longstrangetrip wrote:Q, I don't think I agree with your premise that Tyus has been exposed, and that his performance has deteriorated since Zach went down. Yes, his shooting and scoring have gotten worse, but his per 48 numbers (offense and defense) were very strong in the month of March...10.3 assists vs. only 2.5 TOs, and 3.8 steals. His lateral quickness will always be a problem for him in preventing penetration, but his smarts and quick hands make him disruptive on defense. I continue to maintain that Tyus needs more minutes, and especially more minutes at the point, and that he doesn't thrive in games like last night where Thibs gives him less then 10 minutes. Thibs' lack of confidence in Tyus in the face of consistent excellent plus/minus numbers is one of my biggest problems with him.
The problem is his +/- numbers have been in the negative since the All Star Break, which coincides with the time he began getting more regular rotation minutes.
Again, the title of my post might have been a bit harsh, as I do want to hold onto Tyus and think he has some redeeming qualities. But he's been more part of the problem of late than the solution. His defense combined with almost zero scoring output has really limited his impact.
I think Tyus has been exposed to a certain extent (and Rush too) but let's also remember Tyus is basically playing at least half of his minutes as a SG. It's almost like when Thibs was using Rubio off the ball with other guys handling the ball earlier in the year. Tyus has more of the skill set to playoff the ball that Rubio had shown so it makes sense to play him like that with Dunn but what if Thibs had him as a high usage PG like he has done with Rubio the last few months? Would we see Tyus as much more valueable? Probably. Tyus still seems to come up with a deflection or a steal or a loose ball every game that helps make up some for his physical limitations. He is still quite young I think it comes down to offensively if he can become more skilled both as a shooter and finishing around the rim. Plenty of guys have made it work. Look at CJ that guy isn't a bad athlete but it's his skill and brains that make him a special player. We will see if Tyus can keep improving. My guess is yes.
monsterpile wrote:I think Tyus has been exposed to a certain extent (and Rush too) but let's also remember Tyus is basically playing at least half of his minutes as a SG. It's almost like when Thibs was using Rubio off the ball with other guys handling the ball earlier in the year. Tyus has more of the skill set to playoff the ball that Rubio had shown so it makes sense to play him like that with Dunn but what if Thibs had him as a high usage PG like he has done with Rubio the last few months? Would we see Tyus as much more valueable? Probably. Tyus still seems to come up with a deflection or a steal or a loose ball every game that helps make up some for his physical limitations. He is still quite young I think it comes down to offensively if he can become more skilled both as a shooter and finishing around the rim. Plenty of guys have made it work. Look at CJ that guy isn't a bad athlete but it's his skill and brains that make him a special player. We will see if Tyus can keep improving. My guess is yes.
I agree with this take that Tyus isn't as effective as a SG, and it frustrates me to see him in that role when paired up with Dunn. In their respective final college seasons, Tyus was as effective as a true PG as any PG in the country...and won a national championship...while Dunn played more minutes off the ball than he did at the point (look it up...Providence had a true PG that year that didn't start, but played about 22 MPG, forcing Dunn to SG where his ability to score off the dribble was still effective). Thibs' attempt to reverse their roles is akin to trying to pound two square pegs into two round holes...it was destined for failure, and both Dunn and Jones seemed to regress offensively as the season progressed. Great coaches make young players better...I'm waiting for evidence that Thibs can do this, and I'm quite skeptical.
monsterpile wrote:I think Tyus has been exposed to a certain extent (and Rush too) but let's also remember Tyus is basically playing at least half of his minutes as a SG. It's almost like when Thibs was using Rubio off the ball with other guys handling the ball earlier in the year. Tyus has more of the skill set to playoff the ball that Rubio had shown so it makes sense to play him like that with Dunn but what if Thibs had him as a high usage PG like he has done with Rubio the last few months? Would we see Tyus as much more valueable? Probably. Tyus still seems to come up with a deflection or a steal or a loose ball every game that helps make up some for his physical limitations. He is still quite young I think it comes down to offensively if he can become more skilled both as a shooter and finishing around the rim. Plenty of guys have made it work. Look at CJ that guy isn't a bad athlete but it's his skill and brains that make him a special player. We will see if Tyus can keep improving. My guess is yes.
I agree with this take that Tyus isn't as effective as a SG, and it frustrates me to see him in that role when paired up with Dunn. In their respective final college seasons, Tyus was as effective as a true PG as any PG in the country...and won a national championship...while Dunn played more minutes off the ball than he did at the point (look it up...Providence had a true PG that year that didn't start, but played about 22 MPG, forcing Dunn to SG where his ability to score off the dribble was still effective). Thibs' attempt to reverse their roles is akin to trying to pound two square pegs into two round holes...it was destined for failure, and both Dunn and Jones seemed to regress offensively as the season progressed. Great coaches make young players better...I'm waiting for evidence that Thibs can do this, and I'm quite skeptical.
Whether Tyus is playing on or off the ball he has to make his shots when he gets his opportunities. He hasn't lately. That's hurt. He needs to be able to hit a reasonably good percentage of his 3's regardless of how he is used. Honestly I think at times Dunn should have some chances to do his thing as a higher usage guy. I think playing in the Summer league this year could really help him and usually I don't put a lot of stock in that.
monsterpile wrote:I think Tyus has been exposed to a certain extent (and Rush too) but let's also remember Tyus is basically playing at least half of his minutes as a SG. It's almost like when Thibs was using Rubio off the ball with other guys handling the ball earlier in the year. Tyus has more of the skill set to playoff the ball that Rubio had shown so it makes sense to play him like that with Dunn but what if Thibs had him as a high usage PG like he has done with Rubio the last few months? Would we see Tyus as much more valueable? Probably. Tyus still seems to come up with a deflection or a steal or a loose ball every game that helps make up some for his physical limitations. He is still quite young I think it comes down to offensively if he can become more skilled both as a shooter and finishing around the rim. Plenty of guys have made it work. Look at CJ that guy isn't a bad athlete but it's his skill and brains that make him a special player. We will see if Tyus can keep improving. My guess is yes.
I agree with this take that Tyus isn't as effective as a SG, and it frustrates me to see him in that role when paired up with Dunn. In their respective final college seasons, Tyus was as effective as a true PG as any PG in the country...and won a national championship...while Dunn played more minutes off the ball than he did at the point (look it up...Providence had a true PG that year that didn't start, but played about 22 MPG, forcing Dunn to SG where his ability to score off the dribble was still effective). Thibs' attempt to reverse their roles is akin to trying to pound two square pegs into two round holes...it was destined for failure, and both Dunn and Jones seemed to regress offensively as the season progressed. Great coaches make young players better...I'm waiting for evidence that Thibs can do this, and I'm quite skeptical.
Thibs isn't some brand new coach. The evidence is what he did in Chicago. Less than a season is not much to turn around the most losing franchise in NBA history.
monsterpile wrote:I think Tyus has been exposed to a certain extent (and Rush too) but let's also remember Tyus is basically playing at least half of his minutes as a SG. It's almost like when Thibs was using Rubio off the ball with other guys handling the ball earlier in the year. Tyus has more of the skill set to playoff the ball that Rubio had shown so it makes sense to play him like that with Dunn but what if Thibs had him as a high usage PG like he has done with Rubio the last few months? Would we see Tyus as much more valueable? Probably. Tyus still seems to come up with a deflection or a steal or a loose ball every game that helps make up some for his physical limitations. He is still quite young I think it comes down to offensively if he can become more skilled both as a shooter and finishing around the rim. Plenty of guys have made it work. Look at CJ that guy isn't a bad athlete but it's his skill and brains that make him a special player. We will see if Tyus can keep improving. My guess is yes.
I agree with this take that Tyus isn't as effective as a SG, and it frustrates me to see him in that role when paired up with Dunn. In their respective final college seasons, Tyus was as effective as a true PG as any PG in the country...and won a national championship...while Dunn played more minutes off the ball than he did at the point (look it up...Providence had a true PG that year that didn't start, but played about 22 MPG, forcing Dunn to SG where his ability to score off the dribble was still effective). Thibs' attempt to reverse their roles is akin to trying to pound two square pegs into two round holes...it was destined for failure, and both Dunn and Jones seemed to regress offensively as the season progressed. Great coaches make young players better...I'm waiting for evidence that Thibs can do this, and I'm quite skeptical.
Thibs isn't some brand new coach. The evidence is what he did in Chicago. Less than a season is not much to turn around the most losing franchise in NBA history.
I'm confused by this tyus plays point and starts the offense when he is in the game. Tyus guards the pg and Dunn the sg and vise versa when teams guard the wolves
Both Dunn and Tyus have a place on this team next year, but to me, right now, they are both fringe rotation players on a good team. Tyus is an excellent 3rd pg who can step in if needed at the end of games. Dunn has shown enough so far to put him on the court in certain situations, but you really hope he comes back next year and shows a lot more so he deserves minutes every game.
Regardless, I do think at this point we need another point guard. The dropoff from rubio to dunn or jones right now is a chasm, and that's even when Rubio hasn't been at his best. We need a backup point guard that not only can hold the fort most nights, but others play well enough to step in for Rubio when he doesn't have it.
Mstermisty wrote:Both Dunn and Tyus have a place on this team next year, but to me, right now, they are both fringe rotation players on a good team. Tyus is an excellent 3rd pg who can step in if needed at the end of games. Dunn has shown enough so far to put him on the court in certain situations, but you really hope he comes back next year and shows a lot more so he deserves minutes every game.
Regardless, I do think at this point we need another point guard. The dropoff from rubio to dunn or jones right now is a chasm, and that's even when Rubio hasn't been at his best. We need a backup point guard that not only can hold the fort most nights, but others play well enough to step in for Rubio when he doesn't have it.
What makes it worse is the Wolves with Lavine hurt they have no natural SG either. So if Tyus or Dunn is in there they are not playing with a dynamic scorer or shooter next to them unless Wiggins is there or they are paired with...Rubio. Lol the Wolves could use another guard that can make plays for themselves or others at SG. It doesn't have to be a starting level guy just a legit rotation guy that can handle the ball and hit 3's. Drafting a guard would make for a crowded group of guys but you point out there is somewhat of a need. Ideally Dunn and Tyus get better and help some at both spots.
monsterpile wrote:I think Tyus has been exposed to a certain extent (and Rush too) but let's also remember Tyus is basically playing at least half of his minutes as a SG. It's almost like when Thibs was using Rubio off the ball with other guys handling the ball earlier in the year. Tyus has more of the skill set to playoff the ball that Rubio had shown so it makes sense to play him like that with Dunn but what if Thibs had him as a high usage PG like he has done with Rubio the last few months? Would we see Tyus as much more valueable? Probably. Tyus still seems to come up with a deflection or a steal or a loose ball every game that helps make up some for his physical limitations. He is still quite young I think it comes down to offensively if he can become more skilled both as a shooter and finishing around the rim. Plenty of guys have made it work. Look at CJ that guy isn't a bad athlete but it's his skill and brains that make him a special player. We will see if Tyus can keep improving. My guess is yes.
I agree with this take that Tyus isn't as effective as a SG, and it frustrates me to see him in that role when paired up with Dunn. In their respective final college seasons, Tyus was as effective as a true PG as any PG in the country...and won a national championship...while Dunn played more minutes off the ball than he did at the point (look it up...Providence had a true PG that year that didn't start, but played about 22 MPG, forcing Dunn to SG where his ability to score off the dribble was still effective). Thibs' attempt to reverse their roles is akin to trying to pound two square pegs into two round holes...it was destined for failure, and both Dunn and Jones seemed to regress offensively as the season progressed. Great coaches make young players better...I'm waiting for evidence that Thibs can do this, and I'm quite skeptical.
Thibs isn't some brand new coach. The evidence is what he did in Chicago. Less than a season is not much to turn around the most losing franchise in NBA history.
I'm confused by this tyus plays point and starts the offense when he is in the game. Tyus guards the pg and Dunn the sg and vise versa when teams guard the wolves
I don't chart the way it's divided up but Tyus and Dunn do share the duties as the PG when they are out there together. Regardless plenty of time they aren't the featured guy like I mentioned in my post.
