kekgeek1 wrote:I think the trade was solid. We added an all nba defender who can hit 3s who is in the prime of his career and is under team control for a good price.
Saric is a nice young piece who is only 24 and can grow and develop. Can slot into our starting PF spot for the next 2 years and the wolves can make a decision on him after that, he is a RFA so if we want him he is ours.
I know people are worried about Saric and Kat combo defensively but I have thought Kat has made significant strides in that area this year.
We added no bad contacts that we can't trade like waiters.
We can now if we want get to 22 million in expirings with taj and Bayless. What happens if the Knicks think they can get Durant. Would you be willing to take Hardaway off their hands to acquire a 1st round pick if that means they can acquire Durant. We have the expirings to do something like that now.
We now have 3 above average 3pt starters in Covington, saric and towns. With Wiggins also shooting a career high (still way to early in the season). We are starting to have the pieces to create a modern offense.
Now in the end it's still comes down to the development of Kat and Wiggins and how we draft. Hopefully one day we get better at that.
But at the end of the day we added 2 legit rotation players, an asset in an expiring contract and we have a legit pecking order the team. Hopefully we can build off this
They're not attaching a first round pick to get rid of their leading scorer. They have room to sign a max player already. They're fully on board with wanting that pick to be as high as possible to pair up with Knox/Porzingis. The Knicks aren't gonna act desperate.
Besides, the Wolves shouldn't want Hardaway here as long as Wiggins is here. They might as well be the same player.
If they want to add two max players they need to get rid of Hardaway contract. There are rumors of Durant to the Knicks if another star would join him.
Howard beck and bill simmons talked about this on their pod on friday, saying the Knicks think they would have a chance at Durant if they trade Hardaway.
Not saying it's a slam dunk but Hardaway is still a bad contract and the wolves are one of the teams in the NBA that have the contracts to get them off of that contract
They won't attach a pick to get rid of Hardaway though. If they knew they'd get Durant AND someone else, they'd worry about that in the summer, but they're not gonna trade a shot at drafting in the top 5 for a player who may or may not come. Otherwise they woulda been in on Butler too. At best they'd give you a heavily protected first (I'm talking 1-20 protected) along with Courtney Lee for an expiring.
Basically the Knick core is their 2019 pick, Porzingis, Knox and Ntilikina.
monsterpile wrote:I don't really care that much that we missed out on Josh Richardson. The deal we ended up with is something I would have been fairly happy with weeks ago so...whatever. Thibs job now is more about his coaching. If he doesn't get the job done there he will he fired and will deserve it. Personally I'm intrigued to see how it plays out on the court.
For some reason on this board Josh Richardson is a supreme talent and RoCo is a scrub in comparison.
The reality is that they are very similar - one just actually has accolades to support the case..
Richardson is a much better ballhandler than Covington and can be more of a shot-creator than Covington. He's also 3 years younger than Covington.
crazy-canuck wrote:I like sarics passing, his handle, and his ability to move off the ball. Defenders wont be able to pack the paint against us, they will have to guard him (unlike taj).
However, Im just not sure we have the pg nor the offensive schemes to really maximize their potential. But that could be said for anyone we bring in.
Our pgs fit what thibs wants to run, everyone else seems to be miscast.
All true. Top priority should be a change in our head coach and PBO. Things can work well with Covington, Saric and Towns. But the team needs the right head coach who knows how to get the most out of that trio. And Teague is not the answer at PG
Camden wrote:Top 10 in Catch-and-Shoot 3PM in 2017-18:
1. Robert Covington (189)
2. Klay Thompson (187)
T-3. Allen Crabbe (177)
T-3. Wayne Ellington (177)
T-3. Paul George (177)
6. Joe Ingles (161) 7. Anthony Tolliver (157) 8. Dario Saric (155)
9. Eric Gordon (154)
10. Trevor Ariza (151)
Minnesota has acquired three of the ten players on this list with two obviously coming from the Jimmy Butler trade. I think the Wolves just leaped into the top half of the league in terms of 3P-shooting too. What a bizarre, and necessary, development from a year or two ago.
Good list Cam. I'm actually looking forward to Teague getting some more space to operate in, assuming Saric starts. Saric + Covington >>>> Gibson + Butler in terms of floor spacing.
monsterpile wrote:I don't really care that much that we missed out on Josh Richardson. The deal we ended up with is something I would have been fairly happy with weeks ago so...whatever. Thibs job now is more about his coaching. If he doesn't get the job done there he will he fired and will deserve it. Personally I'm intrigued to see how it plays out on the court.
For some reason on this board Josh Richardson is a supreme talent and RoCo is a scrub in comparison.
The reality is that they are very similar - one just actually has accolades to support the case..
Richardson is a much better ballhandler than Covington and can be more of a shot-creator than Covington. He's also 3 years younger than Covington.
Exactly. My attachment to Richardson was that it feels like he still has runway to develop into a top tier shot maker and creator for others, whereas Covington is what he is at this point.
monsterpile wrote:I don't really care that much that we missed out on Josh Richardson. The deal we ended up with is something I would have been fairly happy with weeks ago so...whatever. Thibs job now is more about his coaching. If he doesn't get the job done there he will he fired and will deserve it. Personally I'm intrigued to see how it plays out on the court.
For some reason on this board Josh Richardson is a supreme talent and RoCo is a scrub in comparison.
The reality is that they are very similar - one just actually has accolades to support the case..
Richardson is a much better ballhandler than Covington and can be more of a shot-creator than Covington. He's also 3 years younger than Covington.
Exactly. My attachment to Richardson was that it feels like he still has runway to develop into a top tier shot maker and creator for others, whereas Covington is what he is at this point.
There is no doubt that Richardson is a higher level upside guy than Covington but the trade as largely been reported has us taking back Waiters which makes Richardson basically cost double what Covington does plus Covington while older is locked into an additional year. Meanwhile I'd rather have Saric over the 1st round pick from Miami which would likely be innthe 20's. The reality is both Richardson and Covington for various reasons are useful pieces to get back in a Butler trade and I'm glad we got one of them.
monsterpile wrote:I don't really care that much that we missed out on Josh Richardson. The deal we ended up with is something I would have been fairly happy with weeks ago so...whatever. Thibs job now is more about his coaching. If he doesn't get the job done there he will he fired and will deserve it. Personally I'm intrigued to see how it plays out on the court.
For some reason on this board Josh Richardson is a supreme talent and RoCo is a scrub in comparison.
The reality is that they are very similar - one just actually has accolades to support the case..
Richardson is a much better ballhandler than Covington and can be more of a shot-creator than Covington. He's also 3 years younger than Covington.
Exactly. My attachment to Richardson was that it feels like he still has runway to develop into a top tier shot maker and creator for others, whereas Covington is what he is at this point.
There is no doubt that Richardson is a higher level upside guy than Covington but the trade as largely been reported has us taking back Waiters which makes Richardson basically cost double what Covington does plus Covington while older is locked into an additional year. Meanwhile I'd rather have Saric over the 1st round pick from Miami which would likely be innthe 20's. The reality is both Richardson and Covington for various reasons are useful pieces to get back in a Butler trade and I'm glad we got one of them.
I believe that Covington and Richardson both have 3 years left on their respective contracts after this season (4 years if you count this season). The Waiters contract was definitely the downside to the reported Miami offer. But I'd still take that deal over this one because I see Richardson as a better fit than Covington and a more forward-looking asset. And actually, Richardson is already better than Covington offensively. Richardson has career 43% FG and 38% 3-point percentages, compared to Covington's 40% and 36%. Note that Covington has shot over 40% from the field in only one of his prior seasons, excluding his first season in which he played only 7 games. Saric's upside remains elusive at this point and we only have him locked up for the rest of this season and next.
Nevertheless, I agree with you that both Richardson and Covington are useful pieces for various reasons and I, too, am glad we got one of them. I do like Covington's defense, but we'll see how he fairs defensively in what seems to be a poor defensive system run by Thibodeau. In any event, my criticism of the deal is that it is not sufficiently forward looking. It strikes me as a very pedestrian, near-term deal.
monsterpile wrote:I don't really care that much that we missed out on Josh Richardson. The deal we ended up with is something I would have been fairly happy with weeks ago so...whatever. Thibs job now is more about his coaching. If he doesn't get the job done there he will he fired and will deserve it. Personally I'm intrigued to see how it plays out on the court.
For some reason on this board Josh Richardson is a supreme talent and RoCo is a scrub in comparison.
The reality is that they are very similar - one just actually has accolades to support the case..
Richardson is a much better ballhandler than Covington and can be more of a shot-creator than Covington. He's also 3 years younger than Covington.
Exactly. My attachment to Richardson was that it feels like he still has runway to develop into a top tier shot maker and creator for others, whereas Covington is what he is at this point.
There is no doubt that Richardson is a higher level upside guy than Covington but the trade as largely been reported has us taking back Waiters which makes Richardson basically cost double what Covington does plus Covington while older is locked into an additional year. Meanwhile I'd rather have Saric over the 1st round pick from Miami which would likely be innthe 20's. The reality is both Richardson and Covington for various reasons are useful pieces to get back in a Butler trade and I'm glad we got one of them.
I believe that Covington and Richardson both have 3 years left on their respective contracts after this season (4 years if you count this season). The Waiters contract was definitely the downside to the reported Miami offer. But I'd still take that deal over this one because I see Richardson as a better fit than Covington and a more forward-looking asset. And actually, Richardson is already better than Covington offensively. Richardson has career 43% FG and 38% 3-point percentages, compared to Covington's 40% and 36%. Note that Covington has shot over 40% from the field in only one of his prior seasons, excluding his first season in which he played only 7 games. Saric's upside remains elusive at this point and we only have him locked up for the rest of this season and next.
Nevertheless, I agree with you that both Richardson and Covington are useful pieces for various reasons and I, too, am glad we got one of them. I do like Covington's defense, but we'll see how he fairs defensively in what seems to be a poor defensive system run by Thibodeau. In any event, my criticism of the deal is that it is not sufficiently forward looking. It strikes me as a very pedestrian, near-term deal.
Lip Richardson's 4th year is a player option. If he is good like many expect it's a no-brainer that he opts out of that. Like I said in my post that extra value year of the contract adds a little more value to Covington which I said I consider that an offset him being older than Richardson.
One of the values of Covington compared to either Richardson (with Waiters) or even Lavine is it gives around 10 million more room to build the team with. It goes without saying that you would pay extra for the shot creation but there is still merit there in having a high level defender that can spread the floor on the wing on that type of contract. Again we can agree he is a good piece to have and can be a guybthat helps this team move forward. As long as he stays healthy he will also be a nice trade asset as well...which could be used as a piece to get a very good player like the Sixers just did.
Yeah, I'm not against the Philly trade, as I get the fact we'd have to take on some nasty baggage in a Miami deal. I am just trying to explain why, all else being equal, Richardson might have been the best talent to get back versus the other options and why some might feel it would have been worth the baggage.
I probably would have been OK with either deal in the end. We just had to move forward.
