thedoper wrote:The best trade partner for Wiggins will be Toronto next year after they lose Kawhi and they are going into rebuild mode. I'm sure if the Toronto plan fails Masai looks for a better opportunity anyway. There's no reason to trade him just yet as I see it. Continue to monitor his progress then when there's a chance to actually get some gains, make the trade. Wiggins has a depreciated value on the open market right now, selling at this point would be a horrible business decision.
...but you do realize his value could go down further? The only thing that has kept his value above some nominal figure is his age and athleticism (which we rarely see on display). But that is starting to fade as well now that we're 4+ years into his career with nothing but a pile of mediocrity to show for it.
The only way his value would go down further would be injury. That is the logical business realization. His value has reached the bottom because it is the beginning of his contract and he has yet to live up to the lofty expectations people have for him. Either way he is a legit NBA player and his real value will come to light as he moves closer to his next contract. We are so far away from that we right now that it would be silly to move without value, especially when this team has no direction anyway.
But he isn't playing for free! There is the opportunity cost of his salary. Could that money be better spent on a more productive player or players?
Great idea. But that isn't what you get when you sell low. You just get worse.
thedoper wrote:The best trade partner for Wiggins will be Toronto next year after they lose Kawhi and they are going into rebuild mode. I'm sure if the Toronto plan fails Masai looks for a better opportunity anyway. There's no reason to trade him just yet as I see it. Continue to monitor his progress then when there's a chance to actually get some gains, make the trade. Wiggins has a depreciated value on the open market right now, selling at this point would be a horrible business decision.
...but you do realize his value could go down further? The only thing that has kept his value above some nominal figure is his age and athleticism (which we rarely see on display). But that is starting to fade as well now that we're 4+ years into his career with nothing but a pile of mediocrity to show for it.
The only way his value would go down further would be injury. That is the logical business realization. His value has reached the bottom because it is the beginning of his contract and he has yet to live up to the lofty expectations people have for him. Either way he is a legit NBA player and his real value will come to light as he moves closer to his next contract. We are so far away from that we right now that it would be silly to move without value, especially when this team has no direction anyway.
But he isn't playing for free! There is the opportunity cost of his salary. Could that money be better spent on a more productive player or players?
Great idea. But that isn't what you get when you sell low. You just get worse.
Did the Rubio and caged Lion experience teach us nothing? Wiggins is never going to have a reliable, efficient shot. He's never going to have a good handle. He may someday become a reliable defender, but that alone is not enough to justify that horrid contract. Dump him for whatever you can get, as soon as you can get it!
thedoper wrote:The best trade partner for Wiggins will be Toronto next year after they lose Kawhi and they are going into rebuild mode. I'm sure if the Toronto plan fails Masai looks for a better opportunity anyway. There's no reason to trade him just yet as I see it. Continue to monitor his progress then when there's a chance to actually get some gains, make the trade. Wiggins has a depreciated value on the open market right now, selling at this point would be a horrible business decision.
...but you do realize his value could go down further? The only thing that has kept his value above some nominal figure is his age and athleticism (which we rarely see on display). But that is starting to fade as well now that we're 4+ years into his career with nothing but a pile of mediocrity to show for it.
The only way his value would go down further would be injury. That is the logical business realization. His value has reached the bottom because it is the beginning of his contract and he has yet to live up to the lofty expectations people have for him. Either way he is a legit NBA player and his real value will come to light as he moves closer to his next contract. We are so far away from that we right now that it would be silly to move without value, especially when this team has no direction anyway.
But he isn't playing for free! There is the opportunity cost of his salary. Could that money be better spent on a more productive player or players?
Great idea. But that isn't what you get when you sell low. You just get worse.
One could argue that selling on Wiggins could improve the team, assuming his shot attempts go to more efficient scorers, which is practically everyone else in the starting lineup. Obviously, you'd use the cap space on his replacement at the wing, but Wiggins is not the franchise pillar he was supposed to be, and is looking more and more like a franchise crippler with that contract.
It's not a tough argument to make that his cap allotment would be better spent on someone else.
If we were to get anything of value for him in return, I'd think it'd come from Sacramento or Orlando. I've made hypothetical deals in the past for each team, but I'm not even sure they'd go for what I had thought up -- Hield (SAC), Fournier (ORL) being the targets.
thedoper wrote:The best trade partner for Wiggins will be Toronto next year after they lose Kawhi and they are going into rebuild mode. I'm sure if the Toronto plan fails Masai looks for a better opportunity anyway. There's no reason to trade him just yet as I see it. Continue to monitor his progress then when there's a chance to actually get some gains, make the trade. Wiggins has a depreciated value on the open market right now, selling at this point would be a horrible business decision.
...but you do realize his value could go down further? The only thing that has kept his value above some nominal figure is his age and athleticism (which we rarely see on display). But that is starting to fade as well now that we're 4+ years into his career with nothing but a pile of mediocrity to show for it.
The only way his value would go down further would be injury. That is the logical business realization. His value has reached the bottom because it is the beginning of his contract and he has yet to live up to the lofty expectations people have for him. Either way he is a legit NBA player and his real value will come to light as he moves closer to his next contract. We are so far away from that we right now that it would be silly to move without value, especially when this team has no direction anyway.
But he isn't playing for free! There is the opportunity cost of his salary. Could that money be better spent on a more productive player or players?
Great idea. But that isn't what you get when you sell low. You just get worse.
Did the Rubio and caged Lion experience teach us nothing? Wiggins is never going to have a reliable, efficient shot. He's never going to have a good handle. He may someday become a reliable defender, but that alone is not enough to justify that horrid contract. Dump him for whatever you can get, as soon as you can get it!
Whoa! I'm a little sensitive when it comes to Rubio....Don't EVER put him in the same sentence as Derrick Williams! Rubio was a plus level player for us, just not the star we had all hoped when he was first drafted. Heck, he won a playoff series with Utah even though Khansy told us he'd never be able win in the playoffs as a team's starting PG. Utah is poised to be even better this year....
As for Derrick Williams, Smilin' Wes, and Flynn....not sure any of those guys took as much blood and treasure as Wiggins is now. I do think Wiggins is ultimately better than any of those three, but his salary is about 2 or 3X higher than it should be.
thedoper wrote:The best trade partner for Wiggins will be Toronto next year after they lose Kawhi and they are going into rebuild mode. I'm sure if the Toronto plan fails Masai looks for a better opportunity anyway. There's no reason to trade him just yet as I see it. Continue to monitor his progress then when there's a chance to actually get some gains, make the trade. Wiggins has a depreciated value on the open market right now, selling at this point would be a horrible business decision.
...but you do realize his value could go down further? The only thing that has kept his value above some nominal figure is his age and athleticism (which we rarely see on display). But that is starting to fade as well now that we're 4+ years into his career with nothing but a pile of mediocrity to show for it.
The only way his value would go down further would be injury. That is the logical business realization. His value has reached the bottom because it is the beginning of his contract and he has yet to live up to the lofty expectations people have for him. Either way he is a legit NBA player and his real value will come to light as he moves closer to his next contract. We are so far away from that we right now that it would be silly to move without value, especially when this team has no direction anyway.
But he isn't playing for free! There is the opportunity cost of his salary. Could that money be better spent on a more productive player or players?
Great idea. But that isn't what you get when you sell low. You just get worse.
One could argue that selling on Wiggins could improve the team, assuming his shot attempts go to more efficient scorers, which is practically everyone else in the starting lineup. Obviously, you'd use the cap space on his replacement at the wing, but Wiggins is not the franchise pillar he was supposed to be, and is looking more and more like a franchise crippler with that contract.
It's not a tough argument to make that his cap allotment would be better spent on someone else.
If we were to get anything of value for him in return, I'd think it'd come from Sacramento or Orlando. I've made hypothetical deals in the past for each team, but I'm not even sure they'd go for what I had thought up -- Hield (SAC), Fournier (ORL) being the targets.
Long term he may be a franchise crippler. But right now is a silly time to make that assessment and a poor time to deal him because of value. If there is a major shift of direction of the franchise, I'm sure wiggins would be looked at. But dealing him now just for some shooting would be bad busniess and not a sure win basketball wise either.
thedoper wrote:The best trade partner for Wiggins will be Toronto next year after they lose Kawhi and they are going into rebuild mode. I'm sure if the Toronto plan fails Masai looks for a better opportunity anyway. There's no reason to trade him just yet as I see it. Continue to monitor his progress then when there's a chance to actually get some gains, make the trade. Wiggins has a depreciated value on the open market right now, selling at this point would be a horrible business decision.
...but you do realize his value could go down further? The only thing that has kept his value above some nominal figure is his age and athleticism (which we rarely see on display). But that is starting to fade as well now that we're 4+ years into his career with nothing but a pile of mediocrity to show for it.
The only way his value would go down further would be injury. That is the logical business realization. His value has reached the bottom because it is the beginning of his contract and he has yet to live up to the lofty expectations people have for him. Either way he is a legit NBA player and his real value will come to light as he moves closer to his next contract. We are so far away from that we right now that it would be silly to move without value, especially when this team has no direction anyway.
But he isn't playing for free! There is the opportunity cost of his salary. Could that money be better spent on a more productive player or players?
Great idea. But that isn't what you get when you sell low. You just get worse.
Did the Rubio and caged Lion experience teach us nothing? Wiggins is never going to have a reliable, efficient shot. He's never going to have a good handle. He may someday become a reliable defender, but that alone is not enough to justify that horrid contract. Dump him for whatever you can get, as soon as you can get it!
Whoa! I'm a little sensitive when it comes to Rubio....Don't EVER put him in the same sentence as Derrick Williams! Rubio was a plus level player for us, just not the star we had all hoped when he was first drafted. Heck, he won a playoff series with Utah even though Khansy told us he'd never be able win in the playoffs as a team's starting PG. Utah is poised to be even better this year....
As for Derrick Williams, Smilin' Wes, and Flynn....not sure any of those guys took as much blood and treasure as Wiggins is now. I do think Wiggins is ultimately better than any of those three, but his salary is about 2 or 3X higher than it should be.
Not suggesting they're all on the same level in terms of talent. I am suggesting in terms of disappointment they were all much less than we had hoped, and/or their draft position would suggest... and none of them had Wiggins debilitating cap hit!
Based upon draft position and cap hit Wiggins is very well positioned to be this teams biggest mistake ever, and that's one hell of an accomplishment with this teams long list of mistakes.
thedoper wrote:The best trade partner for Wiggins will be Toronto next year after they lose Kawhi and they are going into rebuild mode. I'm sure if the Toronto plan fails Masai looks for a better opportunity anyway. There's no reason to trade him just yet as I see it. Continue to monitor his progress then when there's a chance to actually get some gains, make the trade. Wiggins has a depreciated value on the open market right now, selling at this point would be a horrible business decision.
...but you do realize his value could go down further? The only thing that has kept his value above some nominal figure is his age and athleticism (which we rarely see on display). But that is starting to fade as well now that we're 4+ years into his career with nothing but a pile of mediocrity to show for it.
The only way his value would go down further would be injury. That is the logical business realization. His value has reached the bottom because it is the beginning of his contract and he has yet to live up to the lofty expectations people have for him. Either way he is a legit NBA player and his real value will come to light as he moves closer to his next contract. We are so far away from that we right now that it would be silly to move without value, especially when this team has no direction anyway.
But he isn't playing for free! There is the opportunity cost of his salary. Could that money be better spent on a more productive player or players?
Great idea. But that isn't what you get when you sell low. You just get worse.
Did the Rubio and caged Lion experience teach us nothing? Wiggins is never going to have a reliable, efficient shot. He's never going to have a good handle. He may someday become a reliable defender, but that alone is not enough to justify that horrid contract. Dump him for whatever you can get, as soon as you can get it!
Whoa! I'm a little sensitive when it comes to Rubio....Don't EVER put him in the same sentence as Derrick Williams! Rubio was a plus level player for us, just not the star we had all hoped when he was first drafted. Heck, he won a playoff series with Utah even though Khansy told us he'd never be able win in the playoffs as a team's starting PG. Utah is poised to be even better this year....
As for Derrick Williams, Smilin' Wes, and Flynn....not sure any of those guys took as much blood and treasure as Wiggins is now. I do think Wiggins is ultimately better than any of those three, but his salary is about 2 or 3X higher than it should be.
Not suggesting they're all on the same level in terms of talent. I am suggesting in terms of disappointment they were all much less than we had hoped, and/or their draft position would suggest... and none of them had Wiggins debilitating cap hit!
Based upon draft position and cap hit Wiggins is very well positioned to be this teams biggest mistake ever, and that's one hell of an accomplishment with this teams long list of mistakes.
I'll reiterate as I always have that Wiggins will be the easiest "mistake" to correct if we want a deal. One just has to understand the history and ownership structure of the Raptors and Toronto sports to realize that a trade with Toronto for value will be an easy play, especially when they enter their next rebuild. I know everyone is on an impatient streak with the Butler drama, but it will be a cakewalk to deal wiggins to the Raptors once Kawhi walks.
thedoper wrote:The best trade partner for Wiggins will be Toronto next year after they lose Kawhi and they are going into rebuild mode. I'm sure if the Toronto plan fails Masai looks for a better opportunity anyway. There's no reason to trade him just yet as I see it. Continue to monitor his progress then when there's a chance to actually get some gains, make the trade. Wiggins has a depreciated value on the open market right now, selling at this point would be a horrible business decision.
...but you do realize his value could go down further? The only thing that has kept his value above some nominal figure is his age and athleticism (which we rarely see on display). But that is starting to fade as well now that we're 4+ years into his career with nothing but a pile of mediocrity to show for it.
The only way his value would go down further would be injury. That is the logical business realization. His value has reached the bottom because it is the beginning of his contract and he has yet to live up to the lofty expectations people have for him. Either way he is a legit NBA player and his real value will come to light as he moves closer to his next contract. We are so far away from that we right now that it would be silly to move without value, especially when this team has no direction anyway.
But he isn't playing for free! There is the opportunity cost of his salary. Could that money be better spent on a more productive player or players?
Great idea. But that isn't what you get when you sell low. You just get worse.
Did the Rubio and caged Lion experience teach us nothing? Wiggins is never going to have a reliable, efficient shot. He's never going to have a good handle. He may someday become a reliable defender, but that alone is not enough to justify that horrid contract. Dump him for whatever you can get, as soon as you can get it!
Whoa! I'm a little sensitive when it comes to Rubio....Don't EVER put him in the same sentence as Derrick Williams! Rubio was a plus level player for us, just not the star we had all hoped when he was first drafted. Heck, he won a playoff series with Utah even though Khansy told us he'd never be able win in the playoffs as a team's starting PG. Utah is poised to be even better this year....
As for Derrick Williams, Smilin' Wes, and Flynn....not sure any of those guys took as much blood and treasure as Wiggins is now. I do think Wiggins is ultimately better than any of those three, but his salary is about 2 or 3X higher than it should be.
Not suggesting they're all on the same level in terms of talent. I am suggesting in terms of disappointment they were all much less than we had hoped, and/or their draft position would suggest... and none of them had Wiggins debilitating cap hit!
Based upon draft position and cap hit Wiggins is very well positioned to be this teams biggest mistake ever, and that's one hell of an accomplishment with this teams long list of mistakes.
I'll reiterate as I always have that Wiggins will be the easiest "mistake" to correct if we want a deal. One just has to understand the history and ownership structure of the Raptors and Toronto sports to realize that a trade with Toronto for value will be an easy play, especially when they enter their next rebuild. I know everyone is on an impatient streak with the Butler drama, but it will be a cakewalk to deal wiggins to the Raptors once Kawhi walks.
If Toronto is gonna enter a rebuild, I highly doubt they'll wanna do it with Wiggins on a max deal.
thedoper wrote:The best trade partner for Wiggins will be Toronto next year after they lose Kawhi and they are going into rebuild mode. I'm sure if the Toronto plan fails Masai looks for a better opportunity anyway. There's no reason to trade him just yet as I see it. Continue to monitor his progress then when there's a chance to actually get some gains, make the trade. Wiggins has a depreciated value on the open market right now, selling at this point would be a horrible business decision.
...but you do realize his value could go down further? The only thing that has kept his value above some nominal figure is his age and athleticism (which we rarely see on display). But that is starting to fade as well now that we're 4+ years into his career with nothing but a pile of mediocrity to show for it.
The only way his value would go down further would be injury. That is the logical business realization. His value has reached the bottom because it is the beginning of his contract and he has yet to live up to the lofty expectations people have for him. Either way he is a legit NBA player and his real value will come to light as he moves closer to his next contract. We are so far away from that we right now that it would be silly to move without value, especially when this team has no direction anyway.
But he isn't playing for free! There is the opportunity cost of his salary. Could that money be better spent on a more productive player or players?
Great idea. But that isn't what you get when you sell low. You just get worse.
Did the Rubio and caged Lion experience teach us nothing? Wiggins is never going to have a reliable, efficient shot. He's never going to have a good handle. He may someday become a reliable defender, but that alone is not enough to justify that horrid contract. Dump him for whatever you can get, as soon as you can get it!
Whoa! I'm a little sensitive when it comes to Rubio....Don't EVER put him in the same sentence as Derrick Williams! Rubio was a plus level player for us, just not the star we had all hoped when he was first drafted. Heck, he won a playoff series with Utah even though Khansy told us he'd never be able win in the playoffs as a team's starting PG. Utah is poised to be even better this year....
As for Derrick Williams, Smilin' Wes, and Flynn....not sure any of those guys took as much blood and treasure as Wiggins is now. I do think Wiggins is ultimately better than any of those three, but his salary is about 2 or 3X higher than it should be.
Not suggesting they're all on the same level in terms of talent. I am suggesting in terms of disappointment they were all much less than we had hoped, and/or their draft position would suggest... and none of them had Wiggins debilitating cap hit!
Based upon draft position and cap hit Wiggins is very well positioned to be this teams biggest mistake ever, and that's one hell of an accomplishment with this teams long list of mistakes.
I'll reiterate as I always have that Wiggins will be the easiest "mistake" to correct if we want a deal. One just has to understand the history and ownership structure of the Raptors and Toronto sports to realize that a trade with Toronto for value will be an easy play, especially when they enter their next rebuild. I know everyone is on an impatient streak with the Butler drama, but it will be a cakewalk to deal wiggins to the Raptors once Kawhi walks.
If Toronto is gonna enter a rebuild, I highly doubt they'll wanna do it with Wiggins on a max deal.
It's their 2 year bridge story for fans while they rebuild. I don't think they'd be worried about being a playoff team with Wiggins and a bunch of stiffs around him.
