Game Report - Wolves v. Hawks

[Wolvesfan21]

The Wolves and especially KAT and Wiggins think they are better than the are. We saw it last year against the worst teams. They would come out with low effort, let the other team either get a lead or hang close. Then in crunch time blow it because they are poor closers.

Hey, KAT and Wiggins. YOU HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING YET. Making the playoffs once is a FAILURE. You better play hard all the time against EVERYONE. Half ass effort will continue to give half ass results.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I recognize that I let myself get too affected by Thibs' unattractive sideline demeanor when I go to games, but sitting right behind Atlanta coach Lloyd Pierce last night, I couldn't help wishing that the coaches would swap benches. Not only did I respect Pierce's game decisions, offensive philosophy (threes and dunks, baby) and rotations more than Thibs', the difference in professionalism was on stark display. Every time I looked at Thibs, he would be whining about a call with that stereotypical Thibs' palms to the sky grimace...ugh. In contrast, Pierce focused his attention on the game rather than the refs, and displayed a calmness and coolness that has to be soothing to his players. Also, it was impressive the way he commanded the attention of his players during timeouts...not one player was joking around or looking up at the crowd, unlike the behavior during a Thibs timeout. Pierce has nowhere near the talent to work with that Thibs has, and as a first year coach, doesn't have anywhere near Thibs' success in the league. But something about him just looks like a winner, and comments about him from other coaches tell me I am not alone. I would change coaches with the Hawks in a heartbeat.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I recognize that I let myself get too affected by Thibs' unattractive sideline demeanor when I go to games, but sitting right behind Atlanta coach Lloyd Pierce last night, I couldn't help wishing that the coaches would swap benches. Not only did I respect Pierce's game decisions, offensive philosophy (threes and dunks, baby) and rotations more than Thibs', the difference in professionalism was on stark display. Every time I looked at Thibs, he would be whining about a call with that stereotypical Thibs' palms to the sky grimace...ugh. In contrast, Pierce focused his attention on the game rather than the refs, and displayed a calmness and coolness that has to be soothing to his players. Also, it was impressive the way he commanded the attention of his players during timeouts...not one player was joking around or looking up at the crowd, unlike the behavior during a Thibs timeout. Pierce has nowhere near the talent to work with that Thibs has, and as a first year coach, doesn't have anywhere near Thibs' success in the league. But something about him just looks like a winner, and comments about him from other coaches tell me I am not alone. I would change coaches with the Hawks in a heartbeat.

Yeah, it reminds me a little bit of Brett Brown. In those really down years during "the process", he was still fielding a team that played in a modern way and worked their butts off. It laid the ground work for what was to come once they finally got a healthy Embiid and Simmons firing on all cylinders.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I recognize that I let myself get too affected by Thibs' unattractive sideline demeanor when I go to games, but sitting right behind Atlanta coach Lloyd Pierce last night, I couldn't help wishing that the coaches would swap benches. Not only did I respect Pierce's game decisions, offensive philosophy (threes and dunks, baby) and rotations more than Thibs', the difference in professionalism was on stark display. Every time I looked at Thibs, he would be whining about a call with that stereotypical Thibs' palms to the sky grimace...ugh. In contrast, Pierce focused his attention on the game rather than the refs, and displayed a calmness and coolness that has to be soothing to his players. Also, it was impressive the way he commanded the attention of his players during timeouts...not one player was joking around or looking up at the crowd, unlike the behavior during a Thibs timeout. Pierce has nowhere near the talent to work with that Thibs has, and as a first year coach, doesn't have anywhere near Thibs' success in the league. But something about him just looks like a winner, and comments about him from other coaches tell me I am not alone. I would change coaches with the Hawks in a heartbeat.

Yeah, it reminds me a little bit of Brett Brown. In those really down years during "the process", he was still fielding a team that played in a modern way and worked their butts off. It laid the ground work for what was to come once they finally got a healthy Embiid and Simmons firing on all cylinders.

And Brett Brown of course is one of the guys who sings the praises of Lloyd Pierce,,,hated to lose him as an assistant, but knew he would be a good NBA coach. The contrast between how the Atlanta centers got back on defense compared to KAT (who was too busy emulating Thibs complaining about a non-call) was palpable.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I recognize that I let myself get too affected by Thibs' unattractive sideline demeanor when I go to games, but sitting right behind Atlanta coach Lloyd Pierce last night, I couldn't help wishing that the coaches would swap benches. Not only did I respect Pierce's game decisions, offensive philosophy (threes and dunks, baby) and rotations more than Thibs', the difference in professionalism was on stark display. Every time I looked at Thibs, he would be whining about a call with that stereotypical Thibs' palms to the sky grimace...ugh. In contrast, Pierce focused his attention on the game rather than the refs, and displayed a calmness and coolness that has to be soothing to his players. Also, it was impressive the way he commanded the attention of his players during timeouts...not one player was joking around or looking up at the crowd, unlike the behavior during a Thibs timeout. Pierce has nowhere near the talent to work with that Thibs has, and as a first year coach, doesn't have anywhere near Thibs' success in the league. But something about him just looks like a winner, and comments about him from other coaches tell me I am not alone. I would change coaches with the Hawks in a heartbeat.

Interesting how easy it is to commend rotations when it fits a narrative.

Consider that the Hawks had Justin Anderson on the court at the end of regulation. The guy is a journeyman player for his career who has only played 132 minutes for one of the worst teams in the league. All the analytics show him being a subpar defender.

But Lloyd Pierce put him in the game when the Hawks desperately needed a defensive stop. And he got a block. What a great move by Pierce!

Do you really think there was a single Hawks fan thinking "Yes, he put in that Anderson guy who never plays at the biggest moment. What a smart move."

Or, the same with him playing DeAndre Bembry 35 minutes. Do you think having that guy on the court so much in the 2nd half had something to do with the red-hot Hawks going from 42 points in the 1st quarter to only 41 in the entire second half? After all, he has a -3.6 OBPM. He's a terrible offensive basketball player.

I don't know anything about Lloyd Pierce's ability to coach. As I noted elsewhere, they avoid the bad two-point shots, so that's a good sign. But overall, I still don't know and that hasn't changed after last night. It wasn't Thibs' fault for that loss. He didn't help the Wolves win... so he's definitely part of the problem. But losing to a Hawks team at home through bad defense, missed free throws and botched dunks is NOT the time to blame Thibs.

******** THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OR DEFENSE FOR TOM THIBODEAU IN ANY WAY.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Abe, I think it's less about the brilliance of Lloyd Pierce and more about how he had a team of journeymen, rookies, and young guys playing hard and running a modern offense vs. the lackluster defense and miscues of our merry band of underachievers.

As for "not Thibs fault", how do we know the heavy minutes on the starters didn't have something to do with the missed FTs and dunks? Even just a little perhaps. He shares SOME responsibility for these mistakes IMO even if on the surface it seems like 100% on the player.

(and yes, I realize you aren't endorsing Thibs).

[Lipoli390]

LST - I think both you and Q are overstating KAT's defensive failings in the game. His defense was actually consistently very good the second half. But I'm not going to die on the hill defending KAT's defense. The point we can all agree on is that KAT could have easily carried the Wolves to victory with a 40-point scoring night if the Wolves' guards had gotten him the ball at a rate even remotely close to the number of times he was wide open on the perimeter or well-established in the post. Just like James Harden and Steph Curry, you ride his offense and live with his defensive limitations. And actually, I'd say KAT's overall defense is already better than Harden's.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I recognize that I let myself get too affected by Thibs' unattractive sideline demeanor when I go to games, but sitting right behind Atlanta coach Lloyd Pierce last night, I couldn't help wishing that the coaches would swap benches. Not only did I respect Pierce's game decisions, offensive philosophy (threes and dunks, baby) and rotations more than Thibs', the difference in professionalism was on stark display. Every time I looked at Thibs, he would be whining about a call with that stereotypical Thibs' palms to the sky grimace...ugh. In contrast, Pierce focused his attention on the game rather than the refs, and displayed a calmness and coolness that has to be soothing to his players. Also, it was impressive the way he commanded the attention of his players during timeouts...not one player was joking around or looking up at the crowd, unlike the behavior during a Thibs timeout. Pierce has nowhere near the talent to work with that Thibs has, and as a first year coach, doesn't have anywhere near Thibs' success in the league. But something about him just looks like a winner, and comments about him from other coaches tell me I am not alone. I would change coaches with the Hawks in a heartbeat.

Interesting how easy it is to commend rotations when it fits a narrative.

Consider that the Hawks had Justin Anderson on the court at the end of regulation. The guy is a journeyman player for his career who has only played 132 minutes for one of the worst teams in the league. All the analytics show him being a subpar defender.

But Lloyd Pierce put him in the game when the Hawks desperately needed a defensive stop. And he got a block. What a great move by Pierce!

Do you really think there was a single Hawks fan thinking "Yes, he put in that Anderson guy who never plays at the biggest moment. What a smart move."

Or, the same with him playing DeAndre Bembry 35 minutes. Do you think having that guy on the court so much in the 2nd half had something to do with the red-hot Hawks going from 42 points in the 1st quarter to only 41 in the entire second half? After all, he has a -3.6 OBPM. He's a terrible offensive basketball player.

I don't know anything about Lloyd Pierce's ability to coach. As I noted elsewhere, they avoid the bad two-point shots, so that's a good sign. But overall, I still don't know and that hasn't changed after last night. It wasn't Thibs' fault for that loss. He didn't help the Wolves win... so he's definitely part of the problem. But losing to a Hawks team at home through bad defense, missed free throws and botched dunks is NOT the time to blame Thibs.

******** THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OR DEFENSE FOR TOM THIBODEAU IN ANY WAY.

What a Thibs bobo you are...I literally have never read a negative comment about Thibs from you ;) .

I gotta admit I scratched my head when I saw Anderson taking his jersey off right in front of me...kind of the same feeling I had when I saw Okogie going into the game when we needed a tying 3-pointer. Difficult to understand either move.

Bembry is a difficult guy for me to figure out. His season stats are terrible and he seems to play out of control at times, but he was clearly giving us fits last night with his ball movement, rebounding and constant movement at both ends of the court. I don't know if he is always such a "do shit" type of player, but he certainly was last night. I don't know for sure, but maybe Pierce recognized that the kid was doing some good things and knew his additional minutes would keep his starters fresh. Pierce had all his wings at 35 minutes or less in the closing minutes, while Thibs had all of his at 41 minutes or more. We all can debate whether this minutes disparity had an impact on the outcome, but we can't argue with the numbers themselves.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe, I think it's less about the brilliance of Lloyd Pierce and more about how he had a team of journeymen, rookies, and young guys playing hard and running a modern offense vs. the lackluster defense and miscues of our merry band of underachievers.

As for "not Thibs fault", how do we know the heavy minutes on the starters didn't have something to do with the missed FTs and dunks? Even just a little perhaps. He shares SOME responsibility for these mistakes IMO even if on the surface it seems like 100% on the player.

(and yes, I realize you aren't endorsing Thibs).

Oh. I agree... "he's definitely part of the problem."

But we've gone over the cliff on this board with the Thibs is the Worst rhetoric. Railing against it for things like shooting 55% from the line or missing two dunks or the $150M player not getting back on defense seems to absolve players from blame.

Maybe we're not the only ones who think coaches >> players. I don't participate on other fan forums like this. I just find it mind-boggling sometimes. To be fair... that's probably on me and probably a pretty telltale sign about me and posting.

This place has always been a very optimistic crew when it comes to players... I remember growing this frustrated with all the excuses made for guys like Darko and Michael Beasley in the past. Meh. It is what it is... best plan is for Thibs to get fired (it will happen this summer)... so a new guy comes in and we can begin the cycle anew.

Hopefully, it's a coach with a more modern game plan and less yelling/whining so the team is more interesting to watch.


[Note: KAT is playing 33.6 mpg. Wiggins is at 33.5 mpg. Both have gone down each season under Thibs. In fact, everybody's mpg is down among the starters. I think it's ridiculous when he puts the starters back in, up 20, like in Chicago. But in a close OT game like last night when the team is trying to claw back into it after not showing up to start... minutes are usually going to be higher. Anthony Davis played 43 minutes in a 48-minute game last night by the way.]


******** THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OR DEFENSE FOR TOM THIBODEAU IN ANY WAY.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I recognize that I let myself get too affected by Thibs' unattractive sideline demeanor when I go to games, but sitting right behind Atlanta coach Lloyd Pierce last night, I couldn't help wishing that the coaches would swap benches. Not only did I respect Pierce's game decisions, offensive philosophy (threes and dunks, baby) and rotations more than Thibs', the difference in professionalism was on stark display. Every time I looked at Thibs, he would be whining about a call with that stereotypical Thibs' palms to the sky grimace...ugh. In contrast, Pierce focused his attention on the game rather than the refs, and displayed a calmness and coolness that has to be soothing to his players. Also, it was impressive the way he commanded the attention of his players during timeouts...not one player was joking around or looking up at the crowd, unlike the behavior during a Thibs timeout. Pierce has nowhere near the talent to work with that Thibs has, and as a first year coach, doesn't have anywhere near Thibs' success in the league. But something about him just looks like a winner, and comments about him from other coaches tell me I am not alone. I would change coaches with the Hawks in a heartbeat.

Interesting how easy it is to commend rotations when it fits a narrative.

Consider that the Hawks had Justin Anderson on the court at the end of regulation. The guy is a journeyman player for his career who has only played 132 minutes for one of the worst teams in the league. All the analytics show him being a subpar defender.

But Lloyd Pierce put him in the game when the Hawks desperately needed a defensive stop. And he got a block. What a great move by Pierce!

Do you really think there was a single Hawks fan thinking "Yes, he put in that Anderson guy who never plays at the biggest moment. What a smart move."

Or, the same with him playing DeAndre Bembry 35 minutes. Do you think having that guy on the court so much in the 2nd half had something to do with the red-hot Hawks going from 42 points in the 1st quarter to only 41 in the entire second half? After all, he has a -3.6 OBPM. He's a terrible offensive basketball player.

I don't know anything about Lloyd Pierce's ability to coach. As I noted elsewhere, they avoid the bad two-point shots, so that's a good sign. But overall, I still don't know and that hasn't changed after last night. It wasn't Thibs' fault for that loss. He didn't help the Wolves win... so he's definitely part of the problem. But losing to a Hawks team at home through bad defense, missed free throws and botched dunks is NOT the time to blame Thibs.

******** THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OR DEFENSE FOR TOM THIBODEAU IN ANY WAY.

What a Thibs bobo you are...I literally have never read a negative comment about Thibs from you ;) .

I gotta admit I scratched my head when I saw Anderson taking his jersey off right in front of me...kind of the same feeling I had when I saw Okogie going into the game when we needed a tying 3-pointer. Difficult to understand either move.

Bembry is a difficult guy for me to figure out. His season stats are terrible and he seems to play out of control at times, but he was clearly giving us fits last night with his ball movement, rebounding and constant movement at both ends of the court. I don't know if he is always such a "do shit" type of player, but he certainly was last night. I don't know for sure, but maybe Pierce recognized that the kid was doing some good things and knew his additional minutes would keep his starters fresh. Pierce had all his wings at 35 minutes or less in the closing minutes, while Thibs had all of his at 41 minutes or more. We all can debate whether this minutes disparity had an impact on the outcome, but we can't argue with the numbers themselves.

Here's another possible reason:

The Hawks really don't care if they win or not. For the Wolves, every game still matters. It's easy to stick to putting in journeyman and sticking with young guys when you know a win or loss has no effect on your long-term goals (or job).

The Wolves losing to the Hawks at home (in the way that they did) should be placed at the feet of the entire organization. Everybody is to be blamed for that one.