star in ATL under Bud's ball movement focused offense. Thibs wants his PG's to do everything. They need to be the focal point of the offense and score and assist all the time like prime MVP Rose. Teague actually isn't that guy and that's why it doesn't work well. The ball handlers on Thibs teams create everything and we lost our only real ball handler who does that at a high level in Jimmy. Thibs needs Kyrie esque guys to have an effective offense and his current team doesn't have anyone who fits that profile. That's why Wiggins only touches balls in cases of emergency and Towns only gets some touches in the post. Our offense isn't built for them. That's one of the actual problems with Thibs. He's a defensive coach. He should have an offensive guy running the offense and leave the defense to him.
...not completely true. In Thibs' last couple of seasons with the Bulls, Joakim Noah led the team in assists. They ran a ton of sets through him. So yes, I agree he likes scoring PGs, but it's not like he is incapable of figuring out other ways to run an offense. And ironically, for a coach so renowned for his defense, his current team sucks at it.
I think Teague would be more effective if he had a couple shooters next to him. But he has never quite looked comfortable with guys like Rose, Butler, and Wiggins - none of whom really spread the floor.
(The mildly irritating thing about Teague is his weave pattern upon taking a pick. He often weaves back from whence he came and his screen setter isn't quite sure where to go to find the open space and you end up essentially with two of our guys right next to each other in the paint!)
Q12543 wrote:I can't believe Butler would come back to the squad. And even if he did, there is no chance we'd be as good as last season. Heck, we think Wiggins is checked out now, wait until Butler comes back. He'll melt into the woodwork never to be seen again. KAT may too.
Yeah, it does seem weird, doesn't it? I mean, most of us have moved on, and haven't really considered the possibility of Butler wearing a Wolves jersey again. But the deals on the table are crap, in my opinion, and neither Thibs nor Glen want to make a dumb deal. And Jimmy is a basketball junkie who also wants to get paid, and Woj reported a few days ago that Butler isn't going to miss any regular season games. So absent a substantially better offer appeating in the next 9 days, I expect Butler to be back on the court in San Antonio with his good friends Karl and Andrew.
So, how will the team perform? I don't agree that there is no chance we'd be as good as last year. Yes, there will be discord, but it's not unprecedented for teammates to hate each other and still perform. Wig might even start fogging a mirror just out of spite to "show Jimmy" he has some heart. I'm on record as saying this is a 45-48 win team with Butler on the court, but they could be much better. There's no question in my mind that the bench is much better...Tolliver, Okogie, KBD, and Deng replace Belly, Aldrich, Crawford, Bazz and that hyphenated guy. That's gotta be a huge improvement, doesn't it?
So, I still want Thibs to be let go, an interim coach like Saunders to be promoted while Glen searches for the next POBO, and Butler to be traded for a good return. But neither the Wolves nor their trading partners seem desperate to make a deal. So, I think we need to prepare ourselves for the circus that will be the Return of Jimmy. At least we know we can hold an opponent under 120 points is he comes back...Thibs has shown he can't do that without Jimmy.
Send Jimmy to the D league and play him max minutes. Problem solved.
