Windhorst: Towns and Butler pushing for Irving trade

[KiwiMatt]

This trade hinges on how well IT bounces back from his hip injury. Isn't it a similar injury that derailed Jonny Flynn's career? For a small point guard who relies on quickness and speed this could be devastating. Getting the Brooklyn pick is a nice insurance chip though.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I think Cleveland got better this year and gave themselves a rebuilding chip when Lebron leaves to start right away if they want before even having to tank a season. Crowder is light years better than RJ at this point in their careers. IT in theory isn't that far behind Kyrie, but we'll see with his injuries. I think Boston got worse this year, but better long-term. They traded away 2 of their 3 best perimeter defenders in Bradley and Crowder and Irving is just as bad defensively as IT. Smart is the only guy left who can cover up for Kyrie. IT was gonna want way too much money next summer. They can move forward with Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum and Horford. They do really need some frontcourt help and this deal kills their ability to land a Cousins or AD from NO because their best trade chip is gone, but I think overall they are built to take over the conference when Lebron leaves. I think both teams got good value out of the deal, but I think Cleveland got the better deal overall. An All-Star, rotation role player and a top 5 pick for an All-Star favors the former more than the latter.

[TAFKASP]

Boston reporter: "Hello, I'm from the Globe."

Kyrie: "Excuse me?"

This made me chuckle!

[Lipoli390]

This trade hinges on how well IT bounces back from his hip injury. Isn't it a similar injury that derailed Jonny Flynn's career? For a small point guard who relies on quickness and speed this could be devastating. Getting the Brooklyn pick is a nice insurance chip though.

Yes, I believe it's the same injury. I think that injury was a key factor in Boston's decision to do the deal. We'll see how it turns out. I'm a big Thomas fan so I'll be pulling for him to be fully recovered. But it would really suck for the Cavs if Thomas isn't 100% or, even worse, can't play at all. If Thomas is 100% healthy, then the Cavs have really helped themselves in the depth department. A healthy Thomas prevents a major fall-off at the PG position. In the meantime, the Cavs will have added a terrific rotation wing in Crowder, a decent backup big from Europe and a very solid backup PG in Derrick Rose. Add the New Jersey pick from a longer term perspective and the Cavs did very well in this deal. I'm less sure about the Celtics, but I still like the deal for them as well.

[worldK]

Boston wins the trade for me. They got the best player who is only 25. Thomas is very good and I know a lot here are in love with crowder and the nets pick is great value. But Irving is the best player, a top 10 player in the league and he fits in very nicely with hayward and horford. Boston also has 2 more young up and coming prospects in brown and tatum. They have many more 1st round draft picks to come. They need to shore up their frontcourt but an Irving/hayward/horford trio is legit.

[Monster]

Boston reporter: "Hello, I'm from the Globe."

Kyrie: "Excuse me?"

This made me chuckle!

Me too! It was great to send my wife a sports related tweet and she got a big laugh. That's quite the rare occurance. Lol

[Monster]

This trade hinges on how well IT bounces back from his hip injury. Isn't it a similar injury that derailed Jonny Flynn's career? For a small point guard who relies on quickness and speed this could be devastating. Getting the Brooklyn pick is a nice insurance chip though.

Yes, I believe it's the same injury. I think that injury was a key factor in Boston's decision to do the deal. We'll see how it turns out. I'm a big Thomas fan so I'll be pulling for him to be fully recovered. But it would really suck for the Cavs if Thomas isn't 100% or, even worse, can't play at all. If Thomas is 100% healthy, then the Cavs have really helped themselves in the depth department. A healthy Thomas prevents a major fall-off at the PG position. In the meantime, the Cavs will have added a terrific rotation wing in Crowder, a decent backup big from Europe and a very solid backup PG in Derrick Rose. Add the New Jersey pick from a longer term perspective and the Cavs did very well in this deal. I'm less sure about the Celtics, but I still like the deal for them as well.

The hip is the issue but I do not believe it's the same injury. What I heard very recently is IT's issue is a bone spur that bothers him. Flynn had a torn Labrum in his hip and had surgery. Below is a link to an interesting 2013 grantland article about Flynn. I copied the stuff about his injury below. Supposedly a couple years later he was healthy but never really did much and seems to be out of basketball now.

http://grantland.com/features/the-struggles-former-lottery-pick-jonny-flynn/

That summer, Flynn traveled to The Steadman Clinic in Vail, Colorado, where Dr. Marc Philippon performed surgery on a tear of the labrum in his left hip, shaving some of the hip bone. "It's a hip injury that is darn close to what Bo Jackson had," Waters said. "The hip is not something God created that is going to be easily fixed."

Jake Presutti, a teammate at Syracuse, visited Flynn while he was in Vail. The two purchased an Xbox, playing NBA2K to pass the time. But Flynn was largely immobile and in constant pain. "He was helpless," Presutti said. "With the hip, he just couldn't do much. I just knew it was going to be a long road." Johnson visited soon after. The rehabilitation in Vail continued smoothly, Johnson said. It was not until Flynn returned to Minnesota that the trouble really started. "It was horrible," Johnson said. "It was the absolute worst when he got back to letting the Timberwolves handle it. Everything was just wrong. And I'm not sure why. Even to this day, I still don't understand why."

Doctors cleared Flynn to play in December, despite the coaching staff's reluctance. "We couldn't think of a basketball player who had ever torn his hip labrum," Wohl said.1 "So we didn't have anything to go on. You don't even have anything to compare it to." Flynn missed the first 24 games of the season. "He almost had a hip-hop in his step," Wohl said. This wasn't the same Jonny Flynn.

"In my opinion, he came back way too soon," Rambis said. "I could see that he wasn't ready to explode off that leg. He hadn't fully recovered from it. Management was pushing him to come back, to start playing. I didn't think he was ready to play. The surgeon felt that he had recovered from the surgery and was ready to play, but just watching him out there, he wasn't able to do the things that he was doing prior to the surgery. I didn't think he was ready to play, and as a result, he didn't play anywhere near his level that he ended his first season with. He lost a lot of confidence. Fans were booing him. We weren't playing well as a team."

[MikkeMan]

Well, it's about time Boston cashed in some of their chips. I felt they could have easily put a great package together to land Butler or George, both of whom I think are better than Hayward, but they sat on their hands.

This is a good deal for both sides. Cleveland's return is a perfect balance between established vets that can keep them in contention this year and other assets that help them prepare for a Lebron-less future.

I still think the Celtics might struggle against size.....

They might still struggle against size and in defensive rebounding but they signed Baynes whom will give them more size from bench than anyone from last year roster had. Morris has been playing mostly small forward for Detroit, so when he is moved back to power forward position, I expect that his rebounding will be much closer to Amir Johnson's level than it was last couple of years. They also brought rookie Yabusele whom has pretty good size for PF position but probably doesn't play much next year.

I think that Boston will have start five of Irving, Hayward, Brown, Morris and Horford. That starting five will be really good in perimeter defense. They can switch almost every screen without creating bad mismatch. Irving is not good defensively especially in regular season, but he is still much better than Thomas was. His backups Smart and Rozier are both great defensively, so their overall defense in PG position is still above average.

Their starting five will be also quite a nightmare for opponents offensively since every single player in starting five can hit three pointers. Both Hayward and Irving are great three point shooters and Horford, Morris and Brown are about league average.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yeah, there is a lot to like about Boston for sure and it appears they might be ready to overtake Cleveland, especially if IT is damaged goods. But they have lost some toughness and strength in Jae Crowder and perimeter defense in Avery Bradley. Horford isn't getting any younger either, although I love him as a player.

This trade certainly spices up the Eastern Conference a bit, albeit between the two teams that were favorites to begin with. It would have been nice if one of the other Eastern Conference playoff teams actually did something this summer. The others just sat on their hands. Meanwhile, in the West......

[AbeVigodaLive]

Feel like this is just the latest example of a team underestimating Isaiah Thomas. It just keeps continuing... and it's pretty remarkable really:

2011: Picked LAST in the draft (#60)... right after Ater Majok and Adam Hanga. Who? Ater Majok! The guy was drafted before IT even though he was a 23 year old who made only 25 baskets in his entire college career. Wait... what?

2012: Thomas somehow wins the starting job as a rookie. Averages 12 ppg and 4 apg on 45% fg. Still doesn't make 1st All Rookie... despite there being 7 guys who made it that year, including Iman Shumpert with worse stats across the board.

The Kings try to trade him... or sign his replacement... for three straight seasons. Meanwhile, Thomas outperforms all other guards on the team.

2014: Averages 20/6 for Sacramento. WOW! That's great value from the 60th pick. So what do the Kings do? They trade him for Alex Oriakhi. The guy still has never played in an NBA game. But he did start ahead of Ater Majok at Connecticut... so there's that.

Right before the trade, Thomas signed a 4 year, $27M contract... a great contract for a starting PG... but the Kings think Darren Collison is better.

2015: Thomas goes to Phoenix, as a bench player. Then he was traded again after only 46 games. Some of the other BIG names in the trade included 47 year old T. Prince, Marcus Thornton, Gigi Datome and Jonas Jerekbo.

2017: Thomas has one of the top 10 most efficient high-volume scoring seasons... in NBA history. Averages 29 ppg. He is an MVP candidate. He leads the team to a #1 seed and ECF appearance. His sister dies right before the playoffs. He gets injured, keeps playing for awhile. Takes several hits, knocks out teeth... but remains largely durable, only missing 6 games in two seasons prior to the hip injury.

Becomes Boston's most celebrated and popular player. Beloved by the fans. All while taking a PAYCUT... remember that 4 year/$27M deal? It goes down every season. Meanwhile, several other NBA players are making $25M+ per season. Thus far, Thomas has made less than $23M... for his entire 6-year career.

All this leads to... him being traded as a piece part in a trade for Kyrie Irving.

____________________________

Summary:

Thomas has never gotten his NBA payday. And every team he's played for has tried to trade him early and often... despite him exceeding expectations... wildly exceeding expectations.

In a sports world where many complain that athletes are coddled or make too much money or get paid before they pay their dues... Thomas is the antithesis to that. Here's a guy who simply keeps outperforming expectations... without the big payday or respect or rewards or loyalty of dozens upon dozens of other players.

Kudos for Isaiah Thomas for continuing to plug away. Hopefully, he gets to put roots down somewhere with a team who wants to keep him... and pay him. The guy has put in the work. But most don't see it that way. Even this morning, I heard Ben Golliver (analyst nerd from SI) rip into Thomas for wanting to get paid and into his co-host Andrew Sharp for suggesting Thomas' past helps him seek a big payday moving forward.

It begs the question: What team wouldn't want a player who keeps getting better, with a chip on his shoulder, who continuously exceeds expectations? Isn't that what we want from pro athletes?