CoolBreeze44 wrote:In retrospect the Butler trade was a very dark day in a littany of dark days for this franchise. Another was the hire of Thibs. It would be hard to fuck things up this bad on purpose.
Nah. The Butler trade is still to this day one of the better days this team has had. Regardless of what has transpired, that was the "finally, take us seriously" move.
I'm not necessarily sure anyone would be happier with not making that trade and watching the team still fail to progress.
Wrong move, wrong time. I used to say right move at the wrong time. I've changed my mind on that. He's a cancer. The most enjoyable thing would be watching him try to fit in with the Rockets. That is a disaster waiting to happen.
It wasn't the wrong move at the wrong time. If it wasn't the right time, when was it ever gonna be time? If 13 straight seasons without the playoffs wasn't gonna trigger action, nothing was gonna do it.
If anything, we've learned a lot more about the players on this team because of Butler than if we kept the status quo.
I don't think we would found out that KAT is soft mentally and has a figurative glass jaw. I don't think we would have learned how disconnected Wiggins is from leading anything. I don't think we would have realized just how out of touch Thibs is with reality. I think we would have given him more of a leash BECAUSE the team was so young and had such young talent. I think fans would have been more in denial of that situation because fans were more emotionally invested in that young core panning out when it probably wasn't gonna do much more than what this team did.
They made the playoffs. It sucks that this is the goal, but we're talking about the Wolves here. Is Jimmy a cancer? Probably. But he'll be gone soon. If Thibs a cancer? Yes. He MIGHT be gone soon. Is Glen a cancer? Yes, and he's not going anywhere. This is the harsh reality of this organization.
The 13 years doesn't equate in a correct move timeline. If it was 5 years, okay. 10, okay. 15, okay.
You dont make a deal just to make a deal. It wasn't the right time nor the right deal. That's proven now. I'd rather wait and suffer through 3-5 more years to make the right deal than have to revert to the low Timberwolves mean..
It wasn't a deal to make a deal. All we heard was "they have a young team. They could use a veteran to help lead them." Without the Butler trade we'd still be saying this. Hell, when was it gonna be a good time? After the team had gone into the luxury tax to keep LaVine/Wiggins/Towns together and not sniff a playoff appearance?
My point is that team wasn't gonna do much more than this team did, and maybe not even as much as this team did. Now, this team is gonna be more gun shy than ever to ever go outside of their comfort zone to hire front office people, to make a trade for a proven star, to get the hotshot coach. This team is gonna be more insular than ever, which wouldn't be the worst thing, IF this team could actually decide they wanna be good at developing talent from within, but they don't. Until they do, nothing is gonna change, and without the trade, nothing WAS gonna change. The funny thing is that I think LaVine would have reacted a lot better to the antics Jimmy brings than KAT and Wiggins have.
Why do I feel your comment is playing both sides of the fence?
We jumped the gun with the trade. Now it has backfired. I'm not sure why it's so difficult to accept for many here. You either suck until you don't, or you become what we are. A mixed up, middling team panicking to recollect lesser assets to attempt to save face.
It was an educated gamble. If Kat took the necessary steps and Wiggins took the necessary steps they are going to need to take no matter who is around them we would be a contender next year at the latest. This could be the warriors last year of dominance with all of the Durant leaving rumors.
We could of had a top 15 player in butler, best center in towns and an all star in Wiggins. It didn't work, but it was worth the gamble. Now here we are.
I had misgivings about the trade and I expressed them at the time - namely Butler's injury history, the mismatch between his age and the age of our core young talent, and Butler's history of alienating teammates in Chicago. Nevertheless, I agree the deal was an educated gamble and my critique of the deal at the time was pretty mild with a number of positive takes as well. If I had been in Thibodeau's place, I would not have made that deal. As I see it, hindsight tells us it was a bad deal for the Wolves. However, most observers thought it was a great deal for MN at the time and I see that side of it. The real problem lies, not so much in the deal, but in how Butler's situation was subsequently handled by Thibodeau.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:In retrospect the Butler trade was a very dark day in a littany of dark days for this franchise. Another was the hire of Thibs. It would be hard to fuck things up this bad on purpose.
Nah. The Butler trade is still to this day one of the better days this team has had. Regardless of what has transpired, that was the "finally, take us seriously" move.
I'm not necessarily sure anyone would be happier with not making that trade and watching the team still fail to progress.
Wrong move, wrong time. I used to say right move at the wrong time. I've changed my mind on that. He's a cancer. The most enjoyable thing would be watching him try to fit in with the Rockets. That is a disaster waiting to happen.
It wasn't the wrong move at the wrong time. If it wasn't the right time, when was it ever gonna be time? If 13 straight seasons without the playoffs wasn't gonna trigger action, nothing was gonna do it.
If anything, we've learned a lot more about the players on this team because of Butler than if we kept the status quo.
I don't think we would found out that KAT is soft mentally and has a figurative glass jaw. I don't think we would have learned how disconnected Wiggins is from leading anything. I don't think we would have realized just how out of touch Thibs is with reality. I think we would have given him more of a leash BECAUSE the team was so young and had such young talent. I think fans would have been more in denial of that situation because fans were more emotionally invested in that young core panning out when it probably wasn't gonna do much more than what this team did.
They made the playoffs. It sucks that this is the goal, but we're talking about the Wolves here. Is Jimmy a cancer? Probably. But he'll be gone soon. If Thibs a cancer? Yes. He MIGHT be gone soon. Is Glen a cancer? Yes, and he's not going anywhere. This is the harsh reality of this organization.
The 13 years doesn't equate in a correct move timeline. If it was 5 years, okay. 10, okay. 15, okay.
You dont make a deal just to make a deal. It wasn't the right time nor the right deal. That's proven now. I'd rather wait and suffer through 3-5 more years to make the right deal than have to revert to the low Timberwolves mean..
It wasn't a deal to make a deal. All we heard was "they have a young team. They could use a veteran to help lead them." Without the Butler trade we'd still be saying this. Hell, when was it gonna be a good time? After the team had gone into the luxury tax to keep LaVine/Wiggins/Towns together and not sniff a playoff appearance?
My point is that team wasn't gonna do much more than this team did, and maybe not even as much as this team did. Now, this team is gonna be more gun shy than ever to ever go outside of their comfort zone to hire front office people, to make a trade for a proven star, to get the hotshot coach. This team is gonna be more insular than ever, which wouldn't be the worst thing, IF this team could actually decide they wanna be good at developing talent from within, but they don't. Until they do, nothing is gonna change, and without the trade, nothing WAS gonna change. The funny thing is that I think LaVine would have reacted a lot better to the antics Jimmy brings than KAT and Wiggins have.
Why do I feel your comment is playing both sides of the fence?
We jumped the gun with the trade. Now it has backfired. I'm not sure why it's so difficult to accept for many here. You either suck until you don't, or you become what we are. A mixed up, middling team panicking to recollect lesser assets to attempt to save face.
It was an educated gamble. If Kat took the necessary steps and Wiggins took the necessary steps they are going to need to take no matter who is around them we would be a contender next year at the latest. This could be the warriors last year of dominance with all of the Durant leaving rumors.
We could of had a top 15 player in butler, best center in towns and an all star in Wiggins. It didn't work, but it was worth the gamble. Now here we are.
I had misgivings about the trade and I expressed them at the time - namely Butler's injury history, the mismatch between his age and the age of our core young talent, and Butler's history of alienating teammates in Chicago. Nevertheless, I agree the deal was an educated gamble and my critique of the deal at the time was pretty mild with a number of positive takes as well. If I had been in Thibodeau's place, I would not have made that deal. As I see it, hindsight tells us it was a bad deal for the Wolves. However, most observers thought it was a great deal for MN at the time and I see that side of it. The real problem lies, not so much in the deal, but in how Butler's situation was subsequently handled by Thibodeau.
I get your point. I still make the trade. We might be bitching about lavine, Dunn and markannan if the trade never happened. And it could also not be fun.
In the end even though I think he has made bad decisions. All of this toxic nature of the organization makes me miss flip so much.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:In retrospect the Butler trade was a very dark day in a littany of dark days for this franchise. Another was the hire of Thibs. It would be hard to fuck things up this bad on purpose.
Nah. The Butler trade is still to this day one of the better days this team has had. Regardless of what has transpired, that was the "finally, take us seriously" move.
I'm not necessarily sure anyone would be happier with not making that trade and watching the team still fail to progress.
Wrong move, wrong time. I used to say right move at the wrong time. I've changed my mind on that. He's a cancer. The most enjoyable thing would be watching him try to fit in with the Rockets. That is a disaster waiting to happen.
It wasn't the wrong move at the wrong time. If it wasn't the right time, when was it ever gonna be time? If 13 straight seasons without the playoffs wasn't gonna trigger action, nothing was gonna do it.
If anything, we've learned a lot more about the players on this team because of Butler than if we kept the status quo.
I don't think we would found out that KAT is soft mentally and has a figurative glass jaw. I don't think we would have learned how disconnected Wiggins is from leading anything. I don't think we would have realized just how out of touch Thibs is with reality. I think we would have given him more of a leash BECAUSE the team was so young and had such young talent. I think fans would have been more in denial of that situation because fans were more emotionally invested in that young core panning out when it probably wasn't gonna do much more than what this team did.
They made the playoffs. It sucks that this is the goal, but we're talking about the Wolves here. Is Jimmy a cancer? Probably. But he'll be gone soon. If Thibs a cancer? Yes. He MIGHT be gone soon. Is Glen a cancer? Yes, and he's not going anywhere. This is the harsh reality of this organization.
The 13 years doesn't equate in a correct move timeline. If it was 5 years, okay. 10, okay. 15, okay.
You dont make a deal just to make a deal. It wasn't the right time nor the right deal. That's proven now. I'd rather wait and suffer through 3-5 more years to make the right deal than have to revert to the low Timberwolves mean..
It wasn't a deal to make a deal. All we heard was "they have a young team. They could use a veteran to help lead them." Without the Butler trade we'd still be saying this. Hell, when was it gonna be a good time? After the team had gone into the luxury tax to keep LaVine/Wiggins/Towns together and not sniff a playoff appearance?
My point is that team wasn't gonna do much more than this team did, and maybe not even as much as this team did. Now, this team is gonna be more gun shy than ever to ever go outside of their comfort zone to hire front office people, to make a trade for a proven star, to get the hotshot coach. This team is gonna be more insular than ever, which wouldn't be the worst thing, IF this team could actually decide they wanna be good at developing talent from within, but they don't. Until they do, nothing is gonna change, and without the trade, nothing WAS gonna change. The funny thing is that I think LaVine would have reacted a lot better to the antics Jimmy brings than KAT and Wiggins have.
Why do I feel your comment is playing both sides of the fence?
We jumped the gun with the trade. Now it has backfired. I'm not sure why it's so difficult to accept for many here. You either suck until you don't, or you become what we are. A mixed up, middling team panicking to recollect lesser assets to attempt to save face.
It was an educated gamble. If Kat took the necessary steps and Wiggins took the necessary steps they are going to need to take no matter who is around them we would be a contender next year at the latest. This could be the warriors last year of dominance with all of the Durant leaving rumors.
We could of had a top 15 player in butler, best center in towns and an all star in Wiggins. It didn't work, but it was worth the gamble. Now here we are.
I had misgivings about the trade and I expressed them at the time - namely Butler's injury history, the mismatch between his age and the age of our core young talent, and Butler's history of alienating teammates in Chicago. Nevertheless, I agree the deal was an educated gamble and my critique of the deal at the time was pretty mild with a number of positive takes as well. If I had been in Thibodeau's place, I would not have made that deal. As I see it, hindsight tells us it was a bad deal for the Wolves. However, most observers thought it was a great deal for MN at the time and I see that side of it. The real problem lies, not so much in the deal, but in how Butler's situation was subsequently handled by Thibodeau.
I get your point. I still make the trade. We might be bitching about lavine, Dunn and markannan if the trade never happened. And it could also not be fun.
In the end even though I think he has made bad decisions. All of this toxic nature of the organization makes me miss flip so much.
R.I.P man
I agree. Here's to Flip and the fun, positive vibe he brought to this organization.
Without Butler here last year both Wiggins and KAT would have needed to continue to take the load and it is much more likely that we have a less toxic environment for the team to improve upon. Would KAT be playing as poorly now? I really don't think so to be honest. His game and attitude seemed to tank when the Butler feud started.
Butler with in his two years here (which seems to be less likely now) was never going to lead this team over the Rockets or GSW. Wasn't going to happen. I knew it then. That's all I care about. Sneaking into the playoffs was a bit of fun, but I'd rather miss the playoffs, roll the dice and hope to get more talent in the draft. Play the long game for a hopeful bigger payoff down the road.
For those saying we'd be over the cap, well you certainly didn't need to sign Taj or extend Dieng for that matter. Even the Teague "upgrade" over Rubio cost money. That hasn't been real good either.
WolvesFan21 wrote:Without Butler here last year both Wiggins and KAT would have needed to continue to take the load and it is much more likely that we have a less toxic environment for the team to improve upon. Would KAT be playing as poorly now? I really don't think so to be honest. His game and attitude seemed to tank when the Butler feud started.
Butler with in his two years here (which seems to be less likely now) was never going to lead this team over the Rockets or GSW. Wasn't going to happen. I knew it then. That's all I care about. Sneaking into the playoffs was a bit of fun, but I'd rather miss the playoffs, roll the dice and hope to get more talent in the draft. Play the long game for a hopeful bigger payoff down the road.
For those saying we'd be over the cap, well you certainly didn't need to sign Taj or extend Dieng for that matter. Even the Teague "upgrade" over Rubio cost money. That hasn't been real good either.
