Spassky wrote:Teague seems to have some Christian Ponder disease sometimes - dribbles around and can't make a decision and ends up throwing up a shot or forcing a teammate to throw up a shot as the 24 runs out. Tyus has more of an intentional, strategic approach it seems - Teague just dribbles around and hopes for the best.
The one benefit Tyus usually has though is he gives the ball to someone else to create a shot when all else fails (Crawford last year, Rose this year). We've seen how inefficient he's been when he tries to create offense on his own. Teague can actually get you a basket if all else fails, but yeah, it's painful at times watching him probing endlessly for a crack in the defense only to come up empty.
I'm hoping that if we eventually get Saric in the starting lineup that Teague will have a ton more space to work with and be more decisive. Covington vs. Butler already helps.
BizarroJerry wrote:Nice report Lip. Watching Okie and Cov jump passing lanes and fight high on picks is fun. More Wig and Kat dunks going forward please.
Thibs played Cov 41 minutes? And our bench was playing well. Thibs will try and burn him out too.
Yeah, i don't get what thibs is doing with these minutes. Wiggs and teague arent fully healthy yet, but he still trots them out for almost 40 minutes on a night when okogie and tyus are playing well.
I get the minutes alarm... but it must have been contagious.
Minnesota had two players over 37 minutes.
New Orleans had three players over 38 minutes, with Davis at 41.
Outside of mirotic, the pels starters are healthy. Wiggs and teague are playing through nagging injuries. I mean thibs has already played rose too minutes and it's caught up.
I get that he needs bodies out there, but when the bench are playing well, we don't need to risk further injury.
Sure. But we heard the same things last year when the Wolves were arguably the healthiest team in the league.
I'm not absolving Thibs from playing guys too many minutes. But we should probably be honest about it a bit more often and not give excuses "but but but it's different" when other teams do the same thing.
Exactly. When other teams do this, there's excuses for it. When Thibs does it he's a terrible coach. We were all praising Wiggs last night and for good reason, he came up big. However, you take him out for an extra 5 minutes does he have as big of an impact? Teague was an All Star the first half unless you see him obviously hurting or he asks to come out, you play him.
I like Tyus, been a fan for a while and was hoping he could turn into a starting PG in the league (nope). People love to throw around +/- a lot with him and thats....great?? I never really cared for the stat personally but he does seem to make a better net positive when he plays LESS not more. People pointing to last night and his + game, were we watching the same Tyus? The guy had deflections and such but other than that (maybe better ball movement in the 2nd half?) what did he really bring? Okogie should have played more but RoCo was a BEAST last night. I expect the minutes to come down as Saric gets more comfortable.
BizarroJerry wrote:Nice report Lip. Watching Okie and Cov jump passing lanes and fight high on picks is fun. More Wig and Kat dunks going forward please.
Thibs played Cov 41 minutes? And our bench was playing well. Thibs will try and burn him out too.
Yeah, i don't get what thibs is doing with these minutes. Wiggs and teague arent fully healthy yet, but he still trots them out for almost 40 minutes on a night when okogie and tyus are playing well.
I get the minutes alarm... but it must have been contagious.
Minnesota had two players over 37 minutes.
New Orleans had three players over 38 minutes, with Davis at 41.
Outside of mirotic, the pels starters are healthy. Wiggs and teague are playing through nagging injuries. I mean thibs has already played rose too minutes and it's caught up.
I get that he needs bodies out there, but when the bench are playing well, we don't need to risk further injury.
Sure. But we heard the same things last year when the Wolves were arguably the healthiest team in the league.
I'm not absolving Thibs from playing guys too many minutes. But we should probably be honest about it a bit more often and not give excuses "but but but it's different" when other teams do the same thing.
Exactly. When other teams do this, there's excuses for it. When Thibs does it he's a terrible coach. We were all praising Wiggs last night and for good reason, he came up big. However, you take him out for an extra 5 minutes does he have as big of an impact? Teague was an All Star the first half unless you see him obviously hurting or he asks to come out, you play him.
I like Tyus, been a fan for a while and was hoping he could turn into a starting PG in the league (nope). People love to throw around +/- a lot with him and thats....great?? I never really cared for the stat personally but he does seem to make a better net positive when he plays LESS not more. People pointing to last night and his + game, were we watching the same Tyus? The guy had deflections and such but other than that (maybe better ball movement in the 2nd half?) what did he really bring? Okogie should have played more but RoCo was a BEAST last night. I expect the minutes to come down as Saric gets more comfortable.
And no to Tolliver, just...no...
One more note... at least for last night's game...
It was an important game if the Wolves want to even pretend to have playoff hopes. As it stands, they're still 14th in a 15 team conference... but a loss puts them near Phoenix's level.
There will be many more occasions to rip Thibs for rotations and all that... and he'll deserve it... but I don't know if last night serves as the best time to do so.
I'm not even paying attention to playoff positioning at this point (as compared to last year). I just want to see this group of guys grow together and give us some great entertainment. If you start looking at the Western Conference competition, it gets pretty daunting and you realize quickly we may just not have the fire power.
Q12543 wrote:I'm not even paying attention to playoff positioning at this point (as compared to last year). I just want to see this group of guys grow together and give us some great entertainment. If you start looking at the Western Conference competition, it gets pretty daunting and you realize quickly we may just not have the fire power.
And that's fine... and realistic.
I'm just saying that sitting even further behind 13 other teams this soon into the season can become pretty dispiriting. The team needs some success... any success right now.
The organization already pissed away multiple games by letting the Butler saga fester.
Listening to the Rose post practice interview, this team is now having fun.
It was Kats birthday, the guys were laughing it up and singing happy birthday. Rose also stressed how thibs was more relaxed and let the team listen to music at practice. I know it isnt going to last forever with the tough stretch of games ahead, but its good to see these guys laugh and loosen up.
According to Rose, Joakim is the biggest Prince fan, I would not be surprised to see him in Minny for Fridays game.
Q12543 wrote:Terrific game report Lip. It's nice to hear the guys were loose on the bench and interacting positively with each other.
LST, Okogie's 3-ball looks good when he's set. He shot 38% on 166 attempts in college and is a good free thrower, so all signs point to someone that should at least be a league average 3-point shooter eventually, but ya know...Wolves and all...no guarantees especially when it comes to shooting.
What Okogie does need to stop are the pull up J's off the dribble. Those shots look horrible and, like Wiggins, he should extinguish them from his game. He also lacks creativity on drives to the hoop. It's either he muscles/dunks it in or it's a terrible miss because he can't adjust. Until he proves otherwise, I'm hoping that at minimum he becomes Covington 2.0 at SG.
Q - I disagree with you on Okogie's drives to the hoop. He's a much better ballhandler than Wiggins even as a 20-year old rookie. And while not highly creative on his drives, he actually has some change of pace and a high basketball IQ that will eventually make him very effective on drives to the hole. Watch his decision-making and passing. He has a great feel for the game. His main flaw right now, as you pointed out, is his jumper off the dribble. In my view, that will be his biggest challenge if he's going to become the great player I think he can be.
BizarroJerry wrote:Nice report Lip. Watching Okie and Cov jump passing lanes and fight high on picks is fun. More Wig and Kat dunks going forward please.
Thibs played Cov 41 minutes? And our bench was playing well. Thibs will try and burn him out too.
Yeah, i don't get what thibs is doing with these minutes. Wiggs and teague arent fully healthy yet, but he still trots them out for almost 40 minutes on a night when okogie and tyus are playing well.
I get the minutes alarm... but it must have been contagious.
Minnesota had two players over 37 minutes.
New Orleans had three players over 38 minutes, with Davis at 41.
The biggest problem with such heavy minutes for the Wolves starters last night was the fact that our bench players, especially Okogie, were playing so well compared to their bench. Playing Okogie 16 minutes while giving Wiggins 37 minutes and Covington 41 minutes, was ridiculous. For those who assert that Thibodeau's coaching has improved, I refer them to Thibodeau's coaching last night, including his allocation of minutes and his failure to adjust the Teague-centric pick-and-roll offense in the second half in response to the adjustments the Pelicans made and the horrific we saw from Teague during that stretch in the third quarter.
monsterpile wrote:Teague NEVER gets the benefit of the doubt. Was it his fault they were doing all those post ups or swinging it to a guy like Wiggins who holds the ball for 5 seconds before doing anything with it? It wasn't all on him and JVG mentioned it. After the game Thibs said they needed to move the ball more. Was Teague part of the problem and not part of the solution? Yes but it's not all him. Plus with no Rose the level of Shot creation on the roster was low. That's why Tyus didn't play much it was pretty simple to see why he didn't get more run than he did.
Also for all the good Okogie did he also had a couple plays where he fumbled the ball for turnovers. Could he have played more? Yeah ainthink do. It was reported After the game someone asked Thibs about playing Covington at the 4 and Thibs smiled and joked you want to find him more minutes? Lol
It's not all on Teague. Much of it is on Thibodeau. At the end of the day, it was Teague who held and dribbled ineffectiveness, not for 5 seconds a few times, but 15 second repeatedly. There are a few realities. Teague generally looks first for his own shot before he looks to facilitate for his teammates. Did he play well in the first half? Yes. Is he a bad player? No. But truth is, he played poorly in the second half last night.
Q12543 wrote:Terrific game report Lip. It's nice to hear the guys were loose on the bench and interacting positively with each other.
LST, Okogie's 3-ball looks good when he's set. He shot 38% on 166 attempts in college and is a good free thrower, so all signs point to someone that should at least be a league average 3-point shooter eventually, but ya know...Wolves and all...no guarantees especially when it comes to shooting.
What Okogie does need to stop are the pull up J's off the dribble. Those shots look horrible and, like Wiggins, he should extinguish them from his game. He also lacks creativity on drives to the hoop. It's either he muscles/dunks it in or it's a terrible miss because he can't adjust. Until he proves otherwise, I'm hoping that at minimum he becomes Covington 2.0 at SG.
Q - I disagree with you on Okogie's drives to the hoop. He's a much better ballhandler than Wiggins even as a 20-year old rookie. And while not highly creative on his drives, he actually has some change of pace and a high basketball IQ that will eventually make him very effective on drives to the hole. Watch his decision-making and passing. He has a great feel for the game. His main flaw right now, as you pointed out, is his jumper off the dribble. In my view, that will be his biggest challenge if he's going to become the great player I think he can be.
One thing that was spectacular about Wiggins early on was his ability to finish around the basket ones he got there. He was incredibly able to rotate and square his body up and even finish through contact. Weirdly as I've mentioned now he is getting too cute although sometimes there is a time for a finger roll etc. okogie doesn't have that to his game yet (more of a 2 foot jumper) although if it's an open floor situation he does much better. I think Okogie's ball handling is a little better than given credit for and his footwork off the dribble is actually pretty good*. I keep wondering when defenders will stop going for his wild ball fakes on the perimeter. I mean they are kinda impressive and after he does them he is gone. He is more quick than explosive but he can move off the dribble. In some ways I think he and Wiggins offensive abilities as rookies are more similar than it would seem.
* Okogie's problem off the dribble is more that he has a low release point so the shot can be more easily blocked if he doesn't get enough separation. The shot though looks pretty good.
What separates Okogie from Wiggins isnhia abolty to actually make passes on his drives. He looks like he is gonna go all Bazz flying into the lane and then all of the sudden he whips or drops off some pass to someone. As a Rookie you could see Wiggins reading the defense facing up or posting up but Okigie seems to be able to see the defense while he is driving. That's really encouraging. There is some rawness to his game but there also seem to be some natural instincts too. He reminds me of the young kinda good athlete guys that Play hard and do some fun stuff because in some ways they don't know better (basketball wasn't really their sport they just play cause that's what people are doing). Sometimes when those guys try playing the way they thing they are supposed to do they make fewer mistakes but they lose some of the energy plays that made them kind of impact players in a way. Okogie is obviously into the game but he plays like a guy that just plays and doesn't think too much. That's the opposite of Wiggins IMO I think early on he thought too much.
