crazy-canuck wrote:"ESPN Reporting w/ Zach Lowe: Minnesota's asking price for Jimmy Butler remains too steep for teams. Minny seeks quality vets/top prospects/future assets/cap relief. Too high a price for interested teams, including Miami. Sources are skeptical of Thibodeau's desire to make deal."
I'll admit I usually laugh at the team that's trying to trade the asset when the asking price is crazy high but...you think the team with the asset is supposed to start about where they want to end up? No. Besides this listed all the possible options of things the Wolves likely want back. If that total return is the asking price and it's turning away teams...damn the Wolves will be able to get at least half of what they are asking right? lol This report actually makes the idea that Miami wouldn't give up Josh Richardson laughable.
Let's go back to the Pacers return for PG. We didn't know how Dipo and Sabonis would turn out but we should be able to get something that good maybe even better. You could argue that Josh Richardson with his value contract is worth more than Dipo but even though Dipo was making a lot of money he wasn't just some worthless guy and he was locked in (flat 21 million) even at his bigger salary. He averages almost 16ppg playing next to Westbrook...that seems like some sort of accomplishment. Sabonis was a guy a lot of people here liked and while his value was diminished after a so so Rookie year there was some value to him. We should be able to get a starting quality younger wing and another decent asset in the deal without taking back too much bad salary. It also could take a while. Not a month or whatever but more than a few hours maybe more like days.
Camden wrote:I think you all are wildly underestimating what we're going to get back for Butler. These hodgepodge Miami Heat offers just aren't good enough for me to pull the trigger and I doubt they are good enough for Minnesota's management either.
Keep in mind, the deal that was made between the Wolves and Bulls means next to nothing in determining Butler's current value. That deal is over and done with and the league as a whole has massively changed since then -- specifically the East being somewhat wide open with LeBron's departure, and the West being even better with the additions of big talent, which means teams are more pressed than ever to add stars when they're available.
This whole "Minnesota has no leverage" thing is ridiculous to me. Simple economics here. Supply and demand is in play. Supply for available marquee talent is very low and the demand for that franchise-changing talent is arguably at an all-time high. The Wolves should get back a healthy return and there should be disappointment if they don't.
I have to agree with Cam on this. Not only R a lot of these underwhelming, many really gives us no reason to make a deal. While, the media say we have no leverage, and teams with cap space next season can wait us out, there is only one Jimmy, and so only one team will get him. Jimmy wants the five year deal, and he only gets that if he is traded now.
The wolves can hold on to him and let him walk next season if Josh Richardson and bad contracts are all that is being offered. You don't make deals to obtain mediocre guys you can sign in the off season. Jimmy is the prize!
Why aren't we trying to deal with a team like SAC who has everything we would want?
Wait! Since when is Josh Richardson being offered? He might be the best player we realistically can get but Miami is saying it doesn't want to trade him. If Miami would give us Richardson, Whiteside, Winslow and a pick for Butler and Dieng, sign me up (but I doubt Miami has made that offer). I'd also be thrilled if we could move Teague's contract to Phoenix if we don't have to give up a pick to do so. Right now, if reports coming out are accurate Miami is offering junk (Dragic, Waiters, Johnson) and they are waiting out the Wolves as other teams announce they are dropping out of the bidding.
The one thing i agree with Thibs on is to not make a bad deal for the sake of making a deal. If we can't get decent value let Butler sit until we can. The problem is the window where we could have gotten great value passed back in June. With all the information that has come out since the end of the season, can anyone disagree with that?
Thibs obviously is in no hurry to get a deal done. Thibs probably wants to drag this into the season hoping it helps keep his job another year. Glen needs to grow a pair and fire him and bring it someone else to complete a trade.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:The one thing i agree with Thibs on is to not make a bad deal for the sake of making a deal. If we can't get decent value let Butler sit until we can. The problem is the window where we could have gotten great value passed back in June. With all the information that has come out since the end of the season, can anyone disagree with that?
It depends on what you call great value back in June. I don't think this draft had any game changing all-stars drafted after 7 so if you are talking about getting just any lottery pick after 7 in a deal I would call that worse value than a known commodity on a good deal like Richardson. Everyone loves the potential game here, but most prospects bust or are mediocre. A complete whiff on a prospect in a Jimmy trade would have been a disaster. So if top 7 was on the table that would have been great value, but I am highly doubtful that would have been on the table as the Grizzlies were the only top 7 team that could bounce back and be a top team with Jimmy and I don't think they had enough outside of the pick to secure a deal.
I agree with Cam on this to a degree. We already have a floor value for Butler. It is letting him walk and not giving him a longterm contract. Even if he was happy here I think it would have been a bad move to give him a 5-year contract for a guy that already has problems staying on the court and likely will age poorly.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:The one thing i agree with Thibs on is to not make a bad deal for the sake of making a deal. If we can't get decent value let Butler sit until we can. The problem is the window where we could have gotten great value passed back in June. With all the information that has come out since the end of the season, can anyone disagree with that?
To me it matters on what Jimmy said back then. If it was trade me now, thibs made a mistake. If it was I am leaning towards leaving or i'm leaving but there was no trade demands I really don't blame thibs.
You got to see it from thibs prospective if he trades Jimmy he will get fired because we wont make the playoffs and with Jimmy we were the 3 seed and the rockets on paper got worse and older. Stop thibs thinks winning can heal all and that is all Jimmy talks about it's winning. So I can see where thibs was coming from and would have had similar opinions
CoolBreeze44 wrote:The one thing i agree with Thibs on is to not make a bad deal for the sake of making a deal. If we can't get decent value let Butler sit until we can. The problem is the window where we could have gotten great value passed back in June. With all the information that has come out since the end of the season, can anyone disagree with that?
To me it matters on what Jimmy said back then. If it was trade me now, thibs made a mistake. If it was I am leaning towards leaving or i'm leaving but there was no trade demands I really don't blame thibs.
You got to see it from thibs prospective if he trades Jimmy he will get fired because we wont make the playoffs and with Jimmy we were the 3 seed and the rockets on paper got worse and older. Stop thibs thinks winning can heal all and that is all Jimmy talks about it's winning. So I can see where thibs was coming from and would have had similar opinions
He skipped the team's charter Kek. You don't do that without prior permission. He put himself above the team. And multiple reports have Jimmy making his thoughts known right after the season.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:The one thing i agree with Thibs on is to not make a bad deal for the sake of making a deal. If we can't get decent value let Butler sit until we can. The problem is the window where we could have gotten great value passed back in June. With all the information that has come out since the end of the season, can anyone disagree with that?
To me it matters on what Jimmy said back then. If it was trade me now, thibs made a mistake. If it was I am leaning towards leaving or i'm leaving but there was no trade demands I really don't blame thibs.
You got to see it from thibs prospective if he trades Jimmy he will get fired because we wont make the playoffs and with Jimmy we were the 3 seed and the rockets on paper got worse and older. Stop thibs thinks winning can heal all and that is all Jimmy talks about it's winning. So I can see where thibs was coming from and would have had similar opinions
If a PBO won't take action regarding a player unless/until that player has told him unequivocally that he demands to be trade, that PBO has no business being in charge of a multi-million dollar operation, i.e, a NBA team's basketball operations department. We know Butler skipped the plane ride and his physical. We've heard highly credible reports that Jimmy, at a minimum, expressed his desire to play elsewhere and that he was not inclined to re-sign way back in the early summer. We all read reports in early May that Butler wasn't happy. We had media reports earlier this summer in which Jimmy expressed that he didn't like KAT or Wiggins. You don't pay a top executive millions a year to just respond to the obvious. You pay them to think, to anticipate, to understand and read the signs and then to take action on those cues. And in this instance, the cues and clues Thibodeau had thrust in his face weren't exactly subtle. Thibidoeau failed miserably as PBO over the past 5 months. He should be fired.
Wolfson just said that these leaks spread all over are an attempt to goad Taylor into taking a shitty deal, Thibs certainly failed in his move to bring Jimmy in and keep him but I had suspected a lot of this "Thibs can't let go of Jimmy and is going against Taylor" crap was embellished to say the least.
