Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I don't like that Sixers package, Lip, and while I know you were aiming for conservative and realistic, I think you went too far and tipped the scales in Philadelphia's favor.

I'm also not all that high on Zhaire Smith, which is the main reason why I'm not attracted to that package. Perhaps if Dario Saric was the centerpiece I'd try to rally behind it, but we'd be really thin at the wings so I'd probably just try to find a way to get Covington anyways.

I'm not currently looking at the trade machine or the numbers, but is there a deal that works where Butler and Gibson are traded to the Sixers for Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and Jared Bayless?

I didn't run that scenario though the trade machine, but I'm certain it wouldn't meet the salary-match requirement. Butler straight up for those three would work.

And so it was. Good teamwork, Lip.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I don't like that Sixers package, Lip, and while I know you were aiming for conservative and realistic, I think you went too far and tipped the scales in Philadelphia's favor.

I'm also not all that high on Zhaire Smith, which is the main reason why I'm not attracted to that package. Perhaps if Dario Saric was the centerpiece I'd try to rally behind it, but we'd be really thin at the wings so I'd probably just try to find a way to get Covington anyways.

I'm not currently looking at the trade machine or the numbers, but is there a deal that works where Butler and Gibson are traded to the Sixers for Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and Jared Bayless?

I didn't run that scenario though the trade machine, but I'm certain it wouldn't meet the salary-match requirement. Butler straight up for those three would work.

And so it was. Good teamwork, Lip.

My compliments to the chefs...

[Lipoli390]

I don't like that Sixers package, Lip, and while I know you were aiming for conservative and realistic, I think you went too far and tipped the scales in Philadelphia's favor.

I'm also not all that high on Zhaire Smith, which is the main reason why I'm not attracted to that package. Perhaps if Dario Saric was the centerpiece I'd try to rally behind it, but we'd be really thin at the wings so I'd probably just try to find a way to get Covington anyways.

I'm not currently looking at the trade machine or the numbers, but is there a deal that works where Butler and Gibson are traded to the Sixers for Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and Jared Bayless?

I didn't run that scenario though the trade machine, but I'm certain it wouldn't meet the salary-match requirement. Butler straight up for those three would work.

And so it was. Good teamwork, Lip.

My compliments to the chefs...

I think Cam is right about Saric being the key to this deal. But my key ingredients were left out. I saw a list of excellent draft assets that had to be included in my soufflé. My recipe required at least two of the following (maybe just one with Saric included): (1) Sixers' 2019 first round pick, (2) Bulls' 2019 2nd round pick (likely a top 5 in that round), (3) Sacramento's 2019 2nd round pick, and (4) Miami's 2021 unprotected 1st round pick. I would have passed open Saric if it meant getting Miami's 2021 unprotected pick along with the Chicago and Sacramento 2nd round picks next June. Otherwise, I needed the Chicago 2019 second rounder at a minimum with Saric for my recipe to work.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

OK, here are a few of what I'd consider realistic deals the Wolves should pursue:

1. SIXERS DEAL
Sixers Get: Butler
Wolves Get: (a) Covington, (b) Muscala, (c) Bulls or Kings 2019 2nd rd pk, (c) Heat 2021 1st

Why Wolves would do this? Covington steps in right away as a very solid SF to replace Butler. He's still reasonably young at 27 years old without a lot of mileage on him so he'll still be in his prime a couple seasons from now when KAT, Wiggins and Tyus begin to enter their peak years. He also has a reasonable $10.5M per year contract and has 4 years left, so the Wolves can get full value for him as a player since he can't bolt any time soon. The Kings or Bulls 2nd round pick next years will likely be pretty high - in the 31-38 range and the Miami pick in two years will be unprotected at a time when the Heat could be pretty bad. Muscala would be salary filler and his $5 million would come off the books after this season, so it's also a good deal financially for the Wolves from a salary cap standpoint. I'd definitely try to work a deal to get Saric, but I don't consider it realistic so I'm not going to attempt to put one together in this post. I'll save it for my "moon shot" proposal post.

This is from late September of 2018, Lip. Please don't take offense to me pulling an old post as sometimes that's seen as a jab or calling a poster out. That's not my intention at all and I hope you know that before my prefacing it. But from what I can see, you seem to be the leading voice of those that are against the haul we eventually got back for Jimmy Butler and I'm really trying to understand the opposing view. I'm just confused because I've read posts in this very thread where posters talk highly of both Dario Saric and Robert Covington -- even saying they'd be satisfied with a return that brought just one of them -- and we got back both!

How is it that you've changed so much in just over six weeks -- 13 NBA games -- on this view of Philadelphia's assets? You considered Saric as one of five [presumably available] players you thought would be acceptable building blocks in return for Butler that would provide us with someone either better than Zach LaVine or with the upside he presented. The other four were: Otto Porter, Tobias Harris, Kevin Knox, and Josh Jackson.

As I've bolded in the above post, you considered it to be unrealistic that the Wolves would get back Saric [and Covington, I assume]. So, if that's the case, wouldn't you be valuing Saric above those other assets that you included -- 2019 Bulls/Kings second-round pick, 2021 Heat first-round pick?

What happened, guys?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

While I would prefer to bring back a legit starting-level wing along with a future prospect, I don't consider it an absolute need. The Wolves' #1 goal for any Butler deal should be the acquisition of young or youngish talent regardless of position. Saric is a tremendous young talent who is a perfect stretch 4 in today's NBA. I'd be willing to rely on some combination of Nunnally, Deng, Okogie and KBD at the other wing position for this upcoming season if he meant getting a talent like Saric. My main concern with Saric is the limited 2 years left on his contract. So for that reason, I'd probably lean towards my Covington scenario. He fits the bill as a youngish talent and, as you said, he can step in right away as a very solid starting wing who plays both sides of the ball at a high level.

Here's the minimum I would have to get back as part of any deal with any of the teams talked about so far as possible suitors:

Clippers - (1) T. Harris, (2) G-Alexander & (3) Clips 2021 1st rd pk lottery protected
Sixers -- (1) Covington or Saric & (2) future 1st rd pk top 12 protected or better
Wizards - (1) Beal or Porter & (2) a future 1st rd pk no worse than lottery protected
Heat -- (1) J. Richardson & (2) either Bam or Heat's 2019 1st rd top 5 protected
Cavs -- (1) Sexton & (2) future unprotected 1st rd pk

Another quote from you, Lip, because -- as I said -- I'm confused. I think you had it right all along in your initial evaluations with Saric and Covington being very good pieces to get back. I don't think you thought there was any likelihood of getting both of them, which is why you made the "or" part of your package. If I would have told you back in September or early October that we'd get both of them, I think the Lip back then would have been ecstatic.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I see two only two teams right now with realistic potential for a win-win Butler deal. One is Miami with Richardson as the centerpiece, the other the Sixers with Covington or Saric as the centerpiece. We've already seen reports from reliable reporters that Miami is very interested. While we haven't seen any similar reports about the Sixers, I'm convinced that they would be interested. As I've indicated before, the Sixers interest in KL earlier this summer tells us they'd like to add a player like Butler.

More of the same. Reading through the thread and I'm agreeing with you, Lip. I think we agreed on a lot throughout this whole process. You just valued Josh Richardson more than I did, but it looks like we both liked Dario Saric and Robert Covington quite a bit.

[KG4Ever]

LOL @ Camden. Where is my credit for mentioning Covington? I mentioned him first in this thread. I still prefer picks over Saric though.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Cam -- What are your ideas for better deals than the Miami deal I'm suggesting that you would consider realistic? I'm not thrilled with my own Miami trade scenario, so I'm thirsty for better suggestions.

[s]Wizards: Otto Porter, Markieff Morris, and Kelly Oubre for Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson[/s]

Sixers: Dario Saric and Robert Covington for Jimmy Butler

[s]Nuggets: Gary Harris and Trey Lyles for Jimmy Butler[/s]

[s]Mavericks: Harrison Barnes and a first-round pick (top-20 protected) for Jimmy Butler[/s]

[s]Los Angeles Clippers: Tobias Harris and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander for Jimmy Butler[/s]

[s]Toronto: OG Anunoby, Norman Powell, and Serge Ibaka for Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson[/s]

[s]Brooklyn: Jarrett Allen, Allen Crabbe, and a first-round pick (top-12 protected via Denver) for Jimmy Butler[/s]

Some of these trade ideas I've thrown out there are subjective in terms of whether or not they're better than the offers the Miami Heat are capable of offering. It just depends on your opinion of each individual player/asset involved. I do, however, believe every one of these offers are realistic in terms of value for Jimmy Butler. I'm valuing him as the All-NBA player that he is and the league is well aware of how difficult they are to acquire. That's the leverage Thibs and co. should be working with and I'm confident they know this.

I continue to believe that there are better deals than the hot garbage that has been reported to this point that will surface at some point as long as the Wolves remain patient. I don't believe the majority of the bullshit that is being spewed by the media when a star player becomes available -- even the reporting from Woj, Stein, Jon K, and others. Those sources are player agents and anonymous front office members with their own agendas to push. I understand they have to report it, but it's often misleading. Don't you all remember when all we heard during the "Kevin Love demands trade" off-season that the Boston Celtics were going to land him for the No. 6 pick, Jared Sullinger, and Kelly Olynyk? How is this any different? Stay patient and continue to demand a fair return.

That's a good list, Cam.

I think all of them are realistic except the Saric/Covington deal. I don't think the Sixers would give up Saric. If we could get both, this deal would probably be my first choice.

Otherwise, my first choice from your list would be the Washington deal for Porter, Morris and Oubre.

My next choice from your list would be the T. Harris/G-Alexander deal with the Clippers.

[Lip's post continues, but I'm not including it in order to manage the size of this comment.]

I remain firm that the Wolves got pretty good value in this Butler trade and that Lip knows it deep down -- as he's said in past posts -- but he's gone full Wolves fan and is self-hating. Please say a prayer for my friend Lip. He's a good guy and secretly wants a Dario Saric jersey now that he's a building block for Minnesota. We all are Lip at one point or another in our Minnesota fandom.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

There could be some recency effect at play here. Saric hasn't exactly gotten off to the greatest start, so I can easily see someone cooling off on him.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

There could be some recency effect at play here. Saric hasn't exactly gotten off to the greatest start, so I can easily see someone cooling off on him.

And that's likely what it is, but is 13 games really enough to change how you evaluate a player? I wouldn't think so, but that's just how my mind operates.

Note: Saric also started the season last year pretty slow too. Struggled through the first 20 games or so before settling in and becoming Philly's silent and slept-on weapon. His numbers after that start were just ridiculously good.

From the beginning of December, and after 21 games in the 2017-18 season, Saric averaged 15.9 PPG (46.7 FG%, 40.8 3P%, 87.2 FT%), 6.8 RPG, 2.9 APG, and 2.2 3PM/G in 30.1 MPG over the final 57 games.