Timberwolves statistics + Trends.

[thedoper]

We are still thin on wings if Thibs won't make Okogie the 9th guy. Any subtle problem with Wiggs or Roco makes us super vulnerable. Josh should be getting all of Tyus' minutes as he's been absolute garbage this year. Even if the output isn't there Josh needs the minutes as Tyus is never going to be more than a backup in this league. Vet coaches don't play rookies, it's so sad because the solution seems so obvious.

[AbeVigodaLive]

We are still thin on wings if Thibs won't make Okogie the 9th guy. Any subtle problem with Wiggs or Roco makes us super vulnerable. Josh should be getting all of Tyus' minutes as he's been absolute garbage this year. Even if the output isn't there Josh needs the minutes as Tyus is never going to be more than a backup in this league. Vet coaches don't play rookies, it's so sad because the solution seems so obvious.

To be fair... I think his hands are tied a bit at PG.

I don't know if giving Rose full control of the offense is going to appease anybody already frustrated with MN's iso-heavy sets.

Because statistically, he's becoming a lot closer to 2017 NYK Rose than he is vintage MVP Rose. There's still a place for that guy, definitely. But giving him even more control could backfire pretty easily.

[Monster]

So are we all still enjoying watching this team? That's what we all said a week ago. Lakers are a game out of first in the West. Suns are only bad team in the West.

Is it time to crank up the lottery thread?

I'm still enjoying watching this team. It's been an 0-3 road trip, but I found all three games much more entertaining than any game in the last west coast debacle. The new Philly guys are fun to watch, Wig is closer to the player we want him to be, Rose is playing like MVP Rose, and the second team provides great energy when they're on the court. We're still stuck with Thibs and I think we would have a few more wins without him, but overall, I'm enjoying this team.

I'm enjoying this team also LST.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

We are still thin on wings if Thibs won't make Okogie the 9th guy. Any subtle problem with Wiggs or Roco makes us super vulnerable. Josh should be getting all of Tyus' minutes as he's been absolute garbage this year. Even if the output isn't there Josh needs the minutes as Tyus is never going to be more than a backup in this league. Vet coaches don't play rookies, it's so sad because the solution seems so obvious.

To be fair... I think his hands are tied a bit at PG.

I don't know if giving Rose full control of the offense is going to appease anybody already frustrated with MN's iso-heavy sets.

Because statistically, he's becoming a lot closer to 2017 NYK Rose than he is vintage MVP Rose. There's still a place for that guy, definitely. But giving him even more control could backfire pretty easily.

I have to admit I keep expecting 2017 Rose to become the norm...every game when he misses a shot or two I say "well, it was fun while it lasted"...but then he has another game like last night (20 points on only 13 shots in just 22 minutes), and I become a reluctant tentative believer again. Here's what I know. His explosiveness this year looks nothing like it did with Cleveland and the Knicks (or even with us last year)...I haven't seen many (any?) defenders that can stay in front of him one on one. And his per 36 stats look a lot more like 2011 than 2017 (fewer rebounds and assists than 2011, but also fewer TOs and a much better TS%...58% this season compared to 55% in MVP year and only 51% in 2017). Where I suspect he falls far behind his 2011 season is on the defensive end...I always saw him as nearly an elite defender early in his career, but today he is more of a liability. Yeah, his defensive shortcomings leave him for behind MVP year Rose, even if his offensive stats rival that year.


I agree that despite his good stats we can't afford to give him more minutes. I think Thibs is using him just fine when RoCo is playing...giving him 25-30 backup minutes off the bench. Like others, I don't agree with Thibs' starting him at the 2.

[Monster]

We are still thin on wings if Thibs won't make Okogie the 9th guy. Any subtle problem with Wiggs or Roco makes us super vulnerable. Josh should be getting all of Tyus' minutes as he's been absolute garbage this year. Even if the output isn't there Josh needs the minutes as Tyus is never going to be more than a backup in this league. Vet coaches don't play rookies, it's so sad because the solution seems so obvious.

To be fair... I think his hands are tied a bit at PG.

I don't know if giving Rose full control of the offense is going to appease anybody already frustrated with MN's iso-heavy sets.

Because statistically, he's becoming a lot closer to 2017 NYK Rose than he is vintage MVP Rose. There's still a place for that guy, definitely. But giving him even more control could backfire pretty easily.

I have to admit I keep expecting 2017 Rose to become the norm...every game when he misses a shot or two I say "well, it was fun while it lasted"...but then he has another game like last night (20 points on only 13 shots in just 22 minutes), and I become a reluctant tentative believer again. Here's what I know. His explosiveness this year looks nothing like it did with Cleveland and the Knicks (or even with us last year)...I haven't seen many (any?) defenders that can stay in front of him one on one. And his per 36 stats look a lot more like 2011 than 2017 (fewer rebounds and assists than 2011, but also fewer TOs and a much better TS%...58% this season compared to 55% in MVP year and only 51% in 2017). Where I suspect he falls far behind his 2011 season is on the defensive end...I always saw him as nearly an elite defender early in his career, but today he is more of a liability. Yeah, his defensive shortcomings leave him for behind MVP year Rose, even if his offensive stats rival that year.


I agree that despite his good stats we can't afford to give him more minutes. I think Thibs is using him just fine when RoCo is playing...giving him 25-30 backup minutes off the bench. Like others, I don't agree with Thibs' starting him at the 2.

LST I'd be curious how many Derrick Rose Knicks and Cavs games you watched. I'd hope it wasn't many. :)

Fun stat...2016-2017 when he played for the Knicks only 13 players took more shots per game within 5 feet of the basket than Derrick Rose.

Maybe it's worth mentioning after we have seen him play the last 2 seasons that Knicks team had Melo playing 74 games 34 mins a game...

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

It's the efficiency that's different with this year's Rose versus NYK Rose and almost 100% of that is due to his improved 3-point shot. It's hard to believe that a guy that's a career 30% 3-pt shooter is hitting them at a 48% clip this year. He's been an excellent 6th man scorer, no question about it.

[thedoper]

We are still thin on wings if Thibs won't make Okogie the 9th guy. Any subtle problem with Wiggs or Roco makes us super vulnerable. Josh should be getting all of Tyus' minutes as he's been absolute garbage this year. Even if the output isn't there Josh needs the minutes as Tyus is never going to be more than a backup in this league. Vet coaches don't play rookies, it's so sad because the solution seems so obvious.

To be fair... I think his hands are tied a bit at PG.

I don't know if giving Rose full control of the offense is going to appease anybody already frustrated with MN's iso-heavy sets.

Because statistically, he's becoming a lot closer to 2017 NYK Rose than he is vintage MVP Rose. There's still a place for that guy, definitely. But giving him even more control could backfire pretty easily.

Rose is already in full iso mode with the bench. What is the difference with Okogie missing the open shots instead of Tyus? I suspect Rose will carry the bench unit numbers the same way he is now and Josh may offer some D and rebounding that we aren't getting when Tyus is in there.

[AbeVigodaLive]

We are still thin on wings if Thibs won't make Okogie the 9th guy. Any subtle problem with Wiggs or Roco makes us super vulnerable. Josh should be getting all of Tyus' minutes as he's been absolute garbage this year. Even if the output isn't there Josh needs the minutes as Tyus is never going to be more than a backup in this league. Vet coaches don't play rookies, it's so sad because the solution seems so obvious.

To be fair... I think his hands are tied a bit at PG.

I don't know if giving Rose full control of the offense is going to appease anybody already frustrated with MN's iso-heavy sets.

Because statistically, he's becoming a lot closer to 2017 NYK Rose than he is vintage MVP Rose. There's still a place for that guy, definitely. But giving him even more control could backfire pretty easily.

Rose is already in full iso mode with the bench. What is the difference with Okogie missing the open shots instead of Tyus? I suspect Rose will carry the bench unit numbers the same way he is now and Josh may offer some D and rebounding that we aren't getting when Tyus is in there.

Maybe.

It might seem like Jones is worthless and doing nothing, because he's the epitome of a caretaker player and shooting only 33% on a very low number of attempts... but is there to curtail some of Rose's workload... getting things moving a bit.

Not saying the move isn't warranted... only that there are reasons for Rose and Jones being out there together a lot. And until recently, that combo had some good luck as a second unit.

[worldK]

We are still thin on wings if Thibs won't make Okogie the 9th guy. Any subtle problem with Wiggs or Roco makes us super vulnerable. Josh should be getting all of Tyus' minutes as he's been absolute garbage this year. Even if the output isn't there Josh needs the minutes as Tyus is never going to be more than a backup in this league. Vet coaches don't play rookies, it's so sad because the solution seems so obvious.

To be fair... I think his hands are tied a bit at PG.

I don't know if giving Rose full control of the offense is going to appease anybody already frustrated with MN's iso-heavy sets.

Because statistically, he's becoming a lot closer to 2017 NYK Rose than he is vintage MVP Rose. There's still a place for that guy, definitely. But giving him even more control could backfire pretty easily.

Rose is already in full iso mode with the bench. What is the difference with Okogie missing the open shots instead of Tyus? I suspect Rose will carry the bench unit numbers the same way he is now and Josh may offer some D and rebounding that we aren't getting when Tyus is in there.

Maybe.

It might seem like Jones is worthless and doing nothing, because he's the epitome of a caretaker player and shooting only 33% on a very low number of attempts... but is there to curtail some of Rose's workload... getting things moving a bit.

Not saying the move isn't warranted... only that there are reasons for Rose and Jones being out there together a lot. And until recently, that combo had some good luck as a second unit.

That may seem to be the case. But rose/tyus combo is not good on defense. Rose is simply outmatched vs bigger wings.

Also, witth tyus as the point, rose job is to score. If rose is running the point with the 2nd unit, he will make an effort to get others involved. The dynamic changes. Josh needs playing time to develop. Tyus is what he is. A backup point who is currently the 3rd best pg on the team.

I've called for saric staric starting with taj as the backup 5 and tolliver the backup 4 since we made the trade. I understand thibs going with the seniors of the team in g and tyus at the start and keeping taj in the first unit. But saric is the pf of the future. Thibs is playing him 30min a game. Might as well start him and manage his minutes better than aying him 15-17min in one stint.

I envision a roco/tolliver/taj/rose/okogie 2nd unit to out run and play at a fast paced. Rose and okogie play fast. Taj Is good at rim running. Tolliver is good at trailing 3's. Roco fits any style. Saric plays well with both towns and wig. That ahould be the rotation.

G and tyus were given their chance. They didn't suck and played their roles. But they didnt lockdown those rotation spots with solid play either. We have 2 other guys that deserve minutes and might make the team better with their respective skills. Time to play tolliver and okogie and recerse roles of saric and taj.

[kekgeek]

We are still thin on wings if Thibs won't make Okogie the 9th guy. Any subtle problem with Wiggs or Roco makes us super vulnerable. Josh should be getting all of Tyus' minutes as he's been absolute garbage this year. Even if the output isn't there Josh needs the minutes as Tyus is never going to be more than a backup in this league. Vet coaches don't play rookies, it's so sad because the solution seems so obvious.

To be fair... I think his hands are tied a bit at PG.

I don't know if giving Rose full control of the offense is going to appease anybody already frustrated with MN's iso-heavy sets.

Because statistically, he's becoming a lot closer to 2017 NYK Rose than he is vintage MVP Rose. There's still a place for that guy, definitely. But giving him even more control could backfire pretty easily.

Rose is already in full iso mode with the bench. What is the difference with Okogie missing the open shots instead of Tyus? I suspect Rose will carry the bench unit numbers the same way he is now and Josh may offer some D and rebounding that we aren't getting when Tyus is in there.

Maybe.

It might seem like Jones is worthless and doing nothing, because he's the epitome of a caretaker player and shooting only 33% on a very low number of attempts... but is there to curtail some of Rose's workload... getting things moving a bit.

Not saying the move isn't warranted... only that there are reasons for Rose and Jones being out there together a lot. And until recently, that combo had some good luck as a second unit.

That may seem to be the case. But rose/tyus combo is not good on defense. Rose is simply outmatched vs bigger wings.

Also, witth tyus as the point, rose job is to score. If rose is running the point with the 2nd unit, he will make an effort to get others involved. The dynamic changes. Josh needs playing time to develop. Tyus is what he is. A backup point who is currently the 3rd best pg on the team.

I've called for saric staric starting with taj as the backup 5 and tolliver the backup 4 since we made the trade. I understand thibs going with the seniors of the team in g and tyus at the start and keeping taj in the first unit. But saric is the pf of the future. Thibs is playing him 30min a game. Might as well start him and manage his minutes better than aying him 15-17min in one stint.

I envision a roco/tolliver/taj/rose/okogie 2nd unit to out run and play at a fast paced. Rose and okogie play fast. Taj Is good at rim running. Tolliver is good at trailing 3's. Roco fits any style. Saric plays well with both towns and wig. That ahould be the rotation.

G and tyus were given their chance. They didn't suck and played their roles. But they didnt lockdown those rotation spots with solid play either. We have 2 other guys that deserve minutes and might make the team better with their respective skills. Time to play tolliver and okogie and recerse roles of saric and taj.

Lineups with rose and tyus actually have been very good defensively this year