KiwiMatt wrote:Both Josh Richardson and Bam Adebayo have big games for the Heat today:
Richardson = 25 points on 9-16 (4-7 from 3), 4 rebounds and 3 assists. Solid.
Adebayo = 26 points on 11-17, 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 5 blocks and 3 steals. Woah!
Yes it's only preseason but surely this bumps up there value and give Miami a bit of leverage at bargaining table.
Wow, that trumps anything Jimmy's done this preseason. I'll take those two guys and call it a day.
When the news first broke that Butler wanted to be traded, I commented that the Wolves needed to deal him quickly. I made the point that our leverage wasn't likely to increase and could decrease. There are too many fators that could drive down Butler's value relative to the players we want in return. Richardson and Adebayo playing well is one example. The dysfunction at the Wolves practice with Butler is another example. Also, Butler could get hurt in practice. Teams get focused on and emamoured of the players they currently have. This is not good. Thibodeau isn't even a good head coach and that's his specialty. He's certainly not someone we should rely on for high stakes trade negotiations.
To be fair to thibs (he should be ripped constantly), Richardson wasn't even on the table until the last few days. He still shouldn't take a terrible deal
We don't really know how long Richardson has been on the table. The latest report indicates that both Richardson and Bam were in the Miami offer the Wolves just turned down. My point all along is that the deal should be done before the season starts. I just don't trust Thibodeau to handle this situation.
Fair.
Now if Bam and Richardson were on the table, then thibs deserves to be ripped.
But what Stien reported that Richardson, lottery protection 1st and filler (what would of been waiters). If that is the best offer i'm happy he didn't do it
KiwiMatt wrote:Both Josh Richardson and Bam Adebayo have big games for the Heat today:
Richardson = 25 points on 9-16 (4-7 from 3), 4 rebounds and 3 assists. Solid.
Adebayo = 26 points on 11-17, 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 5 blocks and 3 steals. Woah!
Yes it's only preseason but surely this bumps up there value and give Miami a bit of leverage at bargaining table.
Wow, that trumps anything Jimmy's done this preseason. I'll take those two guys and call it a day.
When the news first broke that Butler wanted to be traded, I commented that the Wolves needed to deal him quickly. I made the point that our leverage wasn't likely to increase and could decrease. There are too many fators that could drive down Butler's value relative to the players we want in return. Richardson and Adebayo playing well is one example. The dysfunction at the Wolves practice with Butler is another example. Also, Butler could get hurt in practice. Teams get focused on and emamoured of the players they currently have. This is not good. Thibodeau isn't even a good head coach and that's his specialty. He's certainly not someone we should rely on for high stakes trade negotiations.
To be fair to thibs (he should be ripped constantly), Richardson wasn't even on the table until the last few days. He still shouldn't take a terrible deal
We don't really know how long Richardson has been on the table. The latest report indicates that both Richardson and Bam were in the Miami offer the Wolves just turned down. My point all along is that the deal should be done before the season starts. I just don't trust Thibodeau to handle this situation.
Fair.
Now if Bam and Richardson were on the table, then thibs deserves to be ripped.
But what Stien reported that Richardson, lottery protection 1st and filler (what would of been waiters). If that is the best offer i'm happy he didn't do it
Yeah, I wouldn't want that deal either. I'm starting to come around on Richardson/Adebayo as a fair return, although I admit my evolution may be a knee-jerk reaction to last night's box score.
TheGrey08 wrote:
I'm no Butler apologist and I was ready to see him gone so this crap can be over, but people acting like they know who Butler is, and everything that goes on behind closed doors is a tad ridiculous. None of us have any idea what kind of person he truly is and lets not forget what the media does with things. In that interview he just didn't sound like he was bullshitting or sugarcoating things. I could tell he wasn't saying everything to keep some stuff internally, but he wasn't really bashing any of them. He flat out said he just wants people to call it like it is, be direct, have accountability and to play hard. None of that is too much to ask from a group of teammates IMO. I also found it interesting when he talked about knowing guys and how he watches tape. Guys who watch that much tape clearly give a damn and want their team/teammates to succeed.
As for Towns & Wiggins, I completely agree they should keep quiet (don't add more drama) and just SHOW US (and their teammates) something besides some offense. I have zero problem with a hard nosed vet like Butler (who completely fits Thibs style of coaching from everything we've heard I might add) being direct and calling shit out when he sees it. He even said in the interview that's what he expects of anyone of his teammates when he does something wrong.
If KAT and Wiggins continue the lackadaisical defensive effort this team is going nowhere. We've heard it time and time again, they have the talent and ability to be GREAT players who play good defense, but they just aren't putting in the effort to do so. It's no surprise it bothers a player like Butler.
All these details tell me he truly does care, wants his teammates to fulfill their potential and to win.
EDIT: I also meant to mention that it was also reported that many including the vets on the team thought it was the best practice this season and what Butler brought to practice was a good thing. That to me is telling.
The problem I have with Butler's truth telling was it was absolutely set up. This was completely premeditated and he admits twice in this interview it wasn't how he should have handled it and "I can't help it" but it's cause he loves the game so much and ah shucks... my perspective is that's minipalative BS. I'm not saying that a lot of what Butler said isn't true it probably is but I think there is BS there also. This guy seemed to have his mind made up and that doesn't reflect well on Thibs. It makes me wonder if Wiggins and Towns don't have as much of a beef with Butler as we thought it was more Butler being done with those guys. Do I think they liked Butler? Probably not but I think Jimmy is the guy that doesn't want to be here.
Another ridiculous narrative that's being put out there is that the Wolves didn't pay Jimmy and paid Towns. If have heard ZERO reports that the Wolves weren't willing to pay him his 5 years 190million. It seems like he wanted them to move heaven and earth which would include paying a bit of assets dumping Dieng and Teague who he is also friends with. That's such BS and why it gets really frustrating watching some of these media types.
No doubt the interview was pre-planned. It was actually stated in an article this morning. I'm sure he had a general idea of topics to touch on, but I don't think everything he wanted to say was pre-planned. There was a part about how if guys had a problem with something he did in practice, he expects people to come up to him and say so and if he was wrong he'd have said yeah you are probably right, etc. That tells me part of what came out was due to someone leaking what happened in practice and likely it being a player.
I definitely think it's a situation where we can point out both good and bad things from it. I don't think it's fair to praise it as completely good or completely bad, but you have to hate when our local teams end up in the national media in drama filled stories. It sucks.
Practice is canceled today, including media avaliblity. YA LETS JUST HAVE YOUR BEST PLAYER DESTROY THE FRANCHISE AND LETS NOT TRY AND GET SOME GOOD WILL BACK WITH THE MEDIA AND TRY AND TAKE THE FIRE OUT.
THIS ORGANIZATION FROM THE TOP DOWN IS SO FUCKING PATHETIC.
khans2k5 wrote:
How do you quit on the team after the season is already over? He didn't get on a plane for Christ's sake. Oh by the way those same teammates who might have a problem with that didn't even interact with each other this summer at all so don't try to play this he's the bad teammate and they're all dandy. None of them give a shit about each other except for the veterans who actually seem to like Jimmy and not Wiggins and Towns. He hitched his own ride after the season was over. You're just overdramatizing what actually went down. If anyone was actually mad that he didn't take a plane back with them then they need to grow the fuck up. The veterans seem to be fine with Jimmy and actually want him back even after all this shit has gone down. That's what professionals do and how they act. They look past small shit like not riding home with them in the heat of the moment. They show up to work to win games.
If Jimmy was such a bad person and teammate and quit on the team he wouldn't have the support of the coaching staff and his teammates at all and yet there only seem to be 2 who have a problem with him right now. Oh and those 2 just happen to be the spoiled brats not getting their way after they signed 30 million dollar deals. Jimmy and Thibs will be gone soon enough though and you can go back to enjoying a 30 win team run by spoiled brats who have no leadership skills. Just don't come back here bitching about it when it happens.
How do you quit on the team after the season is over? Really? Everybody else is on the plane. And how about demanding a trade? Is that not quitting on the team too?
The way you view things I'm guessing you've never been on an athletic team to be able to understand the dynamics of the group. At least not above a rec level. But you're clueless if you think all the vets on the team support his antics. Are you making that judgement by what Teague said today? What's he supposed to say? "Butler is an ass and we're just going to tolerate him as long as he's here"? You're problem is you don't believe the stupid shit you say, but you just don't like people to step up and challenge you. You're not always right Khans. There's no shame in being disagreed with once in a while.
No one should like the fact the teams best player bailed after the final playoff game and didn't fly home with the team, but I don't think it's fair to ignore the lead up to it either. If you are a guy working your ass off all season and you see guys more talented/skilled than you not giving it their all, even in the playoffs, I'm sure you'd be pissed too. From his perspective he may have felt they quit on the team and he wanted time away. It doesn't make it all okay, I'm just trying to see things from both sides.
The fact is, the coaches and front office let this all happen. If they truly have been beating around the bush, not being direct or holding players accountable then they are failing to do their jobs and are not creating a winning atmosphere. I put most of this situation on them at this point.
sjm34 wrote:
Watching Beadle, Rose, and SVG last night, one of them stated that BAM and JRich were already part of the offer to the wolves.
If that report is true, then I'm sick to my stomach. That would mean Thibodeau really is obsessed with keeping Butler. As I think about it, the report is probably accurate. Recall that, before the deal fell through, Richardson and Bam were being held out of games. Nuff said.
For all we know the deal involved the Heat trying to push 1 or 2 terrible contracts on the Wolves (including Whiteside) while refusing to give a 1st rounder for doing so? I don't think JRich and BAM alone are worth taking 1 or 2 horrible contracts without a 1st rounder.
In a meeting on Monday, Butler told Thibodeau this is how it would go, sources said. He wasn't going to sit by and be quiet and have his desires ignored. Butler had also made clear that he wanted to sit down to discuss several issues with Towns, including the timing of his contract signing, as a means to challenge the young center about being up front and honest, league sources said. It is unclear if that meeting has taken place.
- via The Athletic
This makes it sound like a trade might not be a foregone conclusion.
I found that interesting too. If things are so broken they can't be fixed, why would you ask to sit down with KAT?
kekgeek1 wrote:Glen Taylor Sucks so bad.
Practice is canceled today, including media avaliblity. YA LETS JUST HAVE YOUR BEST PLAYER DESTROY THE FRANCHISE AND LETS NOT TRY AND GET SOME GOOD WILL BACK WITH THE MEDIA AND TRY AND TAKE THE FIRE OUT.
THIS ORGANIZATION FROM THE TOP DOWN IS SO FUCKING PATHETIC.
yeah.. that's really irritating. All it does it make the situation look worse and feeds into the notion that the situation is completely broken and that the Wolves are desperate, which doesn't help them unload him at all. Just seems stupid to me, unless there's some secret team meeting.
I'll say this about the possible report about Richardson and Bam on the table. Jalen the other day said that Miami doesn't have enough to get a guy like Butler. Part of that was him saying he doesn't think they should give up all the assets it would take to get him because they don't have a team around him. So him suggesting a better package was available makes sense because that's what he thinks it would take.
SVG is a Thins guy and one spot I saw on sportscenter he basically said he would do what Thins is doing now he would hold o to butler until there is a deal worth doing. Interesting right? A couple media people actually in Thibs corner?!?! Lol
Jon K said on his podcast yesterday he says when it comes to confirming trade offers he said he was telling Doogie (Wolfson) that this is the hardest to nail anything down the sides you talk to whether it's the Wolves or Butler's side or other teams...the views are so wildly different on what was talked about he basically has no idea what to think. He also said despite all this stuff Thibs stubbornness COULD still pay off because league folks might be like...damn he is really gonna bring in Jimmy and have him play. This podcast was before the circus began though. Lol
In a meeting on Monday, Butler told Thibodeau this is how it would go, sources said. He wasn't going to sit by and be quiet and have his desires ignored. Butler had also made clear that he wanted to sit down to discuss several issues with Towns, including the timing of his contract signing, as a means to challenge the young center about being up front and honest, league sources said. It is unclear if that meeting has taken place.
- via The Athletic
This makes it sound like a trade might not be a foregone conclusion.
I found that interesting too. If things are so broken they can't be fixed, why would you ask to sit down with KAT?
kekgeek1 wrote:Glen Taylor Sucks so bad.
Practice is canceled today, including media avaliblity. YA LETS JUST HAVE YOUR BEST PLAYER DESTROY THE FRANCHISE AND LETS NOT TRY AND GET SOME GOOD WILL BACK WITH THE MEDIA AND TRY AND TAKE THE FIRE OUT.
THIS ORGANIZATION FROM THE TOP DOWN IS SO FUCKING PATHETIC.
yeah.. that's really irritating. All it does it make the situation look worse and feeds into the notion that the situation is completely broken and that the Wolves are desperate, which doesn't help them unload him at all. Just seems stupid to me, unless there's some secret team meeting.
I'm pretty sure they are all going out for a fun time at the local Chucky Cheese or something like that. It's gonna be a great team building excercise. Also Wiggins will find his perfect shooting touch on one of those basketball shooting games. Lol
