monsterpile wrote:Thinking about this deal from Philly's side I think it's a pretty good gamble for them. Saric was a guy they were going to have to pay some money at some point if he even fit. A couple points the Dunc'd On guys made was the top FAs available for this offseason was looking like they might have missed out anyway. Plus shipping out Covington and Saric butler's Cap hold is like 30 million so they could still have some cap space (around 20 million) to work with in the summer to add guys or bring back players they already have. They also mentioned that even if Butler's contract gets to be bad doesn't he road they said if they strike out on the big FAs...overpaying Butler because he isn't as good a few seasons from now might be better than ending up overpaying some just decent players or not getting a guy they ultimately need to get to a championship level.
As for the fit either the young players...I think Butler and Embiid will mesh better personality wise better than Towns and Butler did. Both like to troll people and are a little weird. Embiid ain't gonna back down and will probably love the back and forth with Butler etc. Embiid plays stellar defense so that helps. Embiid and Simmons already won without a guy like Butler so they should be more ready to win now so that should make Butler happy. On the floor Butler is is probably a little better 3 point shooter than he gets credit for and Simmons and Embiid COULD feed him for some easy looks if he lets them. We will see how it works. I'm not sure I would have done the deal but Butler is a heck of player even with the obvious downsides.
Why wouldn't you do the deal?
I watched the Sixers a decent amount last year at times. This year i havent. Part of my thinking is Covington is the perfect complimentary player and Butler is...Um well I think he might not be as much of a problem as it may seem but it's still worrisome. If Fultz isn't gonna be any very good that changes how I feel. There seem to be plenty of people that don't think Fultz is gonna be good but I haven't watched him play for more than parts of a couple games. One of the dunc'd on guys said they should shop him now if there is any type of market for him since he is expensive as a 1st overall pick and with Butler there his value isn't likely to increase.
I think Philly might have some other avenues to more naturally get better without Butler but like my lack of knowledge on Fultz's future I could be wrong about their path to getting better in other ways. Ultimately I would be conflicted about the move (because my lack of sense about their roster etc) but again I said it's likely a good gamble I'm certainly not against it. Like I said ultimately Butler is a heck of a player.
We waited all this time for this??!! This has Thibodeau's fingerprints and Taylor's stupidity all over it. This deal was clearly designed to maximize the Wolves chances of winning now, rather than building for the future around KAT and Okogie. Covington is 28 years old with no additional upside. He's not much of a ballhandler, so he's not an ideal wing for today's NBA, especially when paired with Wiggins. Saric has one year left on his contract after this season. Either he'll continue to play the way he has so far this season, in which case I wouldn't want him to stay or he'll command a salary too high for the Wolves to keep.
A 2022 2nd round pick?? Why even bother. The Sixers have two second round picks in 2019, Chicago's and Sacramentos, as well as their own 1st round pick. They have Miami's unprotected 1st round pick in 2021. Are you telling me the Sixers were willing to forego Butler if it meant giving up either the Chicago or Sacramento 2nd rounders for 2019? The Wolves should have at least gotten Chicago's 2nd rounder, which will be a nice pick next June. Honestly, I'd rather have that Miami pick in 2021 than Saric. I know there are some who like this deal. And I guess we should all be relieved that the ordeal is over. But this deal is why Glen should have fired and replaced Thibodeau before dealing Butler. This is not good, folks.
monsterpile wrote:Thinking about this deal from Philly's side I think it's a pretty good gamble for them. Saric was a guy they were going to have to pay some money at some point if he even fit. A couple points the Dunc'd On guys made was the top FAs available for this offseason was looking like they might have missed out anyway. Plus shipping out Covington and Saric butler's Cap hold is like 30 million so they could still have some cap space (around 20 million) to work with in the summer to add guys or bring back players they already have. They also mentioned that even if Butler's contract gets to be bad doesn't he road they said if they strike out on the big FAs...overpaying Butler because he isn't as good a few seasons from now might be better than ending up overpaying some just decent players or not getting a guy they ultimately need to get to a championship level.
As for the fit either the young players...I think Butler and Embiid will mesh better personality wise better than Towns and Butler did. Both like to troll people and are a little weird. Embiid ain't gonna back down and will probably love the back and forth with Butler etc. Embiid plays stellar defense so that helps. Embiid and Simmons already won without a guy like Butler so they should be more ready to win now so that should make Butler happy. On the floor Butler is is probably a little better 3 point shooter than he gets credit for and Simmons and Embiid COULD feed him for some easy looks if he lets them. We will see how it works. I'm not sure I would have done the deal but Butler is a heck of player even with the obvious downsides.
Why wouldn't you do the deal?
I watched the Sixers a decent amount last year at times. This year i havent. Part of my thinking is Covington is the perfect complimentary player and Butler is...Um well I think he might not be as much of a problem as it may seem but it's still worrisome. If Fultz isn't gonna be any very good that changes how I feel. There seem to be plenty of people that don't think Fultz is gonna be good but I haven't watched him play for more than parts of a couple games. One of the dunc'd on guys said they should shop him now if there is any type of market for him since he is expensive as a 1st overall pick and with Butler there his value isn't likely to increase.
I think Philly might have some other avenues to more naturally get better without Butler but like my lack of knowledge on Fultz's future I could be wrong about their path to getting better in other ways. Ultimately I would be conflicted about the move (because my lack of sense about their roster etc) but again I said it's likely a good gamble I'm certainly not against it. Like I said ultimately Butler is a heck of a player.
lipoli390 wrote:We waited all this time for this??!! This has Thibodeau's fingerprints and Taylor's stupidity all over it. This deal was clearly designed to maximize the Wolves chances of winning now, rather than building for the future around KAT and Okogie. Covington is 28 years old with no additional upside. He's not much of a ballhandler, so he's not an ideal wing for today's NBA, especially when paired with Wiggins. Saric has one year left on his contract after this season. Either he'll continue to play the way he has so far this season, in which case I wouldn't want him to stay or he'll command a salary too high for the Wolves to keep.
A 2022 2nd round pick?? Why even bother. The Sixers have two second round picks in 2019, Chicago's and Sacramentos, as well as their own 1st round pick. They have Miami's unprotected 1st round pick in 2021. Are you telling me the Sixers were willing to forego Butler if it meant giving up either the Chicago or Sacramento 2nd rounders for 2019? The Wolves should have at least gotten Chicago's 2nd rounder, which will be a nice pick next June. Honestly, I'd rather have that Miami pick in 2021 than Saric. I know there are some who like this deal. And I guess we should all be relieved that the ordeal is over. But this deal is why Glen should have fired and replaced Thibodeau before dealing Butler. This is not good, folks.
How is this not good?
We receive a true 3-d guy for years. We increase our bench big effectiveness/flexibility.
khans2k5 wrote:I'm ok with this. We got 2 out of 5 guys from a top 5 defense a season ago and Covington was top 5 of all players in the league. They fit around what we have. They are both extremely position versatile defensively. This is all in on Towns and Wiggins. I would see if maybe we could look to move Taj and Teague now to get a better PG. Teague isn't really built to be a top 2-3 option. It's not great, but it's not a bad deal either and we should improve defensively with these two. Richardson is better than Covington, but Saric is better than BAM so I think it's pretty even to the Miami deal.
I think Bam will end up better than Saric, but right now Saric is definitely better if we overlook how Saric has played so far this season. I also think Richardson is a better fit than Covington because Richardson is a good ballhandler and that's what we need in a wing playing next to Wiggins. I also liked the idea of getting a 2019 first round pick, which was apparently included in the Miami deal. The only downside to the Miami deal was the Waiters contract. I'd rather have that contract along with Richardson, Bam and the 2019 first rounder than Covington and Saric. My guess is that Covington's defense won't look nearly as good on this tame under Thibs as it looked with the Sixers under Brown.
monsterpile wrote:Thinking about this deal from Philly's side I think it's a pretty good gamble for them. Saric was a guy they were going to have to pay some money at some point if he even fit. A couple points the Dunc'd On guys made was the top FAs available for this offseason was looking like they might have missed out anyway. Plus shipping out Covington and Saric butler's Cap hold is like 30 million so they could still have some cap space (around 20 million) to work with in the summer to add guys or bring back players they already have. They also mentioned that even if Butler's contract gets to be bad doesn't he road they said if they strike out on the big FAs...overpaying Butler because he isn't as good a few seasons from now might be better than ending up overpaying some just decent players or not getting a guy they ultimately need to get to a championship level.
As for the fit either the young players...I think Butler and Embiid will mesh better personality wise better than Towns and Butler did. Both like to troll people and are a little weird. Embiid ain't gonna back down and will probably love the back and forth with Butler etc. Embiid plays stellar defense so that helps. Embiid and Simmons already won without a guy like Butler so they should be more ready to win now so that should make Butler happy. On the floor Butler is is probably a little better 3 point shooter than he gets credit for and Simmons and Embiid COULD feed him for some easy looks if he lets them. We will see how it works. I'm not sure I would have done the deal but Butler is a heck of player even with the obvious downsides.
Why wouldn't you do the deal?
I watched the Sixers a decent amount last year at times. This year i havent. Part of my thinking is Covington is the perfect complimentary player and Butler is...Um well I think he might not be as much of a problem as it may seem but it's still worrisome. If Fultz isn't gonna be any very good that changes how I feel. There seem to be plenty of people that don't think Fultz is gonna be good but I haven't watched him play for more than parts of a couple games. One of the dunc'd on guys said they should shop him now if there is any type of market for him since he is expensive as a 1st overall pick and with Butler there his value isn't likely to increase.
I think Philly might have some other avenues to more naturally get better without Butler but like my lack of knowledge on Fultz's future I could be wrong about their path to getting better in other ways. Ultimately I would be conflicted about the move (because my lack of sense about their roster etc) but again I said it's likely a good gamble I'm certainly not against it. Like I said ultimately Butler is a heck of a player.
You spent ALOT of time talking about Fultz.
We aren't getting him.
I never thought we were getting Futlz I'm not sure why you got that from my post. My point was in answering your question was whether or not the Sixers had a path towards having enough star power and Fultz is the obvious guy to consider there.
lipoli390 wrote:We waited all this time for this??!! This has Thibodeau's fingerprints and Taylor's stupidity all over it. This deal was clearly designed to maximize the Wolves chances of winning now, rather than building for the future around KAT and Okogie. Covington is 28 years old with no additional upside. He's not much of a ballhandler, so he's not an ideal wing for today's NBA, especially when paired with Wiggins. Saric has one year left on his contract after this season. Either he'll continue to play the way he has so far this season, in which case I wouldn't want him to stay or he'll command a salary too high for the Wolves to keep.
A 2022 2nd round pick?? Why even bother. The Sixers have two second round picks in 2019, Chicago's and Sacramentos, as well as their own 1st round pick. They have Miami's unprotected 1st round pick in 2021. Are you telling me the Sixers were willing to forego Butler if it meant giving up either the Chicago or Sacramento 2nd rounders for 2019? The Wolves should have at least gotten Chicago's 2nd rounder, which will be a nice pick next June. Honestly, I'd rather have that Miami pick in 2021 than Saric. I know there are some who like this deal. And I guess we should all be relieved that the ordeal is over. But this deal is why Glen should have fired and replaced Thibodeau before dealing Butler. This is not good, folks.
How is this not good?
Personally I think that 2022 pick is a decent asset. It the best of the 2 of either the Sixers or Nuggets picks so you have 2 chances at a better pick not just one. Both teams will probably be good but you never know. Meanwhile that might be the draft where the kids can come straight to the NBA so there is some additional value there. Having lots of picks in day 2019 sounds good but sometimes you can have too many picks. Besides it's possible we move another player/s this season and get another 2nd rounder so one farther down the road works for me. We have ended up with two pretty valueable 2nd round picks with this franchise via trade. One brought us Pek and the other the ability to go get Tyus. Not too shabby.
khans2k5 wrote:I'm ok with this. We got 2 out of 5 guys from a top 5 defense a season ago and Covington was top 5 of all players in the league. They fit around what we have. They are both extremely position versatile defensively. This is all in on Towns and Wiggins. I would see if maybe we could look to move Taj and Teague now to get a better PG. Teague isn't really built to be a top 2-3 option. It's not great, but it's not a bad deal either and we should improve defensively with these two. Richardson is better than Covington, but Saric is better than BAM so I think it's pretty even to the Miami deal.
I think Bam will end up better than Saric, but right now Saric is definitely better if we overlook how Saric has played so far this season. I also think Richardson is a better fit than Covington because Richardson is a good ballhandler and that's what we need in a wing playing next to Wiggins. I also liked the idea of getting a 2019 first round pick, which was apparently included in the Miami deal. The only downside to the Miami deal was the Waiters contract. I'd rather have that contract along with Richardson, Bam and the 2019 first rounder than Covington and Saric. My guess is that Covington's defense won't look nearly as good on this tame under Thibs as it looked with the Sixers under Brown.
I understand where you are coming from I really do Lip. I would say that there was no reported trade that involved Bam. Fans like us always wanted him added but there were no reports that he was ever available.
I would feel more comfortable in the trade if we had a savvier front office. I like that Bayless and Taj equals 22 million in expiring but I don't think our front office is good enough to turn those expirings into an asset.
In the end we added solid role players, now the question is can the wolves draft well. We added no bad salary back but we added no needle moving players
Why is this deal not good? Because it's focused on the present, not the future. Covington is Butler-light, but not younger and with no upside. Saric is an enigma who has regressed so far this season. This team needs quickness and athleticism, neither of which can be found in Saric. This team needs ballhandling at the other wing position given Wiggins' utter lack of ballhandling ability, yet Covington is not a particularly good ballhandler. Meanwhile, we get no draft picks in return. Oh, I know we get Philly's or Denver's 2022 second rounder. That's three years down the road and likely to be in the bottom half of the second round. It's the sort of pick you can buy for cash. Including that pick should be embarrassing to the Wolves front office.
I agree with lip. This deal is terrible. What exactly are we trying to do. We want to be a team thats late in the lottery or with some luck sneaking into the playoffs. You need to do what boston did and get assets. We got a guy who will leave after next year and covington who will be ok but in all reality this team is going nowhere. NOWHERE. Its been a long time since i have been this unexcited about a wolves team. Is the plan for thibs to be able to get some wins here and there or for us to actually build a contender. Disappointing is the word.
