Looking at post game stat sheets

[Porckchop]

Is really depressing. It's basically the same production from the same players. Nothing wows me or gets me excited for this coming season. Am I being to pessimistic here?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Is really depressing. It's basically the same production from the same players. Nothing wows me or gets me excited for this coming season. Am I being to pessimistic here?

Depends on what you were expecting for this group. Those of us that know this team will suck probably won't be as disappointed as the rest.

All I want to see is:

- Improved team defense. This is probably the most important aspect of this season.

- Towns taking a positive step as an actual leader -- not the rah-rah, politically correct, fake personality to the media we've seen in the past.

- Culver's development and signs of something legitimate with him.

- Find at least one "diamond in the rough" whether that's via Reid, Nowell, Layman, Bell, McLaughlin, Martin, or someone we have yet to see in a Wolves uniform. We have to unearth at least one of these types.

- Can Saunders even remotely justify his head coaching position despite not being qualified for the job prior to his hire.

Edit: McLaughlin instead of McCullough.

[Porckchop]

I'm on record saying that this team is gonna lose a lot. If they can make it thru the year and not have Towns demand out it'll be a success. Pg talent in the draft is intriguing.

[Eitan]

e

Is really depressing. It's basically the same production from the same players. Nothing wows me or gets me excited for this coming season. Am I being to pessimistic here?

Depends on what you were expecting for this group. Those of us that know this team will suck probably won't be as disappointed as the rest.

All I want to see is:

- Improved team defense. This is probably the most important aspect of this season.

- Towns taking a positive step as an actual leader -- not the rah-rah, politically correct, fake personality to the media we've seen in the past.

- Culver's development and signs of something legitimate with him.

- Find at least one "diamond in the rough" whether that's via Reid, Nowell, Layman, Bell, McCullough, Martin, or someone we have yet to see in a Wolves uniform. We have to unearth at least one of these types.

- Can Saunders even remotely justify his head coaching position despite not being qualified for the job prior to his hire.

You nailed it Cam.

In addition, I think we will win a lot more games this season than people think.
We are young (not too much), hungry with a star who can lift everybody - Just have to play defense.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Is really depressing. It's basically the same production from the same players. Nothing wows me or gets me excited for this coming season. Am I being to pessimistic here?

Depends on what you were expecting for this group. Those of us that know this team will suck probably won't be as disappointed as the rest.

All I want to see is:

- Improved team defense. This is probably the most important aspect of this season.

- Towns taking a positive step as an actual leader -- not the rah-rah, politically correct, fake personality to the media we've seen in the past.

- Culver's development and signs of something legitimate with him.

- Find at least one "diamond in the rough" whether that's via Reid, Nowell, Layman, Bell, McLaughlin, Martin, or someone we have yet to see in a Wolves uniform. We have to unearth at least one of these types.

- Can Saunders even remotely justify his head coaching position despite not being qualified for the job prior to his hire.

Edit: McLaughlin instead of McCullough.

This is seemingly our "keys to the season" every damn year, yet none of it hardly ever comes to fruition. All the cheap contract guys stay mediocre; our rookies don't develop; our team defense stays in the bottom 5. I have a hard time seeing what is different this time around.

Take Culver for instance. He is a great kid, but I think his outside shot is seriously broken. Teams will learn to play off him and that will impact his ability to use his crafiness to get to the hoop. He's got some nice skills, but I think his inability to shoot the ball will become a big liability for him.

[KG4Ever]

Is really depressing. It's basically the same production from the same players. Nothing wows me or gets me excited for this coming season. Am I being to pessimistic here?

- Can Saunders even remotely justify his head coaching position despite not being qualified for the job prior to his hire.

Cough, cough! You keep posting that Ryan is unqualified, but you were the biggest proponent of hiring Thibs who was less qualified as a GM than Ryan was as a coach and he was an utter disaster. Thibs gutted the roster and the Wolves are paying the price now. Thibs stocked the roster full of old guys, drafted Dunn instead of Buddy Hield or Murray, traded away Lavine and pick 8 (consensus was Lauri Markkanen) and used pick he got back for Patton over Collins, Jarrett Allen and Anunoby, traded Ricky away so he could overpay Jeff Teague. Signed Dieng and Wiggins to massive overpays and wanted to overpay Bazz (sure Glenn has a lot of blame w Wiggins, but it was done on Thibs watch) He alienated KG, and most of the organization etc. The lack of talent on the roster is primarily due to your man, Thibs.

[Lipoli390]

Is really depressing. It's basically the same production from the same players. Nothing wows me or gets me excited for this coming season. Am I being to pessimistic here?

Depends on what you were expecting for this group. Those of us that know this team will suck probably won't be as disappointed as the rest.

All I want to see is:

- Improved team defense. This is probably the most important aspect of this season.

- Towns taking a positive step as an actual leader -- not the rah-rah, politically correct, fake personality to the media we've seen in the past.

- Culver's development and signs of something legitimate with him.

- Find at least one "diamond in the rough" whether that's via Reid, Nowell, Layman, Bell, McLaughlin, Martin, or someone we have yet to see in a Wolves uniform. We have to unearth at least one of these types.

- Can Saunders even remotely justify his head coaching position despite not being qualified for the job prior to his hire.

Edit: McLaughlin instead of McCullough.

This is seemingly our "keys to the season" every damn year, yet none of it hardly ever comes to fruition. All the cheap contract guys stay mediocre; our rookies don't develop; our team defense stays in the bottom 5. I have a hard time seeing what is different this time around.

Take Culver for instance. He is a great kid, but I think his outside shot is seriously broken. Teams will learn to play off him and that will impact his ability to use his crafiness to get to the hoop. He's got some nice skills, but I think his inability to shoot the ball will become a big liability for him.

Q - I'm not sure what Cam listed have been keys to every season. We've had some seasons with vets like Butler, Kevin Love and of course KG where we weren't focused as much on the development of young players. Furthermore, this is the first time I can recall the Wolves assembling a coaching staff known for developing young talent. And this is the first time since the beginning of the Garnett era we'e had a front office with a clear unequivocal focus on building for the future with young talent.

Having said all that, I'm still not sold on Culver and Okogie's lack of development on the offensive end so far is troubling. As you mentioned, Culver's perimeter shot is seriously broken, which is apparent even when it goes in. He's also very thin, which you really notice when you see him live. But I do like some of what I saw from him in the preseason. He's craftier with the ball than I thought coming out of college and he's stronger than he looks. His basketball IQ also appears very high. Okogie still looks like he'll be a superb defender and there's no doubting his incredible physical gifts. The good news is that he's still barely 21 years old with only 2 college seasons and 1 NBA season under his belt.

I think some of the other young players have some promise, namely Nowell, KBD, Reid, Layman and Martin. I don't have any faith in Vonleh or Bell developing into anything special, although I think Vonleh can help defensively and on the boards this season. But long term, I think the fate of this rebuild around KAT will turn almost entirely on what happens with Culver, Okogie, Nowell, Reid, Layman and Martin as well as next June's draft. Culver and Okogie have allstar potential while the other four I've listed could become very good rotation players or better. I know it's just potential. But I don't think we've ever had this many young players with the cumulative upside all these guys have. I'd feel better if we could swap Culver for Alexander-Walker or Darius Garland. Nevertheless, I still see a potential Brandon Roy in Culver.

[Coolbreeze44]

You have to resist the temptation to judge this team early. I know as fans it's hard, but it's really unfair to bury this team early with all the change taking place. Yes, they are going to suck, maybe really suck, the first third of the season. I'm looking forward to what they are doing after the new year. I'd be really surprised if they don't show dramatic improvement, and shocked if they quit.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Is really depressing. It's basically the same production from the same players. Nothing wows me or gets me excited for this coming season. Am I being to pessimistic here?

Depends on what you were expecting for this group. Those of us that know this team will suck probably won't be as disappointed as the rest.

All I want to see is:

- Improved team defense. This is probably the most important aspect of this season.

- Towns taking a positive step as an actual leader -- not the rah-rah, politically correct, fake personality to the media we've seen in the past.

- Culver's development and signs of something legitimate with him.

- Find at least one "diamond in the rough" whether that's via Reid, Nowell, Layman, Bell, McLaughlin, Martin, or someone we have yet to see in a Wolves uniform. We have to unearth at least one of these types.

- Can Saunders even remotely justify his head coaching position despite not being qualified for the job prior to his hire.

Edit: McLaughlin instead of McCullough.

This is seemingly our "keys to the season" every damn year, yet none of it hardly ever comes to fruition. All the cheap contract guys stay mediocre; our rookies don't develop; our team defense stays in the bottom 5. I have a hard time seeing what is different this time around.

Take Culver for instance. He is a great kid, but I think his outside shot is seriously broken. Teams will learn to play off him and that will impact his ability to use his crafiness to get to the hoop. He's got some nice skills, but I think his inability to shoot the ball will become a big liability for him.

Q - I'm not sure what Cam listed have been keys to every season. We've had some seasons with vets like Butler, Kevin Love and of course KG where we weren't focused as much on the development of young players. Furthermore, this is the first time I can recall the Wolves assembling a coaching staff known for developing young talent. And this is the first time since the beginning of the Garnett era we'e had a front office with a clear unequivocal focus on building for the future with young talent.

Having said all that, I'm still not sold on Culver and Okogie's lack of development on the offensive end so far is troubling. As you mentioned, Culver's perimeter shot is seriously broken, which is apparent even when it goes in. He's also very thin, which you really notice when you see him live. But I do like some of what I saw from him in the preseason. He's craftier with the ball than I thought coming out of college and he's stronger than he looks. His basketball IQ also appears very high. Okogie still looks like he'll be a superb defender and there's no doubting his incredible physical gifts. The good news is that he's still barely 21 years old with only 2 college seasons and 1 NBA season under his belt.

I think some of the other young players have some promise, namely Nowell, KBD, Reid, Layman and Martin. I don't have any faith in Vonleh or Bell developing into anything special, although I think Vonleh can help defensively and on the boards this season. But long term, I think the fate of this rebuild around KAT will turn almost entirely on what happens with Culver, Okogie, Nowell, Reid, Layman and Martin as well as next June's draft. Culver and Okogie have allstar potential while the other four I've listed could become very good rotation players or better. I know it's just potential. But I don't think we've ever had this many young players with the cumulative upside all these guys have. I'd feel better if we could swap Culver for Alexander-Walker or Darius Garland. Nevertheless, I still see a potential Brandon Roy in Culver.

The theoretical upside of this roster is not even close to what we had when KAT, LaVine, and Wiggins were 1st/2nd year guys. Some thought those guys were going to become a "big three" that could eventually contend for titles. No one says that about this crop of young guys.

I agree there are some intriguing skills, but that's the case every season. We always give our rookies the benefit of the doubt and a positive sheen at the beginning of each season, only to gradually sour on them within a year or two as gaping holes in their game gets exposed (usually shooting or defense) and rarely improves from year to year. Okogie is the latest example.

[Monster]

You have to resist the temptation to judge this team early. I know as fans it's hard, but it's really unfair to bury this team early with all the change taking place. Yes, they are going to suck, maybe really suck, the first third of the season. I'm looking forward to what they are doing after the new year. I'd be really surprised if they don't show dramatic improvement, and shocked if they quit.

Towns is such a good offensive player that does help as a rebounder That I don't think this team is going to be a terrible team if he is reasonably healthy. This team is going to score points and that will win you some games. Yes there will be some games where they struggle to score too but regardless of the system Towns is a guy that helps there quite a bit. Rope are really down on Teague but in reality his resume is a league average NBA PG that's played on playoff teams all but the year he wasn't able to stay healthy. Napier I believe is a solid Overall backup. Covington staying healthy is a big deal. Some of the lower tier WC teams don't have a player of his impact as a 2nd guy. After that I feel more optimistic about a few players but even if you want to call them question marks...you can say that About a number of players about a few teams especially in the lower tiers.