Jimmy Butler traded to Philly

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

Yeah, I'm confused by the "poor fit" argument as well, but ultimately what you think of this haul comes down to your opinion of Dario Saric.

I think Saric is one of the best young players that Minnesota could have acquired in any Jimmy Butler trade, and the Wolves got a 1st-Team All-Defense wing in addition to him. I too would have liked to get a first-round pick as the third piece of this trade, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Minnesota also didn't take back any bad contracts, which is a huge win for the Wolves FO.

I think Saric is really going to open a lot of eyes in Minnesota. "The Homie" -- as he was referred to by Philadelphia faithful -- is a well-rounded big that can basically do it all at a legitimate 6'10, 225 lbs.

In his sophomore season last year, he averaged 14.6 PPG (45.3 FG%, 39.3 3P%, 86.0 FT%), 6.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, and buried 2.0 3P/G in 29.6 MPG. That is hefty production across the board as the 3rd/4th/5th option most nights.

And if you weren't already excited by the above, I'll leave you with the following so you are truly aware of how unique Saric is right now in the league.

Only three players averaged 14.0+ PPG, 6.0+ RPG, 2.5+ APG, and 2.0+ 3P/G in 2017-18. One of them was a 23-year old Dario Saric. The other two were Kevin Durant (29) and DeMarcus Cousins (27). He's not necessarily a unicorn, but he's a damn good young player.

I think people are concerned about his fit defendively with kat.

I agree hes a good young player at a position of need for us.

[Lipoli390]

Yeah, I'm confused by the "poor fit" argument as well, but ultimately what you think of this haul comes down to your opinion of Dario Saric.

I think Saric is one of the best young players that Minnesota could have acquired in any Jimmy Butler trade, and the Wolves got a 1st-Team All-Defense wing in addition to him. I too would have liked to get a first-round pick as the third piece of this trade, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Minnesota also didn't take back any bad contracts, which is a huge win for the Wolves FO.

I think Saric is really going to open a lot of eyes in Minnesota. "The Homie" -- as he was referred to by Philadelphia faithful -- is a well-rounded big that can basically do it all at a legitimate 6'10, 225 lbs.

In his sophomore season last year, he averaged 14.6 PPG (45.3 FG%, 39.3 3P%, 86.0 FT%), 6.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, and buried 2.0 3P/G in 29.6 MPG. That is hefty production across the board as the 3rd/4th/5th option most nights.

And if you weren't already excited by the above, I'll leave you with the following so you are truly aware of how unique Saric is right now in the league.

Only three players averaged 14.0+ PPG, 6.0+ RPG, 2.5+ APG, and 2.0+ 3P/G in 2017-18. One of them was a 23-year old Dario Saric. The other two were Kevin Durant (29) and DeMarcus Cousins (27). He's not necessarily a unicorn, but he's a damn good young player.

Cam - I think you're right that Saric is the key to this deal.

Covington strikes me as a bad fit for two reasons. First, he is roughly Jimmy Butler's age, so he doesn't match up particularly well with the trajectory of our young core - KAT, possibly Okogie and maybe Wiggins. Second, his skill set strikes me as a poor fit next to Wiggins. Both are too similar in that neither one is a good ballhandler and neither one excels at creating shots for himself or others.

I like Saric's vintage as a young talent and I appreciate you posting his stats, which reminds me of how talented he is. My concern with Saric, however, is two-fold. First, I question his fit next to KAT because we end up with two bigs who are weak defensively. In my view, KAT needs to be paired with a tough defensive rim-protector at the other big position. Second, I'm concerned about the short-term horizon of Saric's contract. I just don't trust this organization to convince players to re-sign here, especially if the team doesn't win.

I could see this deal turning into a good one for the Wolves if Saric knocks it out of the park and re-signs here. But I continue to believe the right deal for the Wolves was one that brought in multiple assets with upside, which is why I preferred Richardson and Miami's 2019 1st round pick. The downside to that deal was Waiters' contract, but I think the Wolves should have taken it and figured out the salary issues later.

What troubles me even more, however, is the Wolves failure to get that Chicago 2nd round pick in this deal. It seems like a little thing, but it's these little things over time that ultimately distinguish good organizations from bad ones. There is simply no way the Sixers would have passed on this deal over Chicago's 2019 second rounder. The Wolves should have pushed for the Sixers' 2019 1st round pick and Miami's 2021 1st round pick, eventually settling on Chicago's 2019 second rounder.

[Monster]

Yeah, I'm confused by the "poor fit" argument as well, but ultimately what you think of this haul comes down to your opinion of Dario Saric.

I think Saric is one of the best young players that Minnesota could have acquired in any Jimmy Butler trade, and the Wolves got a 1st-Team All-Defense wing in addition to him. I too would have liked to get a first-round pick as the third piece of this trade, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Minnesota also didn't take back any bad contracts, which is a huge win for the Wolves FO.

I think Saric is really going to open a lot of eyes in Minnesota. "The Homie" -- as he was referred to by Philadelphia faithful -- is a well-rounded big that can basically do it all at a legitimate 6'10, 225 lbs.

In his sophomore season last year, he averaged 14.6 PPG (45.3 FG%, 39.3 3P%, 86.0 FT%), 6.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, and buried 2.0 3P/G in 29.6 MPG. That is hefty production across the board as the 3rd/4th/5th option most nights.

And if you weren't already excited by the above, I'll leave you with the following so you are truly aware of how unique Saric is right now in the league.

Only three players averaged 14.0+ PPG, 6.0+ RPG, 2.5+ APG, and 2.0+ 3P/G in 2017-18. One of them was a 23-year old Dario Saric. The other two were Kevin Durant (29) and DeMarcus Cousins (27). He's not necessarily a unicorn, but he's a damn good young player.

Cam - I think you're right that Saric is the key to this deal.

Covington strikes me as a bad fit for two reasons. First, he is roughly Jimmy Butler's age, so he doesn't match up particularly well with the trajectory of our young core - KAT, possibly Okogie and maybe Wiggins. Second, his skill set strikes me as a poor fit next to Wiggins. Both are too similar in that neither one is a good ballhandler and neither one excels at creating shots for himself or others.

I like Saric's vintage as a young talent and I appreciate you posting his stats, which reminds me of how talented he is. My concern with Saric, however, is two-fold. First, I question his fit next to KAT because we end up with two bigs who are weak defensively. In my view, KAT needs to be paired with a tough defensive rim-protector at the other big position. Second, I'm concerned about the short-term horizon of Saric's contract. I just don't trust this organization to convince players to re-sign here, especially if the team doesn't win.

I could see this deal turning into a good one for the Wolves if Saric knocks it out of the park and re-signs here. But I continue to believe the right deal for the Wolves was one that brought in multiple assets with upside, which is why I preferred Richardson and Miami's 2019 1st round pick. The downside to that deal was Waiters' contract, but I think the Wolves should have taken it and figured out the salary issues later.

What troubles me even more, however, is the Wolves failure to get that Chicago 2nd round pick in this deal. It seems like a little thing, but it's these little things over time that ultimately distinguish good organizations from bad ones. There is simply no way the Sixers would have passed on this deal over Chicago's 2019 second rounder. The Wolves should have pushed for the Sixers' 2019 1st round pick and Miami's 2021 1st round pick, eventually settling on Chicago's 2019 second rounder.

This team has needed defense and 3 point shooting on the wing for...pretty much the entire franchises history and now Covington who is about to turn 28 who was voted 1st team nba defense, can jack up and make 3's and was 8th in RPM last season signed to a bargain deal isn't good enough because he can't create his own shot? That's honestly kinda insane. If this guy is not worth having because of Wiggins...maybe we have the answer on Wiggins future here. Personally I find those guys intruiging together. You have 2 guys that are 6'8" or taller with 7' wingspans (Covington's is 7'1.5") on the wing. Remember back when the wolves used to roll out undersized lineups all the time? Not anymore. This roster whether Thibs is coaching it or the more modern coach we often hope for is ripe for playing fast and getting up a bunch of 3's. This is exciting stuff. This team isn't a finished product. That's fine but this deal gets us pieces to keep moving forward. If Okogie turns out to be a good player like we hope then we have a good problem with too many good wings or it makes it easy to deal one of them for value...or maybe to just dump Wiggins if he sucks. Covington and Saric by all reports are the type of guys you want on a team. They both work hard don't have an ego good guys etc etc. I think we are going to see some fun again with this group. Do we ultimately need another offensive guy that can create their shot? Yes I think so but we can figure that out as time goes on. Lots of talented teams have that problem...it turns out the Sixers as talented as they were needed a solution.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

Yeah, I'm confused by the "poor fit" argument as well, but ultimately what you think of this haul comes down to your opinion of Dario Saric.

I think Saric is one of the best young players that Minnesota could have acquired in any Jimmy Butler trade, and the Wolves got a 1st-Team All-Defense wing in addition to him. I too would have liked to get a first-round pick as the third piece of this trade, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Minnesota also didn't take back any bad contracts, which is a huge win for the Wolves FO.

I think Saric is really going to open a lot of eyes in Minnesota. "The Homie" -- as he was referred to by Philadelphia faithful -- is a well-rounded big that can basically do it all at a legitimate 6'10, 225 lbs.

In his sophomore season last year, he averaged 14.6 PPG (45.3 FG%, 39.3 3P%, 86.0 FT%), 6.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, and buried 2.0 3P/G in 29.6 MPG. That is hefty production across the board as the 3rd/4th/5th option most nights.

And if you weren't already excited by the above, I'll leave you with the following so you are truly aware of how unique Saric is right now in the league.

Only three players averaged 14.0+ PPG, 6.0+ RPG, 2.5+ APG, and 2.0+ 3P/G in 2017-18. One of them was a 23-year old Dario Saric. The other two were Kevin Durant (29) and DeMarcus Cousins (27). He's not necessarily a unicorn, but he's a damn good young player.

Cam - I think you're right that Saric is the key to this deal.

Covington strikes me as a bad fit for two reasons. First, he is roughly Jimmy Butler's age, so he doesn't match up particularly well with the trajectory of our young core - KAT, possibly Okogie and maybe Wiggins. Second, his skill set strikes me as a poor fit next to Wiggins. Both are too similar in that neither one is a good ballhandler and neither one excels at creating shots for himself or others.

I like Saric's vintage as a young talent and I appreciate you posting his stats, which reminds me of how talented he is. My concern with Saric, however, is two-fold. First, I question his fit next to KAT because we end up with two bigs who are weak defensively. In my view, KAT needs to be paired with a tough defensive rim-protector at the other big position. Second, I'm concerned about the short-term horizon of Saric's contract. I just don't trust this organization to convince players to re-sign here, especially if the team doesn't win.

I could see this deal turning into a good one for the Wolves if Saric knocks it out of the park and re-signs here. But I continue to believe the right deal for the Wolves was one that brought in multiple assets with upside, which is why I preferred Richardson and Miami's 2019 1st round pick. The downside to that deal was Waiters' contract, but I think the Wolves should have taken it and figured out the salary issues later.

What troubles me even more, however, is the Wolves failure to get that Chicago 2nd round pick in this deal. It seems like a little thing, but it's these little things over time that ultimately distinguish good organizations from bad ones. There is simply no way the Sixers would have passed on this deal over Chicago's 2019 second rounder. The Wolves should have pushed for the Sixers' 2019 1st round pick and Miami's 2021 1st round pick, eventually settling on Chicago's 2019 second rounder.

This team has needed defense and 3 point shooting on the wing for...pretty much the entire franchises history and now Covington who is about to turn 28 who was voted 1st team nba defense, can jack up and make 3's and was 8th in RPM last season signed to a bargain deal isn't good enough because he can't create his own shot? That's honestly kinda insane. If this guy is not worth having because of Wiggins...maybe we have the answer on Wiggins future here. Personally I find those guys intruiging together. You have 2 guys that are 6'8" or taller with 7' wingspans (Covington's is 7'1.5") on the wing. Remember back when the wolves used to roll out undersized lineups all the time? Not anymore. This roster whether Thibs is coaching it or the more modern coach we often hope for is ripe for playing fast and getting up a bunch of 3's. This is exciting stuff. This team isn't a finished product. That's fine but this deal gets us pieces to keep moving forward. If Okogie turns out to be a good player like we hope then we have a good problem with too many good wings or it makes it easy to deal one of them for value...or maybe to just dump Wiggins if he sucks. Covington and Saric by all reports are the type of guys you want on a team. They both work hard don't have an ego good guys etc etc. I think we are going to see some fun again with this group. Do we ultimately need another offensive guy that can create their shot? Yes I think so but we can figure that out as time goes on. Lots of talented teams have that problem...it turns out the Sixers as talented as they were needed a solution.

Covingtons age isnt as big a problem for me. Jimmy was a 1 or 2 option that carries alot of usage with like a 40 million dollar price tag as he ages. Covington is a role guy, low usage guy, abd syndrome who doesnt rely on physical tools to be effective, so he should age better. And at that salary, he can also be moved to the bench if okogie and wiggins step up a few years down the line.

Saric is a restricted free agent, he'll sign here if we want him.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Cam, It's Saric's defense that some of us are concerned about. Yes, we got Covington, but we had Butler and we were STILL a bottom tier defensive team last year. We have multiple holes defensively....

KAT and Wig just have to keep getting better, but I'm skeptical, as Butler saw these two guys up close and personal all last season and concluded that they can't get it done.

Fan of the deal, but still a little dim on our prospects for the season....

[thedoper]

Taj has been playing some pretty awful defense this year, same with Jimmy. We have Okogie to buoy the second unit. I don't think our d is going to get any worse slotting Saric and Covington in place of Taj and Jimmy. At least from what they've been contributing so far this year.

[Monster]

Cam, It's Saric's defense that some of us are concerned about. Yes, we got Covington, but we had Butler and we were STILL a bottom tier defensive team last year. We have multiple holes defensively....

KAT and Wig just have to keep getting better, but I'm skeptical, as Butler saw these two guys up close and personal all last season and concluded that they can't get it done.

Fan of the deal, but still a little dim on our prospects for the season....

Q to me the question is whether Saric is a complete liability on defense or just more like below average. From what most people say he works hard tries and at least plays smart. He isn't the quickest guy but we have also seen a guy like Tyus do a pretty good job defensively despite not having overwhelming tools. Saric is used to doing plenty of switching so that doesn't hurt either. This team has had problems defending for quite a while. There are few PF that are significant difference makers on that end. The ones that are...a lot of them play a bunch of minutes at C.

As for Towns and Wiggins...it shouldn't be just on those guys. When healthy this should be a team that goes at least 10 deep with legit good NBA rotation players. Tyus isn't gonna shoot 30% the rest of the season. The Wolves aren't gonna keep shooting so badly from 2 point land the rest of the year. There is legit talent on this team which yes likely won't be good defensively but if these parts come together and stays relatively healthy (which has been a legit problem and part of the reason we are 4-9) then this team should be able to come up with some wins. There is talent here to win or at least finish the season respectably even if some people don't want that for a draft pick. If Thibs can't get that out of this group he will be out of a job. I don't think he is just coaching to make the playoffs to save his job. For example If Saric looks good so will Thibs Etc.

[Wolvesfan21]

Honestly I didn't want Butler longterm on a Max deal when he'll be 34-35 years old. He's barely athletic enough now, I don't see him aging well. Not worth the money he will get. You'll never win a Championship if he is your best player. He's a solid player no doubt, but because he is an egotistical nut job, not a good teammate, he'll never win it all.

[thedoper]

If Saric knows how to box out on the weak side he'll already be our best defensive option next to KAT.

[Coolbreeze44]

Honestly I didn't want Butler longterm on a Max deal when he'll be 34-35 years old. He's barely athletic enough now, I don't see him aging well. Not worth the money he will get. You'll never win a Championship if he is your best player. He's a solid player no doubt, but because he is an egotistical nut job, not a good teammate, he'll never win it all.

I agree. I see murky waters ahead for Philly.