What's Wrong With The Defense Thread

[Coolbreeze44]

Just wanted to start a discussion that focuses solely on the defense. The thread asks two basic questions:

1) What is/are the reason(s) our defense is so bad?

2) Why didn't we see the expected improvement over last year and during the season?

I'd really like to hear the board sound off on this. We all know it's bad, but I'm not sure we know why. I'll put my 2 cents in first:

1) I think it's a combination of many things. I'll try to list them beginning with the biggest factors:

- Lack of an inside presence and rim protection
- A bench that was never fully developed leading to starters being taxed and susceptible to runs
- Difficulty the young players had in grasping the complex nuances and responsibilities
- Inability to focus for 24 seconds causing breakdowns late in the shot clock
- Lack of a total commitment at the defensive end of the floor - particularly by our best players
- Very slow rotations caused by all of the factors above

2) The reason I don't think we've seen the expected improvement is we are still a very flawed roster. It's a lot to put on a couple of 21 year olds to carry your team on both ends of the floor. KAT and Wig do fine on offense, but it shouldn't be a surprise they can't expend as much energy on the other end. However, I DO believe this is very fixable. You just need a couple of defensive stalwarts to mix in with what we already have and I think good D can become contagious in a hurry. Imagine DeAndre Jordan manning the middle of our defense and how that would affect everyone else. Think of a shut down wing player being able to take on the other team's best wing. I'm not suggesting we target any specific player or players, just that identifying and acquiring a couple of real good defenders could fix this obvious shortcoming on our roster.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

It's "all of the above".....tough to say what is the biggest factor.

One thing you didn't mention was Coach Thibs, so I will go on my LST-inspired theory.....

KAT was given half the keys to the offense and allowed to blossom into an offensive stud, but has yet to be held accountable for his shit defense. The first thing Thibs did was not have him in the paint guarding Centers. He made Dieng do the dirty work even though longer term KAT has the better potential defensively. Thibs almost never yanked guys for shit defense, so there was never any negative reinforcement in place.

So now we have a damn-near prima donna offense-first big man that plays soft on one end in order to conserve his energy and focus 100% on the other end. Mitchell and now Thibs are his chief enablers. It didn't have to be this way.

By the way, can we now put the final nail in the KG-as-mentor coffin? Whatever KG did to mentor KAT defensively didn't work.

[Coolbreeze44]

It's "all of the above".....tough to say what is the biggest factor.

One thing you didn't mention was Coach Thibs, so I will go on my LST-inspired theory.....

KAT was given half the keys to the offense and allowed to blossom into an offensive stud, but has yet to be held accountable for his shit defense. The first thing Thibs did was not have him in the paint guarding Centers. He made Dieng do the dirty work even though longer term KAT has the better potential defensively. Thibs almost never yanked guys for shit defense, so there was never any negative reinforcement in place.

So now we have a damn-near prima donna offense-first big man that plays soft on one end in order to conserve his energy and focus 100% on the other end. Mitchell and now Thibs are his chief enablers. It didn't have to be this way.

By the way, can we now put the final nail in the KG-as-mentor coffin? Whatever KG did to mentor KAT defensively didn't work.

Pretty good, strong take Q. I didn't mean to excuse Thibs from any blame. I figured his influence is interwoven into all the factors I mentioned.

[AbeVigodaLive]

KAT is a wonderful offensive player. He's amazing. Wiggins is very good with flashes of greatness. Defensively, they suck balls.

As I've said before... they've received an immense amount of praise for what they've done so far. Both are locks for max contracts. Both are considered among the most promising young players in the league. And they've gotten all this acclaim without having to put in the the extra effort on D. They're entitled. They've been enabled. Nobody has made them change, so why would they?

They're young. Winning isn't the most important thing yet. The criticism hasn't started yet... at least not in earnest. It's still delivered with disclaimers about their ages. Eventually, that'll change. But I wouldn't to expect it to happen overnight (regardless of how much they talk about it). Eventually, KAT will exert more energy rotating on D than tackling teammates while chasing uncontested rebounds.

That's why a legit veteran presence is a must. The kids need to learn about the little things that add up to Wins... or Losses. An old chubby yelling guy in a suit can't give them that no matter how loud or often he barks it out.

[Monster]

A couple thought some of which I have motioned before.

Thibs is supposedly a defensive savant. He wants guys to play connected. Mostly it is a roster of young guys and yes guys didn't get negative reinforcement for not performing well defensively. What we don't see is how a guy like Towns works in practice etc. Thibs may feel really confident in Towns and Wiggins doing the work to get where they need to be even if it isn't showing game in game out possession by possession etc. in addition the NBA style of play was at times drastically different. You have guys like Marc Gasol suddenly jacking up 3's. You can't tell me that your defensive concepts would have to change somewhat to account for that. So there are obvious things that you can teach to get guys playing better defense no matter the scheme and I think we saw guys like Bazz and Belly really buy in to some of those fundamentals which was a significant factor as to why they looked like legit defensive players this year. I'd expect Thibs to go back to the drawing board this offseason and come up with some new concepts and schemes and whoever is on the roster will likely be more ready to impliment those.

Just to bear out the point about the league changing and the Wolves defense looking at defensive rating for last few years typicallly there is a decent sized gap between the best defensive time and th worst say .969 to 1.007 or something. This year it was San Antonio 1.004 and Lakers 1.095. So comparitively even the team with one of the best defenders in the league and one of the best coaches of all time in the Spurs were not exactly locking guys down at the level you would expect. This could give Cavs fans worried about their defense some hope. Now obviously the eye test and how things play out tells is there is an obvious gap between the good defensive teams and the ones that are less good and from what ai have heard the eye test isn't kinds to the Cavs defense. Regardless I think these numbers are worth considering when looking at all the factors leading up to the Wolves disappointing showing on that end.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/defensive-efficiency?date=2017-04-15

I thought at times down the stretch the Wolves seemed to have a game here and there they implemented a different game plan than their typical defense and...they struggled to execute it. It SEEMED during those times they were asked to be more aggressive taking away certain things and trapping guys etc. Thibs may have been pleased with what they were doing and tried to impliment some new stuff.

Sam Mitchell told Wolfson's the Wolves young players struggle on defense because it takes more time on that end. He said physically those guys aren't there yet but they will get stronger and that is going to matter. This stuff gets old to hear but the guys are 21 and 22 years old. That's still pretty young an they are doing some pretty amazing things offensively.

The bottom line is that it's troubling the Wolves weren't better on defense but who better than Thibs to figure it out? Do you think the league has passed him by and he really doesn't know what he is doing? Do you really think that Towns and Wiggins just won't ever figure out how to play defense? I know I am a homer but I just don't buy that these guys won't get it together on that end.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Sam Mitchell told Wolfson's the Wolves young players struggle on defense because it takes more time on that end. He said physically those guys aren't there yet but they will get stronger and that is going to matter. This stuff gets old to hear but the guys are 21 and 22 years old. That's still pretty young an they are doing some pretty amazing things offensively.

The bottom line is that it's troubling the Wolves weren't better on defense but who better than Thibs to figure it out? Do you think the league has passed him by and he really doesn't know what he is doing? Do you really think that Towns and Wiggins just won't ever figure out how to play defense? I know I am a homer but I just don't buy that these guys won't get it together on that end.

There are literally hundreds of former and current NBA players who never got it together defensively... for a wide range of reasons.

So much of it depends on a player's drive as an athlete and competitor. Both Wiggins and Towns have the size and athleticism already to be better defensively. And we hear good things about them as hard workers... we'll see what comes of it. Hopefully, they're the types who don't just talk about being among the best -- they actually mean it.

We'll find out over the next two years...

[Coolbreeze44]

Unless Towns and Wiggins are the only problems you see with the defense, let's make a concerted effort not to turn this into a thread only about them. They are certainly part of the problem, but the problems go deeper than that in my opinion.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Unless Towns and Wiggins are the only problems you see with the defense, let's make a concerted effort not to turn this into a thread only about them. They are certainly part of the problem, but the problems go deeper than that in my opinion.

Sure. Obviously. But nobody cares about Brandon Rush or Shabazz Muhammad and they aren't in the team's future, so they're irrelevant.

KAT and Wiggins are the future. They are the most important people on the team. And they're the most likely to be here for next season... and many more years. Most importantly, they were #1 and #2 in the entire NBA for minutes played.

So it's safe to say they are more critical for any defensive improvement than anybody else... maybe in the entire league. It's a gigantic elephant sitting in the room if we try to ignore it.

[Lipoli390]

I agree with Cool's take on our poor defense. I think it's multi-faceted and I can't come up with anything to add to Cool's list. I would love to add D'Andre Jordan to this team. I just can't see how we can make that happen. But I agree with Cool that adding one or two defensive stalwarts to this team would be transformative -- even if only one of them was in our starting lineup. Any ideas on other defensive stalwarts at the C or PF positions we might be able to sign as FAs or trade for without giving up any of our core players?

[BloopOracle]

I remember Zach saying early in the season that this is the first time in his career anyone has ever taught him about help defense. With statements like that it's no wonder our defense didn't instantly take off last season. Dumbass Smitch