Imploding in Indiana - Wolves at Pacers GDT

[bleedspeed]

As much as I want to tank I don't mind winning with players that we moving forward with next year like Dunn that need minutes.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Weird game...

- Minnesota won the 3-point battle, going 9-20, led by KAT and Gorgui of all people.

- Rubio with the three big free throws to seal it and doubled George on the final possession to make him give it up for the last shot. I found it notable how pressed up Teague was on Rubio late in the game. Here I thought spacing was always the culprit in our late game collapses because we are supposedly always going 4 on 5 with Rubio on the floor! Guess not.....

- Too much is being asked of Wiggins. He labored around the court trying to guard Paul George and offensively he looked like a mess, going 6-17 for 17 points, with a number of really ugly shots. He was mediocre on both ends last night. He simply isn't ready to be our wing stopper and wing scorer. All of his advanced stat numbers are down year over year. It's not a good development.

- Dunn with a combined 7 blocks and steals in only 26 minutes. He could become the ultimate "do shit" combo guard. I've never seen a guard make so many weak side shot blocks as he does.

- Gorgui spends way too much time on the floor....I mean literally sprawled out on the floor.

Only watched the final 12 seconds. Rubio hit those free throws very confidently. Doubled up with great D.

About your comment in bold. Is it satirical? Or did Teague really play Rubio closely?

Because if it's the latter... it doesn't make any previous criticism of Rubio wrong. As we're noting, the past 30 games or so from Rubio is not the same we've seen previously. It's closer to the guy anti-Rubio folks were begging for.

It's not satirical at all. Teague was pressing way up on Rubio late in the 4th. I don't think it was to prevent him from shooting, but instead he was applying ball pressure to make it more difficult to get into our offense. In the Wolves final possession, Rubio gave Teague a bit of his own medicine, when as Teague fought around a screen beyond the arc, Rubio did the old stop and "rip through" move and caught Teague's arm on the way up. I hate that call, but Teague did it earlier in the game and we see guys like Harden do it all the freakin' time. Justice was served!

I believe the "Rubio is bad in late game situations" as a lazy excuse for our late game collapses. If you go back and carefully breakdown some of these late game losses over the years, getting defensive stops is the bigger issue IMO. On offense, we are often able to get a clean shot off. Sometimes they go in and sometimes they don't. But rarely is it "4 on 5" with no room for anyone to operate.

Gotcha.

The one rub is that nobody knows how the playoffs would play out -- with more prep time, scheming, et al -- because the Wolves have never even been close to getting there. Most connected folks around the league think the lack of outside shooting is a very real problem in that situation.

Hopefully, Rubio continues to be a scoring threat.
Hopefully, the Wolves make the playoffs some day. Until then, it's all conjecture.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yup, I get the concern in terms of the playoffs. I'd love to see Rubio develop a more reliable 3-point shot. Or Dunn for that matter in the event he eventually takes over for Rubio. I'm not sure Rubio will even be here by the time the team makes the playoffs. My guess is he's fed up with Minnesota at this point and will push to get traded this offseason. His name will be in trade rumors anyway - I think it's worn him out.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Yup, I get the concern in terms of the playoffs. I'd love to see Rubio develop a more reliable 3-point shot. Or Dunn for that matter in the event he eventually takes over for Rubio. I'm not sure Rubio will even be here by the time the team makes the playoffs. My guess is he's fed up with Minnesota at this point and will push to get traded this offseason. His name will be in trade rumors anyway - I think it's worn him out.

I know I'm in the minority ("but he says he loves it here!")... but I think his camp has absolutely no problem with him being traded if it came with another starting gig elsewhere.

And I wouldn't blame him/them.

What ties does he really have here? He's seen a ton of teammates come and go. He's had... 5 coaches? 4 coaches? It's not like Minneapolis is Barcelona-lite. The new coach didn't exactly welcome him with open arms. The fans in Minnesota aren't noted as being special in any way. (no offense). The franchise is a perpetual loser. (I guess he could find solace in helping that turn around... but after so many years...?)

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yup, I get the concern in terms of the playoffs. I'd love to see Rubio develop a more reliable 3-point shot. Or Dunn for that matter in the event he eventually takes over for Rubio. I'm not sure Rubio will even be here by the time the team makes the playoffs. My guess is he's fed up with Minnesota at this point and will push to get traded this offseason. His name will be in trade rumors anyway - I think it's worn him out.

I know I'm in the minority ("but he says he loves it here!")... but I think his camp has absolutely no problem with him being traded if it came with another starting gig elsewhere.

And I wouldn't blame him/them.

What ties does he really have here? He's seen a ton of teammates come and go. He's had... 5 coaches? 4 coaches? It's not like Minneapolis is Barcelona-lite. The new coach didn't exactly welcome him with open arms. The fans in Minnesota aren't noted as being special in any way. (no offense). The franchise is a perpetual loser. (I guess he could find solace in helping that turn around... but after so many years...?)

Right, I agree. I think this season was the final straw: the slow gelling with Thibs, the trade rumors near the deadline, and yet another lost season. I'm positive he and his agent will push for a trade. His strong play should help the cause, but I doubt we get equal value in return for him.

[TAFKASP]

Ricky has really seemed to turn the corner. I've really enjoyed watching him shoot as many holes in my criticism as he does balls on the court. Even when the shots off he's figured out a way to become a guy that needs to be accounted for . It hasn't showed up in w column as much I would've expected but chemistry is building . 48 wins next year!

I really hate when people talk about turning a corner, it usually signals they'll turn three more in the near future and be right back where they started. Rubio has had hot streaks before, though not as hot nor as long, only to return to form. The team itself was said to have turned a defensive corner just a couple weeks ago yet that feels like a distant memory now. Typically the only time Wolves players turn a corner is once they've been traded.

[TAFKASP]

Right, I agree. I think this season was the final straw: the slow gelling with Thibs, the trade rumors near the deadline, and yet another lost season. I'm positive he and his agent will push for a trade. His strong play should help the cause, but I doubt we get equal value in return for him.

What is equal value? Do we expect a team to pay for his recent string of strong play, or his track record? Do they hold onto him now that the light has turned on and risk that it'll go out once again as it has so often in the past? I just don't know how you put a value on a player like Rubio where both teams involved in the trade are effectively betting on one outcome or the other. If you believe he'll be consistent in his recent play he becomes the 3rd member of the big3, if you don't then trade partners know how you feel just by making him available, thus they'll be unwilling to part with value.

Keeping on the Rubio talk, Foxsports has ranked the league by the talent of their top 3 players. The Wolves came in at 16 with Rubio as the third wheel. http://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/nba-big-three-best-teams-ranked-future-power-rankings-032917

[BloopOracle]

I am in the camp that thinks Ricky loves Minnesota and his little group of hipster friends he's always hanging with. I think he sees the potential in our team and with Thibs scaring the s*** out of him and forcing him to expand his offensive game he will go all out this offseason, returning next league year and leading us to 55+ wins with his new and improved catch and shoot 3 point ability

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

SP, Equal value to me would be someone that could come in and fit on our team and impact it the same way Rubio does. To me, a guy like Trevor Ariza would be a great example of providing equal value. Defends other team's top wings, hits the corner 3, and generally makes smart decisions. He can't carry your team, but plays a critical role in winning basketball games.

I'm not suggesting that a trade for Ariza is possible, simply using a real-life example of what I'd define as equal value.

The hard part, admittedly, is finding a team where Rubio is a fit, which is why I think it would be tough to get equal value. So many teams rely on their PG these days to be their key playmaker AND scorer. It's tough to find a team that has enough non-PG shooters and scorers where a pass-first PG makes sense. We are one of those teams by the way! Denver might be another one.

[AbeVigodaLive]

SP, Equal value to me would be someone that could come in and fit on our team and impact it the same way Rubio does. To me, a guy like Trevor Ariza would be a great example of providing equal value. Defends other team's top wings, hits the corner 3, and generally makes smart decisions. He can't carry your team, but plays a critical role in winning basketball games.

I'm not suggesting that a trade for Ariza is possible, simply using a real-life example of what I'd define as equal value.

The hard part, admittedly, is finding a team where Rubio is a fit, which is why I think it would be tough to get equal value. So many teams rely on their PG these days to be their key playmaker AND scorer. It's tough to find a team that has enough non-PG shooters and scorers where a pass-first PG makes sense. We are one of those teams by the way! Denver might be another one.

Denver will be an interesting team to watch moving forward. Jokic is such a gifted passer, I wonder how that affects the PG for them longterm. Clearly, Jameer Nelson isn't the answer. And just as clearly, neither is Mudiay.

That team has so much "decent" talent. But now, they have a legit young possibly star player to build around in Jokic. Can Jokic surrounded by two promising young scorers in Murray and Harris be a foundation moving forward? If so... that team can start unloading some of its other assets to fit around those three guys.

As such, a trade to another team in the same division in a similar predicament seems unlikely for the Wolves.