Windhorst: Towns and Butler pushing for Irving trade

[BloopOracle]

Wings are the premium in the NBA. They are the ticket to winning in the playoffs. We have one superstar and one potential superstar in our hand, and a very good pg already. If we trade for Irving and sign some filler SG or play teague/irving together, then we are reducing our offensive matchup advantages while also largely reducing our defensive potential. Teague/Wiggins/Butler/Dieng/Towns >> Teague/Irving/Butler/Dieng/Towns.

There are no good arguments for a Wiggins + for Irving swap.
We've made enough win-now moves this offseason. Let's not make a mistake of completely overhauling the potential.

Please lol there are plenty of arguments to be made for a Wiggins & Irving swap, I am on the side of keeping Wiggins with an eye on Irving in the future to see if he still wants to come here but Irving is an elite 3 level scorer, and Olympian and a closer, NBA Finals crunch time tested. He would give us spacing and a top 5 PG, Wing, and Center, that sounds like a pretty good argument to me.

[Big O [enjin:13874644]]

Per Woj
Cleveland finalizing deal to send Kyrie Irving to Phoenix for Bledsoe, Chriss and a protected 2018 1st.

Fake woj. Get me another beer....

[BloopOracle]

Per Woj
Cleveland finalizing deal to send Kyrie Irving to Phoenix for Bledsoe, Chriss and a protected 2018 1st.

I don't see that tweet anywhere on twitter

[thedoper]

Per Woj
Cleveland finalizing deal to send Kyrie Irving to Phoenix for Bledsoe, Chriss and a protected 2018 1st.

Fake woj. Get me another beer....

I love fake Woj. I'll take another too.

[TheFuture]

Wings are the premium in the NBA. They are the ticket to winning in the playoffs. We have one superstar and one potential superstar in our hand, and a very good pg already. If we trade for Irving and sign some filler SG or play teague/irving together, then we are reducing our offensive matchup advantages while also largely reducing our defensive potential. Teague/Wiggins/Butler/Dieng/Towns >> Teague/Irving/Butler/Dieng/Towns.

There are no good arguments for a Wiggins + for Irving swap.
We've made enough win-now moves this offseason. Let's not make a mistake of completely overhauling the potential.

Please lol there are plenty of arguments to be made for a Wiggins & Irving swap, I am on the side of keeping Wiggins with an eye on Irving in the future to see if he still wants to come here but Irving is an elite 3 level scorer, and Olympian and a closer, NBA Finals crunch time tested. He would give us spacing and a top 5 PG, Wing, and Center, that sounds like a pretty good argument to me.

There really aren't any. Wiggins is 22, averaging 24, and can be locked up for 6 years at a position that is far less saturated then the PG position. His defensive numbers sucked, yes. But he was also a 19-21 year old guarding men since his rookie year, yet he still battled and put buckets in, and is going into his second year under the defensive guru that is Thibs.

We already have Teague. The drop off from Irving to Teague is far less than a drop off from Wiggins to what we Crawford or whatever vet min. Guy. The playoffs is about getting buckets, we already have a pg, 2 wings, and towns who can do so, while also keeping a length/athleticism advantage. Is kyrie better than Wiggs now? Yes. Does he make more sense for our team if the cost is Wiggins? Absolutely not.

Further, we can all talk about the what ifs. Let's focus on the guarantees: In two years we can guarantee a core of KAT or a core of KAT and Wiggins. That is huge.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Wings are the premium in the NBA. They are the ticket to winning in the playoffs. We have one superstar and one potential superstar in our hand, and a very good pg already. If we trade for Irving and sign some filler SG or play teague/irving together, then we are reducing our offensive matchup advantages while also largely reducing our defensive potential. Teague/Wiggins/Butler/Dieng/Towns >> Teague/Irving/Butler/Dieng/Towns.

There are no good arguments for a Wiggins + for Irving swap.
We've made enough win-now moves this offseason. Let's not make a mistake of completely overhauling the potential.

Elite PG's don't hurt either. Steph, Kyrie and IT on 3 of the last 4 teams. Wall, CP3, Westbrook, Lowry, defacto PG Harden, Conley and Lillard. That's 9 (10 if you count Harden which I know you won't) out of 16 and the Spurs are the only team to reach the last 4 without one. 9/16 to 5/8 to 3/4 to 2/2. Seems to be pretty important to have one.

[TheFuture]

Wings are the premium in the NBA. They are the ticket to winning in the playoffs. We have one superstar and one potential superstar in our hand, and a very good pg already. If we trade for Irving and sign some filler SG or play teague/irving together, then we are reducing our offensive matchup advantages while also largely reducing our defensive potential. Teague/Wiggins/Butler/Dieng/Towns >> Teague/Irving/Butler/Dieng/Towns.

There are no good arguments for a Wiggins + for Irving swap.
We've made enough win-now moves this offseason. Let's not make a mistake of completely overhauling the potential.

Elite PG's don't hurt either. Steph, Kyrie and IT on 3 of the last 4 teams. Wall, CP3, Westbrook, Lowry, defacto PG Harden, Conley and Lillard. That's 9 (10 if you count Harden which I know you won't) out of 16 and the Spurs are the only team to reach the last 4 without one. 9/16 to 5/8 to 3/4 to 2/2. Seems to be pretty important to have one.

This is a shit argument. Stephen -> see the rest of his team. Kyrie as well. You can list 10 pgs for every 5 important wings. That's not because PGs are more important, its because it is filly saturated. Wiggins and Towns were forced to score tough bucket after tough bucket because they couldn't rely on their pg to score. Watch what happens whith teague here, who is no slouch at the position. Efficiency will increase, as will defensive impact. Sit pat and make the playoffs. Add pieces next year after actually proving aomething. The reasonable moves have been made, getting ahead of yourself now would be a bad move.

[TheFuture]

You can't get an Irving talent off of a tree. But you have a better chance finding a 6-6'4 guy who can get closer to meeting that value than you can finding a 6'8 guy with wiggins skillset. The proof is in the talent pool.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Wings are the premium in the NBA. They are the ticket to winning in the playoffs. We have one superstar and one potential superstar in our hand, and a very good pg already. If we trade for Irving and sign some filler SG or play teague/irving together, then we are reducing our offensive matchup advantages while also largely reducing our defensive potential. Teague/Wiggins/Butler/Dieng/Towns >> Teague/Irving/Butler/Dieng/Towns.

There are no good arguments for a Wiggins + for Irving swap.
We've made enough win-now moves this offseason. Let's not make a mistake of completely overhauling the potential.

Elite PG's don't hurt either. Steph, Kyrie and IT on 3 of the last 4 teams. Wall, CP3, Westbrook, Lowry, defacto PG Harden, Conley and Lillard. That's 9 (10 if you count Harden which I know you won't) out of 16 and the Spurs are the only team to reach the last 4 without one. 9/16 to 5/8 to 3/4 to 2/2. Seems to be pretty important to have one.

This is a shit argument. Stephen -> see the rest of his team. Kyrie as well. You can list 10 pgs for every 5 important wings. That's not because PGs are more important, its because it is filly saturated. Wiggins and Towns were forced to score tough bucket after tough bucket because they couldn't rely on their pg to score. Watch what happens whith teague here, who is no slouch at the position. Efficiency will increase, as will defensive impact. Sit pat and make the playoffs. Add pieces next year after actually proving aomething. The reasonable moves have been made, getting ahead of yourself now would be a bad move.

When you have the chance to trade potential for a top 15 player you do it. Who's actually won a trade by getting back potential pieces for a top 15 player in recent history. Harden trade nope. Love trade nope. PG trade nope. The Butler trade has been deemed a landslide by just about everyone. The Cousins trade is still TBD, but even that only looks close because they weren't good with Cousins anyway. Recent history strongly sides with getting the top 15 player over sitting on the potential. A 1 year roster imbalance is a shit argument against getting a top 15 player.

[Crazysauce]

So my biggest concern with wiggins is that its easy to get buckets on a losing team. I mean look at the numbers Love put up here. Some guys play a losing brand of basketball. Also with wiggins him talking about being deserving of a max contract "nothing less". This is very concerning to me as the guy has accomplished nothing and is quite the brash statement to make for someone who doesnt play any defense. I feel that Wiggins has been coddled way too damn much and feels hes already great. I also dont see a guy who is hell bent on winning. I havent seen any improvement on the defensive end for wiggins. I mean the guy is rated one of the worst at his position in the league. I worry wiggins is a product of what was around him. He was forced to score. Not a good cutter, not a great shooter and doesnt make his teammates better. Potential is there but I seriously worry he becomes a Rudy Gay type locked into a big deal. Irving is a fiery competitor who hates to lose. Not a defender either.

That being said, I sound like a huge Irving advocate but I am truly torn on this. I think i fall in keep wiggins as our roster without him leaves a big hole. Also i am really hoping, that butler (the alpha) and gibson will get after him and towns and truly turn this defense around. I think we need to hold onto wiggins. The fact that its so split tells you its a pretty damn fair trade.

Just wondering, would a deal of teague and dieng and our okc 1st work in a deal for irving and frye after dec 15th?

Also damn i love jimmy butler.