2016-2017 around the league thread

[Lipoli390]

Great game tonight between OKC and the Clippers. To great teams that really play defense and get after it. Westbrook is truly amazing. I love watching him play. OKC is my backup team to root for in the West after the Wolves.

By the way, the Cubs win the World Series after waiting 108 years. So as Wolves fans we should recognize that anything is possible.

The Cubs are like the Celtics to me...

Granted, the Twins and Wolves will always be my first choice to win titles.

But those two teams were my first loves. Somewhere, Ryne Sandberg is blushing from my awkward crush toward him for the past 30 or so years. Today is a good day.

I grew up in Chicago and have been a Cub fan through the years even though I have since adopted the Twins as my favorite team. I remember well the Ryne Sandberg era. I remember him in 1984 when he finished the season with 19 home runs, 19 triples, over 30 doubles and over 30 SBs. One more HR and one more triple would have made him the only player in Major League history up to that point to end up with at least 20 HRs, 20 triples, 20 doubles and 20 stolen bases. Alas, like everything else in Cubs lore, he came up just short. That is, until last night. Finally, the Cubs crossed the threshold and left our hearts full rather than crushed. I've since adopted the Twins as my favorite teams, I've remained a Cub fan all these years.

[Lipoli390]

I'm getting tired of these ball-dominant guards taking over games. I'm not questioning their greatness - I just prefer teams where the ball moves around more. I'm actively rooting against Lillard/Blazers, Westbrook/OKC, and Harden/Houston. Harden especially has always bugged the hell out of me.

(Oh, and of course I'm rooting against Golden State, but that's just because of their arrogant owner, Draymond Green, and Kevin Durant. They are the evil empire until the Lakers get good again some day).

I'm with you Q on the Warriors as today's face of evil in professional sports. I'm also with you on growing tired of today's ball-dominant guards. However, while I agree with you when it comes to Lillard and Harden, I'm still a big fan of Westbrook. First of all, he's much more exciting to watch than the other two. Second, unlike the other two, he's more than a ball-hogging scorer -- as reflected in his frequent triple-doubles. He's a prolific ball-dominant scorer, but he also rebounds and sets up his teammates. And he's a terrific defender who hustles after loose balls and leads his team. Harden's a good passer, but not much of a rebounder and he's a terrible defender. Lillard sets up his teammates, but not as well in my view as Westbrook and he's not anywhere close to Westbrook as a rebounder or defender.

Questions: What if the Thunder had traded Durant instead of Harden several years ago? Would Harden still be with OKC? Would he mesh with Westbrook? Can you have two ball-dominant scorers on the same team and be a championship contender?

[Monster]

I think most (all?) of us wrote off the Lakers as a team we had to worry about in our playoff hunt, but could they be a beneficiary of addition by subtraction (I'm looking at you, Kobe)? They're not playing particularly good basketball by any measure except final score, but they're a respectable 2-3 after five games...3 road losses to possible or likely playoff teams, and wins against Houston and Atlanta (on the road). That battle for the 8th spot could be more crowded than I thought.

This is exactly why I wasn't buying the early euphoric 50+ win predictions that we saw tossed about here in the offseason. Yes, we will improve and hopefully by a lot. But that doesn't mean the other teams are standing still! The Lakers have a bunch of young guys that are all a year older and more experienced too!

Frankly, I think this thing comes down to injuries. Assuming everyone stays 100% healthy on every team, I think it's a coin flip in terms of us making the playoffs. In reality, some teams will be ravaged by injuries and others will stay relatively healthy. If we can stay relatively healthy, I like our chances of squeaking in.

Yep I agree Q. I thought the Lakers were a team with a group that could factor into the playoff race at least because they for sure have a roster that has the potential to be a 30+ win team. Look at the guards they have on the bench right now. Maybe they don't compete for a playoff spot but them being a 34 win team means they are a tougher out than some bottom feeder. Like Q said injuries could put a team out of the playofffs or put a team to the bottom like the Suns last year. NO is a team i could see injuries adding up and it's already started. They have some interesting roster depth but some of those guys are not exactly reliable dudes and they have started 0-5 despite Davis putting up some terrific stat lines in a few games.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I'm getting tired of these ball-dominant guards taking over games. I'm not questioning their greatness - I just prefer teams where the ball moves around more. I'm actively rooting against Lillard/Blazers, Westbrook/OKC, and Harden/Houston. Harden especially has always bugged the hell out of me.

(Oh, and of course I'm rooting against Golden State, but that's just because of their arrogant owner, Draymond Green, and Kevin Durant. They are the evil empire until the Lakers get good again some day).

I'm with you Q on the Warriors as today's face of evil in professional sports. I'm also with you on growing tired of today's ball-dominant guards. However, while I agree with you when it comes to Lillard and Harden, I'm still a big fan of Westbrook. First of all, he's much more exciting to watch than the other two. Second, unlike the other two, he's more than a ball-hogging scorer -- as reflected in his frequent triple-doubles. He's a prolific ball-dominant scorer, but he also rebounds and sets up his teammates. And he's a terrific defender who hustles after loose balls and leads his team. Harden's a good passer, but not much of a rebounder and he's a terrible defender. Lillard sets up his teammates, but not as well in my view as Westbrook and he's not anywhere close to Westbrook as a rebounder or defender.

Questions: What if the Thunder had traded Durant instead of Harden several years ago? Would Harden still be with OKC? Would he mesh with Westbrook? Can you have two ball-dominant scorers on the same team and be a championship contender?

I hear you Lip on Westbrook. I have total respect for how damn good these guys are, especially Westbrook. He's the ultimate "do shit" kind of player. But still....his constant scowling and "it's me against the world" attitude bugs me. But my larger point is that I like the idea of an ensemble beating a soloist. And it feels like the Wolves are building an ensemble - that's my kind of team.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Lip, On the Harden/Westbrook thing, I think the answer is that yes, you can have two of these guys. Look at Miami with Wade and LeBron. Both were "do everything" type wings for their respective teams before coming together. They were still "do everything" kind of guys, but were able to share the burden while adding a nice third musketeer in Bosh and then a bunch of solid role players.

I've been very intrigued at the Wade/Butler/Rondo trio in Chicago. On paper, that feels like a group of guys that are not only ball-dominant, but not great long-range shooters either. Yet things have gone pretty well for them so far.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Couple of things...

1) Yes. Lip. 1984. I remember those stats. I looked at that card A LOT. And I still have it somewhere.

2) I get the GSW hate a bit. D. Green is unlikable. But did you guys hate the LeBron James' Miami Heat this much?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Couple of things...

1) Yes. Lip. 1984. I remember those stats. I looked at that card A LOT. And I still have it somewhere.

2) I get the GSW hate a bit. D. Green is unlikable. But did you guys hate the LeBron James' Miami Heat this much?

I hated the Heat at first because of "The Decision" fiasco, but eventually accepted their greatness.

I think the Golden State hate gets a boost from the Silicon Valley "we're smarter than everyone else" dynamic, as embodied by Joe Lacob, the owner.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Couple of things...

1) Yes. Lip. 1984. I remember those stats. I looked at that card A LOT. And I still have it somewhere.

2) I get the GSW hate a bit. D. Green is unlikable. But did you guys hate the LeBron James' Miami Heat this much?

I hated the Heat at first because of "The Decision" fiasco, but eventually accepted their greatness.

I think the Golden State hate gets a boost from the Silicon Valley "we're smarter than everyone else" dynamic, as embodied by Joe Lacob, the owner.

Even though Lacob is an idiot... other than that... I don't see how one team gets a pass and the other doesn't. If anything, GSW has a lot more homegrown talent than Miami did (Wade/Haslem).

And, at least none of the Warriors stars have tried to get the coach fired in a fit of petulance yet...

[Monster]

Lip, On the Harden/Westbrook thing, I think the answer is that yes, you can have two of these guys. Look at Miami with Wade and LeBron. Both were "do everything" type wings for their respective teams before coming together. They were still "do everything" kind of guys, but were able to share the burden while adding a nice third musketeer in Bosh and then a bunch of solid role players.

I've been very intrigued at the Wade/Butler/Rondo trio in Chicago. On paper, that feels like a group of guys that are not only ball-dominant, but not great long-range shooters either. Yet things have gone pretty well for them so far.

I watched a chunk of the 2nd quarter of the Celtics Bulls game last night while at work. The Celtics were up well over 10 points when I started watching and then the Bulls went a big run to get right back in it. They were really moving the ball getting easy buckets. Gibson was terrific handling the ball some, scoring passing looking like a fairly multidimensional player. They were actually pretty fun to watch but it was just a few minutes.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Lip, On the Harden/Westbrook thing, I think the answer is that yes, you can have two of these guys. Look at Miami with Wade and LeBron. Both were "do everything" type wings for their respective teams before coming together. They were still "do everything" kind of guys, but were able to share the burden while adding a nice third musketeer in Bosh and then a bunch of solid role players.

I've been very intrigued at the Wade/Butler/Rondo trio in Chicago. On paper, that feels like a group of guys that are not only ball-dominant, but not great long-range shooters either. Yet things have gone pretty well for them so far.

I watched a chunk of the 2nd quarter of the Celtics Bulls game last night while at work. The Celtics were up well over 10 points when I started watching and then the Bulls went a big run to get right back in it. They were really moving the ball getting easy buckets. Gibson was terrific handling the ball some, scoring passing looking like a fairly multidimensional player. They were actually pretty fun to watch but it was just a few minutes.

The Bulls are an interesting team to watch for Wolves fan.

We can talk about talent. And promise. And stats and more stats. But that Chicago team is very very different than the one we watch religiously.

They have A LOT of experience. Those guys know about the little things that need to be done on/off the court to win basketball games. I think that's something that's gonna plague this team all season.


[Note: And to think... I was one of the biggest "KG is a great mentor" detractors.]