Losing in LA - Wolves @ Lakers

[slimcalhoun27 [enjin:6640095]]

I enjoy reading the comments and arguments on this board, always have....but this topic point of Wiggins and KAT are just looking for stats and not making the rest of the team better is garbage. Stupid actually.

This would be a 5 win team if they didn't have to play hero ball on a nightly basis. Get over yourselves and stop blaming two 20-21 year olds for being put into a position of being the only two players who can score on a regular basis. Who else is going to score? Who is Wiggins going to pass to and assist on an outside jumper or finish around the rim besides KAT? When KAT gets the ball, who is making back cuts or makes the effort to get open or make a pick for him to open up the passing lanes? NO ONE. Someone in the media just brought this up in an article about how the rest of the Wolves just STOP when he gets the ball. Really? Not one player is still trying to get open?

I was at the Blazers game the other night, first quarter was a perfectly executed offensive game plan. Everyone was moving, spacing was excellent and the speed of attack at the rim was unstoppable. Rest of the game, especially the 4th, zero player movement. Zero.

If this team wants to get better, they better start going after players who can stretch the court, a SG who can move and make cuts and step back and hit the 3. Plus a bruising PF who can step out and consistently hit a 15-18 or post up in ISO and let KAT stay outside the paint.

Anyone not named Rubio, Wiggins, Lavine, Dunn and KAT need to go. Spend money and see if they can more then lax ass role player on the bench. Denver Kenneth Faried would be my first guy, Terrance Jones, and whatever starter quality 2, 3 or 4, type package deal we can get for our 7 or better lotto pick. Worst over all bench in the NBA. Eff Brandon Rush, guy is not a starter by any means.

[slimcalhoun27 [enjin:6640095]]

I enjoy reading the comments and arguments on this board, always have....but this topic point of Wiggins and KAT are just looking for stats and not making the rest of the team better is garbage. Stupid actually.

This would be a 5 win team if they didn't have to play hero ball on a nightly basis. Get over yourselves and stop blaming two 20-21 year olds for being put into a position of being the only two players who can score on a regular basis. Who else is going to score? Who is Wiggins going to pass to and assist on an outside jumper or finish around the rim besides KAT? When KAT gets the ball, who is making back cuts or makes the effort to get open or make a pick for him to open up the passing lanes? NO ONE. Someone in the media just brought this up in an article about how the rest of the Wolves just STOP when he gets the ball. Really? Not one player is still trying to get open?

I was at the Blazers game the other night, first quarter was a perfectly executed offensive game plan. Everyone was moving, spacing was excellent and the speed of attack at the rim was unstoppable. Rest of the game, especially the 4th, zero player movement. Zero.

If this team wants to get better, they better start going after players who can stretch the court, a SG who can move and make cuts and step back and hit the 3. Plus a bruising PF who can step out and consistently hit a 15-18 or post up in ISO and let KAT stay outside the paint.

Anyone not named Rubio, Wiggins, Lavine, Dunn and KAT need to go. Spend money and see if they can more then lax ass role player on the bench. Denver Kenneth Faried would be my first guy, Terrance Jones, and whatever starter quality 2, 3 or 4, type package deal we can get for our 7 or better lotto pick. Worst over all bench in the NBA. Eff Brandon Rush, guy is not a starter by any means.

[Porckchop]

So you don't want to get rid of anyone of value but wanna get something back in return? Someone of those guys listed will have to go to bolster a weakness. It ain't gonna be Wiggins or Kat but everything else should be considered. Not even the best teams in the league will keep their 5 best players in the off-season. So when your the 7th worst team and have been so for 13 years any and everything should be considered.

[slimcalhoun27 [enjin:6640095]]

So you don't want to get rid of anyone of value but wanna get something back in return? Someone of those guys listed will have to go to bolster a weakness. It ain't gonna be Wiggins or Kat but everything else should be considered. Not even the best teams in the league will keep their 5 best players in the off-season. So when your the 7th worst team and have been so for 13 years any and everything should be considered.

What value does Lavine have right now? Minimal. Dunn was never give an opportunity to play consistent minutes, both because of erratic play and rubios resurgence since the all star game. His Value once again is low in my opinion. Rubio? Played himself well into contract and is actually the only player who's salary is low compared to his play. Dieng, I'm not sure we can trade him because he doesn't accel as a starter and the wolves solely played him all season to expose his inabilities. I'm sure Bazz will get a nice contract offer from another team. Tell me who else you think we should trade?

I understand your point, but once again, since most all of the roster expect for a small fee played at there lowest levels (hill, Aldrich, rush) we are in essence trying to trade away or package players who demand zero or low value. It's becoming a trend for the Wolves organization to kill young talent and thwart free agent value

[Porckchop]

Well you don't want to trade anyone from a 31 win team. I'm saying something has to give. We always overvalue our own players. Personally Kat is the only untouchable, I would keep Wiggins but I if the Wolves got a ridiculous offer than so be it. You ask who would I Trade? Anyone but those two at this point.

[AbeVigodaLive]

So we're in una

I enjoy reading the comments and arguments on this board, always have....but this topic point of Wiggins and KAT are just looking for stats and not making the rest of the team better is garbage. Stupid actually.

This would be a 5 win team if they didn't have to play hero ball on a nightly basis. Get over yourselves and stop blaming two 20-21 year olds for being put into a position of being the only two players who can score on a regular basis. Who else is going to score? Who is Wiggins going to pass to and assist on an outside jumper or finish around the rim besides KAT? When KAT gets the ball, who is making back cuts or makes the effort to get open or make a pick for him to open up the passing lanes? NO ONE. Someone in the media just brought this up in an article about how the rest of the Wolves just STOP when he gets the ball. Really? Not one player is still trying to get open?

I was at the Blazers game the other night, first quarter was a perfectly executed offensive game plan. Everyone was moving, spacing was excellent and the speed of attack at the rim was unstoppable. Rest of the game, especially the 4th, zero player movement. Zero.

If this team wants to get better, they better start going after players who can stretch the court, a SG who can move and make cuts and step back and hit the 3. Plus a bruising PF who can step out and consistently hit a 15-18 or post up in ISO and let KAT stay outside the paint.

Anyone not named Rubio, Wiggins, Lavine, Dunn and KAT need to go. Spend money and see if they can more then lax ass role player on the bench. Denver Kenneth Faried would be my first guy, Terrance Jones, and whatever starter quality 2, 3 or 4, type package deal we can get for our 7 or better lotto pick. Worst over all bench in the NBA. Eff Brandon Rush, guy is not a starter by any means.

Huh?

I don't think there's anybody on this forum who doesn't think Towns and Wiggins are incredibly important... good... and the future. It's ok to criticize them for specific parts of their game without assuming we're ripping them incessantly and think they suck.

They're good. They need to improve. They need better players around them. Simple as that.

[TheFuture]

So you don't want to get rid of anyone of value but wanna get something back in return? Someone of those guys listed will have to go to bolster a weakness. It ain't gonna be Wiggins or Kat but everything else should be considered. Not even the best teams in the league will keep their 5 best players in the off-season. So when your the 7th worst team and have been so for 13 years any and everything should be considered.

Like Slim stated, trading Dunn or LaVine now would be selling extremely low.

The only assets we should look to trade are Dieng, Tyus, Aldrich.

Would we get anything special for any of those 3 players? No. But it is possible to find a piece or two that better fits our roster.

[Porckchop]

That's the same mindset fans had on here last year and they were very happy with the moves for Aldrich and Rush. I don't think conservative moves like that will be enough to move the needle

[thedoper]

That's the same mindset fans had on here last year and they were very happy with the moves for Aldrich and Rush. I don't think conservative moves like that will be enough to move the needle

Agree 100%

[Lipoli390]

Thibs isn't going to trade Gorgui. He loves him and has repeatedly talked about all the Gorgui positives that don't show up in the box score. I happen to agree with Thibs on this. Watching Gorgui live game after game really highlights his positives. He tends to always be in the right place at the right time on both ends. He has a very reliable mid-range shot along with underutilized 3-point range. He's tough and is the only player other than Ricky with both the willingness and ability to take a charge. Of course any player is ultimately tradeable for the right return. But I don't see Thibs shopping Gorgui and I don't see a realistic trade that results in a net improvement for the Wolves.

I've always opposed trading LaVine because of his high upside and worth ethic. In an era that requires 3-point shooting for team success in the NBA, LaVine is by far our best 3-point shooter and, in fact, is one of the better 3-point shooters in the NBA. He is lightning fast with the ball and has excellent lateral quickness. He's also the only reliable ball-handler other than Ricky in our rotation. He's had far fewer minutes than Wiggins at both the college and NBA levels, so he hasn't had the same opportunity as Wiggins to develop. That suggests even more likely improvement from LaVine compared to Wiggins. Finally, even if it made sense to trade LaVine, trading him this summer while he's still rehabbing from a torn ACL would be selling low and, therefore, strategically silly.

I'd like to trade Dunn. I like his defensive potential, but his offense is so fundamentally broken that I have a hard time seeing him ever become a starting guard in the NBA. He shoots moonshots from the perimeter, has no discernable moves to the rim and has a hard time finishing at the rim if/when he gets there. It be one thing is he were an 18 year old with only one year of college ball under his belt. But he played 3 years of college ball with a lot of minutes at that level. And after a full year with the Wolves playing limited minutes but practicing regularly against his teammates, I've seen very little significant improvement. However, I don't see much point in trading him because every other team has seen what I just described and I suspect his value is lower than it was last summer during the draft. Therefore, we'd be selling low if we traded him this summer. I can't see getting anything in return for him that would move the needle. Instead, I'd rather see if he can improve over the summer. He seems driven and by all accounts has a great worth ethic. And he does have the potential to be an elite defender. So I wouldn't shop Dunn,.

I'm with those who would not trade Wiggins, KAT or Ricky either. I'd consider trading Belly assuming no lingering foot issues that would diminish his trade value. However, I'd be reluctant to trade him as would Thibs. After some initial struggles, Belly established himself as a very good defender and rebounder off the bench and, therefore, highly valueable even when his shot's not dropping. He also has the ability to hit the three and score going to the hole. His contract is cheap, although it only has one year left.

So it's fair to ask: how can this team improve between now and next season if we don't trade any of the players I discussed above?

First of all, we should expect significant improvement from within as our key players are still very young and had to adjust to a new coach with a very different coaching style than his two predecessors. There is no doubt in my mind that we underachieved this season and that we already have the talent on this roster to get into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed. Maybe it was poor coaching or perhaps it was coaching focused on long-development rather than short-term wins. I suspect at least part of the underachieving resulting from the fact that the players had to adjust to a new head coach with a radically different approach to coaching than they were accustomed to with Flip and Sam. And part of it was the fact that our three best players - KAT, Wiggins and Zach were still only 21 years old this season. Losing Zach and Belly down the stretch clearly hurt the team as well. Watching Rush finish with 0 points, 0 assists, 0 rebounds and 0 steals in 30 minutes last night was a reminder to those who have somehow been deluded into thinking that we're better off without Zach. And Watching Casspi fill in for Belly? Well, I'll leave it at that. Improvement from KAT and Wiggins, along with the return of Zach and Belly and a year playing together under Thibs should combine for a lot more wins next season -- especially when you consider how many very close games we lost and how many big leads we blew.

Second, we have ample cap room to acquire one or two nice pieces through free agency to significantly improve this team. Some names that come to mind include: Taj Gibson, PF Tucker, Zaza Pachulia, Darren Collison, JJ Redick, Tony Allen, Sefolosha, Zach Randolph.

Third, we'll have the 7th or 8th pick in a pretty good draft. We can potentially improve the team by keeping the pick or trading the pick in combination with an existing player like Tyus Jones or Cole Aldrich.

It's possible that the Pacers decide to rebuild and offer Paul George for LaVine and our pick. I doubt it, but who knows. If so, I'd grab that deal and run with it even though I'm still really high on Zach. The Bulls might offer Butler in a similar deal. But offers like these are unlikely, which means (in my view) that our improvement will have to come primarily from improvement within and free agency.