Windhorst: Towns and Butler pushing for Irving trade

[BloopOracle]

This tweet could explain the kyrie thing. This is from his teammate Richard Jefferson

Check out @Carter_Shade's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Carter_Shade/status/889528031693463554?s=01

Puts Irving's situation in a bit more of a sympathetic light.....

I listened to the Road Trippin' podcast several times this year, and I'm pretty sure Jefferson is just being nice to Kyrie by giving him the most sympathetic take, that's the way he operated in general on that podcast.

This might be the story Kyrie is telling others, or even himself, but it doesn't make sense.

The uncertainty argument doesn't make a lot of sense because Kyrie has nothing to worry about if James leaves next summer. He knows for a fact LeBron is playing this year and that if he stays, they've got a great chance to be in the finals for the 4th straight year. If James leaves next summer, Kyrie knows for certain he just needs to tell Cleveland he won't extend, and they'll be forced to trade him next summer because he has only one more guaranteed year. He knows for sure he's not going to get stuck in Cleveland with a weak team.

In fact, Kyrie asking for a trade now actually increases the uncertainty. Cleveland might trade him now, but they might have to wait to get the best deal because the draft and free agency is over, so he's actually made the situation much more uncertain than it already was. Now, maybe he's as big an idiot as his flat-earth comments suggest, and he just didn't realize this, but I don't think so. So I'm pretty sure the uncertainty thing is just the nicest way of blaming somebody else, but that it's not the real reason. I think he must just not like LeBron personally (which could be somewhat understandable, who knows?) and/or he really does want to be the man on another team (which is egotistical and dumb, in my opinion).

I think he just wants more credit, Lebron is going to vacuum up his legacy no matter how well he plays. He could come to Minnesota and win a title as the 3rd best player/option and he would get more credit than he did for the Cleveland title.

[BloopOracle]

https://twitter.com/APkrawczynski/status/890227148811898881

shit is getting serious...

[SameOldNudityDrew]

https://twitter.com/APkrawczynski/status/890227148811898881

shit is getting serious...

IF this happens, we'll have a really weirdly constructed roster until at least December 15, and then we'll absolutely need to trade Teague for a very good defensive wing, a guy like Danny Green (Spurs need a PG), Patrick Beverley (PG situation is fluid with LAC), or Jonathan Simmons (Teague would be an upgrade at the point in Orlando). Other guys I'd love but who wouldn't need Teague would be Marcus Smart (that wouldn't happen because they have IT, but he's the type of guy we should target), LRMAM (again, Houston already has CP3 and Harden, so that's not happening), and I'd love to get Covington, but Philly has Fultz and Simmons so they don't need Teague).

Ugh, if we'd have grabbed a versatile defender like Bell or OG in the draft, we'd have had more flexibility to deal with a situation like this.

And no matter what, we should be contacting Tony Allen's agent by now if we haven't already!

Edit: Regarding the possibility of looking to trade Teague to San Antonio for Danny Green (again, assuming we trade for Irving), the Spurs do have Patty Mills, so they don't NEED a PG, but Teague would be an upgrade at a position where they can no longer count on Tony Parker and his quickness.

[Monster]

https://twitter.com/APkrawczynski/status/890227148811898881

shit is getting serious...

IF this happens, we'll have a really weirdly constructed roster until at least December 15, and then we'll absolutely need to trade Teague for a very good defensive wing, a guy like Danny Green (Spurs need a PG), Patrick Beverley (PG situation is fluid with LAC), or Jonathan Simmons (Teague would be an upgrade at the point in Orlando). Other guys I'd love but who wouldn't need Teague would be Marcus Smart (that wouldn't happen because they have IT, but he's the type of guy we should target), LRMAM (again, Houston already has CP3 and Harden, so that's not happening), and I'd love to get Covington, but Philly has Fultz and Simmons so they don't need Teague).

Ugh, if we'd have grabbed a versatile defender like Bell or OG in the draft, we'd have had more flexibility to deal with a situation like this.

And no matter what, we should be contacting Tony Allen's agent by now if we haven't already!

Edit: Regarding the possibility of looking to trade Teague to San Antonio for Danny Green (again, assuming we trade for Irving), the Spurs do have Patty Mills, so they don't NEED a PG, but Teague would be an upgrade at a position where they can no longer count on Tony Parker and his quickness.

I'll point out that Patty Mills is actually younger than Teague.

Every report is that the Cavs phone lines are melting with people calling in. Are any of these teams offering up legit offers or are they mostly low balling? Maybe the Wolves are gauging interest in every other player they can move including Dieng to get assets to get Kyrie. Idk but I wouldn't get too worked up about the Wolves being serious about adding him. The guy is a good player and available. They should be calling. What if the Cavs wuss out and dump him for a lesser deal like other teams have done recently. Make an offer you never know what could happen.

[Porckchop]

Irving coming here would take him from being the second option to possibly third. Which is the opposite of what it sounds like he wants. So trading one third option for a likely another that's 4 years younger doesn't make sense to me.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Irving coming here would take him from being the second option to possibly third. Which is the opposite of what it sounds like he wants. So trading one third option for a likely another that's 4 years younger doesn't make sense to me.

He'd be the first option here. He's the PG. He controls where the ball goes. Towns and Butler are great. They don't run the offense on a Kyrie team. And Kyrie's one of the best offensive players in the league which is a level above Towns and Butler.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I listened to our good buddy Jon K's podcast with Souhan. He boiled down the desire of Irving to leave to two primary reasons:

1) Yes, playing in LeBron's shadow, but in a way that goes beyond the court and extends to the media coverage of the team as well (i.e. "how is it like to play with LeBron?", "will you look back and appreciate playing with potentially the greatest player of all time?", etc., with this happening over and over again). You can see how it can be a bit tiring. Butler and KAT are certainly great players, but no way do they even touch LeBron in terms of the shadow he casts.

2) The churn within Cleveland's front office and LeBron's out clause. It just doesn't seem like a very stable franchise.

So may be this idea of Irving wanting to be the top dog and run his own show is a little overblown. I'm certainly not sure why San Antonio would be on his list of teams if it was all about his ego and being THE guy. That team is all about putting ego aside and quietly churning out 50+ wins decade after decade.

All of that being said.....it would be really hard for even me to part with Wiggins and I can't believe Cleveland could make a deal work with Minnesota without Wiggins being the centerpiece.

[Monster]

I listened to our good buddy Jon K's podcast with Souhan. He boiled down the desire of Irving to leave to two primary reasons:

1) Yes, playing in LeBron's shadow, but in a way that goes beyond the court and extends to the media coverage of the team as well (i.e. "how is it like to play with LeBron?", "will you look back and appreciate playing with potentially the greatest player of all time?", etc., with this happening over and over again). You can see how it can be a bit tiring. Butler and KAT are certainly great players, but no way do they even touch LeBron in terms of the shadow he casts.

2) The churn within Cleveland's front office and LeBron's out clause. It just doesn't seem like a very stable franchise.

So may be this idea of Irving wanting to be the top dog and run his own show is a little overblown. I'm certainly not sure why San Antonio would be on his list of teams if it was all about his ego and being THE guy. That team is all about putting ego aside and quietly churning out 50+ wins decade after decade.

All of that being said.....it would be really hard for even me to part with Wiggins and I can't believe Cleveland could make a deal work with Minnesota without Wiggins being the centerpiece.

Good breakdown Q. All that makes sense and I think it's a piece to the puzzle BUT why get out now? Why not wait another year with a trip to the finals? Ok maybe it's the way Gilbert went about things the last few weeks that put Irving over the edge. That makes some sense. If even 25% of why Irving wanted out now was Dan Gilbert could you blame him? Thibs knows Irving to some extent with him in team USA. Thibs seems to like and target guys that want to win. I don't think he is going to go for a guy that's looking to flake out. There are some legit concerns there but Kyrie obviously is competitive I'm sure Thibs has an appreciation there. There is a lot to this story and I think Jon has a lot of good stuff to say and Q broke it down well.

Jon also talked about the possibility of this trade. He said the Wolves are absolutely exploring acquiring Irving. Here are some additional points he made

1. Thibs seems to have a line in the sand and is not going to cross that. He brought up the possible CJ Miles deal where he would have had to give up a first rounder for a clear upgrade and a vet that would absolutely fit well and help now. He wouldn't give up the pick. Jon says Thibs could be contacting the Cavs with offers to get Kyrie that don't include Wiggins. The Cavs will be asking for him but if Thibs says Wiggins is off limits that is the way it's going to be. He said he can't say right now if Wiggins could/would be made available for Kyrie.

2. Jon said nearly every NBA contact he talked to said they would do a Wiggins for Kyrie deal. He said he feels that Thibs thinks the world of Wiggins and think he values him highly.

3. There are a lot of trade talks and most never get done. He said maybe there was a 10-25% chance of it happening.

There was probably a bit more there but that's what I remember at this point.

[Crazysauce]

Just a heads up on why kyrie really wants to leave....

Lebron after winning the championship was trying to convince the front office to deal irving for chris paul. Irving obviously felt slighted. Im sure that in addition to the special treatment lebron gets and how hes involved in most of the decisions he just wants out. I got to admit, i would be pissed also if i was o e of the main reasons for winning a championship and then my teammate wants me off the team so he can play with his buddy. Kind of a stab in the back.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Just a heads up on why kyrie really wants to leave....

Lebron after winning the championship was trying to convince the front office to deal irving for chris paul. Irving obviously felt slighted. Im sure that in addition to the special treatment lebron gets and how hes involved in most of the decisions he just wants out. I got to admit, i would be pissed also if i was o e of the main reasons for winning a championship and then my teammate wants me off the team so he can play with his buddy. Kind of a stab in the back.

Why not trade Irving for Paul a month ago?

Seems like a win-win instead of this mess.

Oh, that's right... no GM. Dan Gilbert is an idiot.