longstrangetrip wrote:crazy-canuck wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Q12543 wrote:Camden wrote:I'm less worried and more disappointed by Towns. I personally thought he was a lot more mentally tough and overall just not a soft player, but he's making me rethink things with how he's acted throughout these last couple months and even back to the playoffs.
Your best player should be your most confident and most unshakable. If the drama from a teammate wanting out can make him go from an All-NBA player to a mediocre big, how is he supposed to handle the rigors of the playoffs and going toe to toe with the best when it matters most?
We have to take the gloves off with these guys and stop babying them. They are professional athletes getting paid the maximum amount of dollars for the foreseeable future. As far as I can tell, Jimmy Butler has exposed this entire franchise for what it is -- SOFT and WEAK.
Cleaning house has been on my mind a lot lately, and that includes everyone except for Josh Okogie. He's the only potential core member who I have unwavering confidence about in terms of him not being a pussy.
Frankly, he looks depressed to me. If you hate your coach and have a co-worker that has done everything in his power to embarrass you, I can see how things may affect his play and attitude. On the other hand....DO YOUR JOB!!! I don't know...I'm on the fence with this one. And I don't think things get solved by trading Butler. He has zero chemistry with Teague and Thibs is still coach. It's disappointing no matter what angle you take on this situation.
Q - I agree that KAT looks depressed. You use of that word got me thinking. A NBA players have spoken out of the past year about mental health issues and the fact that the NBA isn't immune to mental health issues that affect the broader society. So maybe we should take a step back and think about this a little before we (myself included) chirp into our iPads or desktops and boldly tell KAT to suck it up. As you mentioned, if I had a negative, oppressive disconnected boss who I couldn't stand and a co-worker doing everything in his power to embarrass me, I'd have a hard time doing my job. Most people under those circumstances would look hard for another job. I know I would. In the meantime, I'd still come to work and do my job, but not nearly as well as I would without those two workplace burdens weighing on me. And let's not forget that Towns is only 23 fricking years old. Note also that Butler did sleep with KAT's former girlfriend. I confirmed that with a guy who knows Butler pretty well. That guy told me Butler is one of the League's biggest assholes/primma donnas and that almost no one around the League likes him. But that shouldn't shock anyone when you read what other players like Rondo have said about him.
So yes, Towns looks and probably is emotionally down or perhaps even depressed. Given his workplace environment, that's not surprising. Yet, Towns is still showing up every day and working, he's just not performing up to the high standard he's set for himself over the past three years. Under the circumstances, that shouldn't be surprising and no different from the way most of us would react, especially back when we were 23 years old. Towns held out on signing his extension probably because he was contemplating getting out of here just as most of us would be inclined to get a different job to escape a lousy work environment. And no doubt Glen assured him that Butler would be gone. Well, Butler's still here.
Yes, a similar situation would probably not have negatively affected players like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. But as a former Chicago resident and Bulls fan, I certainly remember how sensitive Scottie Pippen was and how he'd get down and suffer headaches when he was stressed. I remember him looking depressed. At times earlier in his career, he'd get stressed to the point where he'd play poorly or in some cases decline to play at all. He was ridiculed by Chicago press for being weak-minded at the time. Well guess what, that weak-minded player ended up having a hall-of-fame career.
Thibodeau has allowed and, to a great extent created, a terrible work environment throughout the organization. I can see it extending beyond the basketball operations department who feel shut out by the basketball operations department in ways they never have before. I see it on the bench at games and we all see it on the court. The mere fact that Thibodeau stood by and watched Butler act out without intervening in that infamous practice is so telling. And Butler is still here. Thibodeau is still here. The negative, joyless, truly bizarre atmosphere persists at 600 North 1st Avenue. I get depressed just being there. It would be the rare person indeed who wouldn't get down as a player under these these circumstances.
So let's lighten up a bit on the "suck it up KAT" rhetoric. There are serious organizational problems that have to be addressed. Fix the work environment and good things will follow. Fail to address those problems and we'll continue to see what we've been seeing from KAT and the rest of the team. Even Okogie seemed to lose steam pretty quickly after coming in last night. No one is totally immune from this sort of infectious negativity.
Is it possible that taylor and thibs dont know that butler slept with kats gf?
I mean wtf does that say about an organization that they decide to side with butler and tell the young cornerstone to suck it up?
Maybe that's why wiggs got his gf pregnant, maybe jimmy was prowling there too.
Possible? Sure, I don't think anyone knows that Butler slept with her except for Butler and the GF...unless someone was in the room with them when the alleged offense happened. but you can rest assured that Taylor and Thibs know the rumors, just like we do, and maybe a bit more. Jimmy obviously doesn't like KAT, likely for childish money reasons, and it's not unlikely that he made the whole thing up just to mess with KAT. And if it actually happened, the GF was likely done with KAT and he is taking out his anger on Butler rather than a girl who snubbed him. Either way, KAT's poor play this season and lackadaisical appearance make me see him in a totally different light. I'm tired of all the excuse-making for KAT. He's unhappy because his GF slept with Butler, his teammates aren't giving him the ball, etc...give me a break. If you're 7 feet tall with great skills, you gotta make more than 43% of your shots (down from 54% last year)...maybe that's why his teammates aren't getting the ball to him inside. And he also needs to rebound like he did last year...he's down 2.8 RPG. I'm willing to ignore all the cringe-worthy platitudes he dishes out in interviews if he can just man up and play like he did in his first two years.
First and foremost, Thibs has to be shown the door...and a 30-point home loss might just be the impetus Glen needs to make a long-overdue problem. I hope we see Saunders named interim coach before the Laker game. Then the team has to deal with the Butler situation, and KAT has to grow up and play to his obvious potential. That's the only way this dismal season can be saved.
LST - You must mean play like he did the last 3 years - for 82 games a year. KAT has played poorly in 5 of the Wolves first 6 games this season - the first extended slump of his career. Meanwhile, He has to play for Thibodeau and be around Thibodeau's pet, Butler, who has dissed KAT both privately AND publicly with no intervention by the coach or organization. Taylor likely promised to trade Butler before KAT signed the extension, yet Butler's still here. Rondo said he can't imagine any player wanting to be anywhere near Butler, or something to that effect. Oh, and well-paid or not, KAT's still 23 years old. Against that backdrop, I think it's a bit hyperbolic to be at your wits end with KAT over a 5-game slump when considered in light of The other nearly 250 games he's played before this season at such a consistently high level. I'll note also that KAT actually appears to be protecting the rim better so far this season than he has in the past.
We both agree that Thibodeau is toxic and has to go. And I think you and I have probably seen enough basketball over the years to be familiar with examples of entire teams playing like KAT has been playing the last 6 games when the head coach has, as in this case, "lost the team." Thibodeau has clearly lost KAT. We have to understand that KAT doesn't have Michael Jordan's or Kobe Bryant's psyche. But as I mentioned earlier, neither did Scottie Pippen and he's a Hall-of-Farmer who was key to the Bulls winning 6 championships.
I'm not making excluses for KAT's slump. I'm attempting to explain it and put it in its proper context. We need a coach and a collection of players who can develop and succeed as a unit. Obviously, that's not going to happen with Butler and KAT. As for the problems between Butler and KAT, Butler's the one who publicly derided his teammates. He's the one who demanded a trade and he's the one who will leave after this year if not traded. As for Thibodeau and KAT, let's remember that the same, but less experienced, "soft" KAT and "lazy" Wiggins played .500 ball the last 30 games of the 2015-16 season under Sam Mitchell even though they were paired with a terrible defender named Zach LaVine and the poor-shooting Ricky Rubio. So let's get on with trading Butler and hiring a head coach who can effectively coach THIS team in TODAY's NBA. We already know that Sam Mitchell could get more out of our soft young players. Imagine what an even better head coach could do with those same still young but far more experienced players. And maybe we could hire a front office executive who signs a truly big defensive center or PF to play alongside KAT.
