Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

[AbeVigodaLive]

ASAP MD/JE = E/MC(2)

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

ASAP MD/JE = E/MC(2)

Sorry. Initials can confuse some people. JB is Jimmy Butler. JP is Justin Patton. JR is Josh Richardson. And KO is Kelly Olynyk. If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

ASAP MD/JE = E/MC(2)

Nice. B

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

ASAP MD/JE = E/MC(2)

Nice. B

...and you as well.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I'm not a big fan of Jason's proposed trade.

But if the Wolves hold out for one more 2nd rounder in 2076... I'm all in.

Can only go seven years ahead. A recent change from five. But please, lets complain about 4 firsts not being enough, and then turn around and say 2nd rounders are too much. Make perfect sense.

Ok. Ok.

If you throw in three dozen Timbe

Abe, Q, you need to think a little more creatively here. Those assets in the hand of a smart front office with a plan means a hek of a lot more than just picks in the 20's over 7 years. Cam and I have posted about all the avenues having those assets opens up. Remember until the Brooklyn deal, Boston was getting decent but not high lottery picks that they were having trouble turning into stars. Similar to how the Wolves were back in the very early days where we were always drafting just one or two spots from where we needed to be. But you can do a helluva lot with multiple first round picks over multiple years. Ainge has always managed to acquire more high draft assets even when trading one away. There is no blueprint for how exactly this should be done, but for a franchise who looks to have blown another rebuild, this is essentially a get out of jail free card and another golden opportunity to finally build a contender. And it doesn't have to take 7 years. Not when you already have some good pieces in place.

I appreciate the flexibility and "currency" this gives us, but to Abe's point, that doesn't actually mean anything until it translates to a real player or two that can impact the game at a high level. And Houston has every incentive now to stay good and quickly rebuild with vets once this current group ages out.

I would prefer a deal that gives us some mix of young proven players (like JRich), draft assets, and salary filler on shorter deals. The Houston deal gives us no existing proven talent and there is no guarantee it ever will.

And how do they re-tool with no tradeable picks and no cap space? CP3, Jimmy and maybe even Harden are gonna age out before their contracts are up. They're gonna be paying luxury tax for their big 4 a year and possibly two after they are no longer a big 4. They just flat out wouldn't have the resources to fix that mess. And they won't care to desperately fix it either if it gets them a title in the next 2 years.

Maybe Houston is leveraging too much of its future with such a trade. But something tells me that they're not sacrificing everything just yet.

After all, something is working in Houston. They've had a winning record in 31 of the past 34 seasons.

When Morey arrived, it was a Ming + McGrady team. Then it was Aaron Brooks/Kevin Martin/Luis Scola. Then Harden + Parsons. Then Harden + Howard. Then Harden + Paul.

Meanwhile, they did this almost entirely without 1st round draft picks. Only Brooks and Capela really made much impact.

All the while, the Wolves built around multiple #1 draft picks. And we're being told that's the only route that's gonna work... only with much lower picks.

Sorry. I aint buying it. And while Houston is relevant here because they're the trading partner, we could also look at Indiana, Utah, SA, MIlwaukee, et al as other organizations that found ways to be respectable to good without relying heavily on a bevy of 1st rd picks.

Meanwhile, Orlando, MN, Sacramento, et al have been among the biggest champions of the promise of hope campaigns over the years... this side of Philadelphia.

Exactly. Teams don't HAVE to get lottery picks to re-tool and they have proven it time and again, as have other teams. Houston is a big town with a big market and with zero state income taxes. Morey is one of the savviest GMs in the business.

But let's just say Houston does get crappy and we end up getting a lottery pick with, say, their 2023 pick. Most likely that lottery pick will be an 18 or 19 year old that will take a few years to develop, which takes us to around 2026. Exacly where is KAT at that point!? Is he still even with us because that is way beyond his current contract window.

The Houston deal is bigger than KAT's playing window for us. Do you think Boston cares that Tatum is 7 years younger than Kyrie and a decade younger than their other good players? We can use the cap space and late first round picks to build around KAT. Those last 2 picks aren't designed to support KAT. They're designed to give this team a chance to add a Tatum and be set for life after KAT. Trying to plan out this team around KAT for the next decade is dumb. He hasn't even shown yet that he's worthy of that kind of organizational commitment. This is a chance to put the organization in a good place for a decade with or without KAT. Stop thinking so short term around KAT and just being a playoff team. KAT hasn't earned that level of organizational desperation to keep him and make him the centerpiece for a decade. He could be that guy, but this kind of deal goes beyond him to put the organization in a good place to succeed moving forward.

If that's the case, so be it, but then this team is all but useless for the next 5+ years and they're back at nothing. Again. With no indication that we're ever gonna have the personnel necessary to see it through correctly.

The payoff for all the suffering isn't even worth it anymore.

I mean that possibility he always been there. We've literally seen this situation play out before with Kevin Love. That's why you make moves in the best interest of the organization and not just around one guy who hasn't proven yet that he can be the centerpiece of a good team. If you put pieces around KAT to be a contender and he isn't that guys you're back at the bottom anyway so why full commit to that when you can still build around him with some parts of the trade, but also potentially provide a huge boost to the franchise 7 years down the line?

We can't get 80-90% of Josh Richardson with cap space and a late first round pick to trade without taking back another bad salary? And then have 3 more first round picks on top of that. You can't have it both ways of a Houston trade means rebuilding forever while a Josh Richardson trade means we're all of a sudden a perennial playoff team. JR isn't a franchise changer of that magnitude. He's a solid piece on a good contract. We can get that level of player in free agency with an overpay or trade for it with a late first round pick. Hell we may already have that guy on the team in Okogie. There seems to be a narrative that KAT is that guy with JR, but not with the Houston scenario and the fact is he's gonna be the same guy in both scenarios so which gives you a better chance to build around him and that's the Houston trade.

I'm extremely skeptical that the Wolves can get a Josh Richardson type of player, with as much proven ability, with a "favorable" longer contract for a late 1st round pick.

His favorable contract literally doesn't matter if it doesn't result in usable cap space because it's shipped to us with an unfavorable contract. They negate each other out so you just have to compare JR to another player we could get with cap space or that pick.

The options right now are around 21 million in cap space, 4 first round picks and filler or JR, a first round pick and Whiteside/Olynyk/Waiters.

Is JR and filler significantly better than what 21 million and a first round pick can provide? Because you are giving up 2 first round picks to do that. Those are your team building options. Which do you think is better for the Timberwolves?

[WildWolf2813]

Butler questionable tonight.

Og also sitting for no apparent reason.

Maybe masai is making a last minute move.

Butler/Leonard is a nightmarish wing pairing for opposing teams and they can switch everything. I'm surprised there hasn't been more buzz around Toronto.

Short of trading OG (who they'd probably want to keep around in case Kawhi leaves), they don't have anything of value to give.

I disagree a bit.

VanVleet
Siakam
OG Anunoby
Delon Wright

Each offers varying degrees of value. Each is relatively young and has shown definitive improvement while earning minutes on a quality playoff team.

We can quibble about just how good any of them are... or will be.

I'm with you Abe I think there is some worthwhile stuff there. I was gonna say even C.J. Miles could be a help now guy and then I looked up his stats...man I'm glad we didn't give up a 1st round pick to get that guy.

except they're not sending you that as a package for Butler. They're not gonna gut their entire bench for him.

[WildWolf2813]

If thibs takes this deal, we basically traded 3 lottery picks for 4 picks in the late 20's. And people are loving it?

And you knew that Terrell Owens was going to rip off his Jimmy Butler mask and reveal who he really is?
And lets discuss the "3 lottery picks". Dunn still isn't good and Lavine makes $20m/year. So it becomes one lottery picks for a playoff appearance/win, a pick in the teens, and four picks in the 20's, and maybe more.

Wolves need to get back at least 1 useable player and not just picks.

4 late picks doesnt do anything for us unless we are doing a hard reboot. We need at least 1 young guy that can play right now with Wiggins, KAT, and Okogie. Unfortunately, Chriss is not that guy.

Hopefully this starts a bidding war and we get at least 1 useable player in return.

Houston is not gonna be a playoff team for the next 8 years. They are gonna get old. They are gonna be capped out and if they don't win a title in the next 3-4 years they will need to blow it up because nobody will be left to re-tool a half decent team around. Do you really think a guy who operates in the extremes the way Morey does is going to be fine in the middle when CP3, Harden and Jimmy are in their mid 30's and not contending any more? Again, everyone thought Brooklyn was gonna be a good team with the KG/Pierce trade and they aged out way faster than anyone anticipated and Philly reaped the benefits of a team that aged overnight.

They aged out fast because Deron Williams got fat and fell off the face of the Earth. it was also a shortsighted trade because Brooklyn wanted fans to come to their new arena and take over NYC.

For what it's worth, Brooklyn reached the East semis the first year of that trade. That would be the 2nd best season in franchise history if that were us.

I'm just sick of watching this team try to build with the hope of "maybe this team will fall off soon."

I'm sick of it as well, but this is Butler's fault. No way MIN trades the #7 pick if Butler tells MIN "Oh, by the way, I'm actually Terrell Owens."

1. It's not just Butler's fault. This is an organizational mess that starts at the top.

2. I've always maintained that having an asshole on the team is not a bad thing if he's a good player. It beats having 15 nice guys who you wind up hating anyway because they can't win.

3. The fact that we're relying on Thibs and Glen to a lesser extent to make a trade that's gonna set us up for a future they won't be a part of is a huge problem that will only yield negative results.

How is this not Butler's fault?!?!?!? He is demanding a trade. Full stop. No way MIN acquires him for ONE SEASON!!! Jackie McMullen said it best: Jimmy Butler is in the process of bitching (her word) his way off of his 2nd team in 18 months. I'm sorry, but that means something.

Jimmy Butler demanding a trade is on Jimmy.

How things have been handled is on management.

The state of the franchise is on ownership.

[KiwiMatt]

Sounds like Houston offered Brandon Knight, Marquese Chriss and 4 x future 1st round picks.

Both Knight and Chriss are currently out injured with no timetable on their return. Yuck.

But there is the chance that it all implodes in Houston with the volatile personalities of Harden, Paul, Butler and Anthony all being on the same team. And we could walk away from this deal with lottery 1st round picks like the Boston Celtics did after the KG / Pierce trade to the Nets. Unlikely yes, but a possibility.

[Wolvesfan21]

Sounds like Houston offered Brandon Knight, Marquese Chriss and 4 x future 1st round picks.

Both Knight and Chriss are currently out injured with no timetable on their return. Yuck.

But there is the chance that it all implodes in Houston with the volatile personalities of Harden, Paul, Butler and Anthony all being on the same team. And we could walk away from this deal with lottery 1st round picks like the Boston Celtics did after the KG / Pierce trade to the Nets. Unlikely yes, but a possibility.

It depends all on the protections. If they were all or mostly unprotected, aside from say top 2-3 picks I would pull the trigger. Likely they still retain at least Harden/Capella and Paul down the road so I can't see them being in the lottery for a few years.

You can always use those picks to either move up in the draft or trade for other talent too.

I just wonder if we could swap out Chriss or Knight and get a serviceable depth guy. They probably wouldn't do Eric Gordan or Tucker, beyond those guys IDK who I would want.

[Monster]

ASAP MD/JE = E/MC(2)

Nice. B

...and you as well.

I'm still confused as to why Jason asked for Toronoto's PS/3. Dude everyone is playing Fortnite now...we'll except for Jimmy who just plays dominos.













I'm just joking and also I haven't played any type of game on any kind of electrical device for months now (probably not since 2017) even on my phone. I am going to a game night tomorrow. Also is everyone else pumped that the Wolves have an esports franchise now??!?!?