Butler out against Portland

[AbeVigodaLive]

Let me know when Butler is traded so I can start watching again.

Thanks.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Let me know when Butler is traded so I can start watching again.

Thanks.

But why wait, Abe? You can get a preview of life without Butler in fine efforts like last night. You're missing out on some terrific basketball.

(Oh, I forgot. The "distraction" of the Butler drama is causing these snowflakes to play poorly, and everything is going to be better when we get Josh Richardson. Sorry, I forgot the prevailing narrative for a moment.)

[AbeVigodaLive]

Let me know when Butler is traded so I can start watching again.

Thanks.

But why wait, Abe? You can get a preview of life without Butler in fine efforts like last night. You're missing out on some terrific basketball.

(Oh, I forgot. The "distraction" of the Butler drama is causing these snowflakes to play poorly, and everything is going to be better when we get Josh Richardson. Sorry, I forgot the prevailing narrative for a moment.)

Whether or not Richardson is a worthwhile piece in a possible trade is entirely debatable...

What can't be debated is the residual effect one man is having on the entire organization as he takes it hostage.

I can't recall a situation like this in pro sports where a guy chooses when he wants to play... denigrates everybody involved in the organization... and is held without negative consequences.

I also can't imagine that playing well with any player in pro sports. The closest thing I can recall is when Wilt Chamberlain used to decide when to practice... and when he'd always blame his teammates after big losses. And what happened? His team repeatedly lost as favorites when the games really mattered.

It's just not sustainable. More importantly, expecting anything more than team-wide malaise at this point is just not realistic.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Let me know when Butler is traded so I can start watching again.

Thanks.

But why wait, Abe? You can get a preview of life without Butler in fine efforts like last night. You're missing out on some terrific basketball.

(Oh, I forgot. The "distraction" of the Butler drama is causing these snowflakes to play poorly, and everything is going to be better when we get Josh Richardson. Sorry, I forgot the prevailing narrative for a moment.)

Whether or not Richardson is a worthwhile piece in a possible trade is entirely debatable...

What can't be debated is the residual effect one man is having on the entire organization as he takes it hostage.

I can't recall a situation like this in pro sports where a guy chooses when he wants to play... denigrates everybody involved in the organization... and is held without negative consequences.

I also can't imagine that playing well with any player in pro sports. The closest thing I can recall is when Wilt Chamberlain used to decide when to practice... and when he'd always blame his teammates after big losses. And what happened? His team repeatedly lost as favorites when the games really mattered.

It's just not sustainable. More importantly, expecting anything more than team-wide malaise at this point is just not realistic.

Great point about Wilt...so telling that perhaps the greatest 2-way player in the history of the game never met with much team success. Says a lot about him as a teammate.

I agree that it is shameful how the Wolves are allowing Butler to behave, and his behavior is indefensible. But if our players are actually letting him affect the quality of their play when he's gone, it tells us a lot about them. The kind of player I want on my team wants to show Butler he's wrong...that they can play well without him. But instead they seem to go into a sad funk when he is gone (with the exception of the Utah game). Some of the games in which Jimmy played, like the Laker game, have been really fun to watch. But almost all the games he has missed have been disastrous. I'm afraid the Utah game was fool's good, and I'm a little embarrassed I fell for the good performance and got excited about life after Butler. I sense last night is a better indicator of how the season is going to go after he is gone...more 30-point losses and enthusiasm on this board for a rookie who is shooting 37%.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Let me know when Butler is traded so I can start watching again.

Thanks.

But why wait, Abe? You can get a preview of life without Butler in fine efforts like last night. You're missing out on some terrific basketball.

(Oh, I forgot. The "distraction" of the Butler drama is causing these snowflakes to play poorly, and everything is going to be better when we get Josh Richardson. Sorry, I forgot the prevailing narrative for a moment.)

Whether or not Richardson is a worthwhile piece in a possible trade is entirely debatable...

What can't be debated is the residual effect one man is having on the entire organization as he takes it hostage.

I can't recall a situation like this in pro sports where a guy chooses when he wants to play... denigrates everybody involved in the organization... and is held without negative consequences.

I also can't imagine that playing well with any player in pro sports. The closest thing I can recall is when Wilt Chamberlain used to decide when to practice... and when he'd always blame his teammates after big losses. And what happened? His team repeatedly lost as favorites when the games really mattered.

It's just not sustainable. More importantly, expecting anything more than team-wide malaise at this point is just not realistic.

Great point about Wilt...so telling that perhaps the greatest 2-way player in the history of the game never met with much team success. Says a lot about him as a teammate.

I agree that it is shameful how the Wolves are allowing Butler to behave, and his behavior is indefensible. But if our players are actually letting him affect the quality of their play when he's gone, it tells us a lot about them. The kind of player I want on my team wants to show Butler he's wrong...that they can play well without him. But instead they seem to go into a sad funk when he is gone (with the exception of the Utah game). Some of the games in which Jimmy played, like the Laker game, have been really fun to watch. But almost all the games he has missed have been disastrous. I'm afraid the Utah game was fool's good, and I'm a little embarrassed I fell for the good performance and got excited about life after Butler. I sense last night is a better indicator of how the season is going to go after he is gone...more 30-point losses and enthusiasm on this board for a rookie who is shooting 37%.

While I agree with you in theory... as I said, I don't think it's realistic for today's athletes to be meeting this challenge head-on, considering...

- The two "stars" were paid like superstars already... one of them despite never even showing the potential to be a superstar on the court.
- Right or wrong... the NBA is largely an integral part of the social media world... and the Wolves, sans Butler, have been mocked and ridiculed at nearly every turn... while Butler has actually been praised in some circles.
- FOR YEARS... we've talked about how young these guys are as an excuse for on-the-court inefficiencies. Wouldn't that age + immaturity + resiliency be even more telling in an entirely foreign situation like this where they feel upstaged or outright abandoned by their organization?

I'm disappointed that Wiggins + Towns and others seem soft. But I can't say I'm surprised. In fact, I'd be surprised if there was a single team in the league that would be handling this situation well right now.
-

[ItsJustSoSab]

It comes down to who you think has the will and desire to be better. Wiggins has had years, I'll take Okogie

I mean I probably would also. But why rush Okogie into something he is not yet. Currently Wiggins is still the better player. Okogie has a chance (probably a good chance) to become a better player than Wiggins but lets cool the jets on how good Okogie is currently. Right now he is a quality high energy role player, nothing more. Lets have him excel at that in his rookie year.

oh, Wiggins is a better player right now. No doubt. I was responding to to SP's question of who would you take for the future. Wiggins could be great, but is slightly above average most nights (great on 1 out of 10 games) and I've given up on him ever being consistently great. Okogie at least has the tools, motor and heart to do it. Doesn't mean he will....but at least I'll enjoy watching him run past a walking Wiggins

[Lipoli390]

Let me know when Butler is traded so I can start watching again.

Thanks.

But why wait, Abe? You can get a preview of life without Butler in fine efforts like last night. You're missing out on some terrific basketball.

(Oh, I forgot. The "distraction" of the Butler drama is causing these snowflakes to play poorly, and everything is going to be better when we get Josh Richardson. Sorry, I forgot the prevailing narrative for a moment.)

Whether or not Richardson is a worthwhile piece in a possible trade is entirely debatable...

What can't be debated is the residual effect one man is having on the entire organization as he takes it hostage.

I can't recall a situation like this in pro sports where a guy chooses when he wants to play... denigrates everybody involved in the organization... and is held without negative consequences.

I also can't imagine that playing well with any player in pro sports. The closest thing I can recall is when Wilt Chamberlain used to decide when to practice... and when he'd always blame his teammates after big losses. And what happened? His team repeatedly lost as favorites when the games really mattered.

It's just not sustainable. More importantly, expecting anything more than team-wide malaise at this point is just not realistic.

Great point about Wilt...so telling that perhaps the greatest 2-way player in the history of the game never met with much team success. Says a lot about him as a teammate.

I agree that it is shameful how the Wolves are allowing Butler to behave, and his behavior is indefensible. But if our players are actually letting him affect the quality of their play when he's gone, it tells us a lot about them. The kind of player I want on my team wants to show Butler he's wrong...that they can play well without him. But instead they seem to go into a sad funk when he is gone (with the exception of the Utah game). Some of the games in which Jimmy played, like the Laker game, have been really fun to watch. But almost all the games he has missed have been disastrous. I'm afraid the Utah game was fool's good, and I'm a little embarrassed I fell for the good performance and got excited about life after Butler. I sense last night is a better indicator of how the season is going to go after he is gone...more 30-point losses and enthusiasm on this board for a rookie who is shooting 37%.

While I agree with you in theory... as I said, I don't think it's realistic for today's athletes to be meeting this challenge head-on, considering...

- The two "stars" were paid like superstars already... one of them despite never even showing the potential to be a superstar on the court.
- Right or wrong... the NBA is largely an integral part of the social media world... and the Wolves, sans Butler, have been mocked and ridiculed at nearly every turn... while Butler has actually been praised in some circles.
- FOR YEARS... we've talked about how young these guys are as an excuse for on-the-court inefficiencies. Wouldn't that age + immaturity + resiliency be even more telling in an entirely foreign situation like this where they feel upstaged or outright abandoned by their organization?

I'm disappointed that Wiggins + Towns and others seem soft. But I can't say I'm surprised. In fact, I'd be surprised if there was a single team in the league that would be handling this situation well right now.
-

I'm watching the Clippers game. Moments ago, Jim Peterson said "chemistry matters." I don't know what, if any, impact the Butler situation is having on the Wolves team chemistry. If nothing else, not knowing whether or when a key teammate, Butler, is going to decide to play has to have at least some negative impact on the team's chemistry. The inequity of the coaching staff and management allowing Butler to do what no other player would be allowed to do, probably negatively impacts team chemistry.

But here's the thing. I don't care what impact he's having on team chemistry. What I care about is the FACT that Jimmy wants out and won't resign here next summer. I care that the longer the Wolves wait to trade him, the longer they delay moving, developing as a team this season and chart a course forward.

As for the Wolves without Butler, they were great against the Jazz last week without Butler and Teague. And let's recall that the Wolves looked horrible a number of times last season with Butler, including home losses to Atlanta and Philadelphia. Of course, we're a better team when Butler is playing. But he plays when he wants and doesn't want to play here. It's time to move on. Trade Butler and get a good young player along with a couple draft picks in return. Then replace Thibodeau, develop Okogie and draft well.