Windhorst: Towns and Butler pushing for Irving trade

[Lipoli390]

If Wiggins is truly off limits sign him to the max extension and be done with the drama. Don't say a guy is off limits and then drag out contract negotiations while a top 15 player is available.

I totally agree. If you don't think Wiggins is worth it, then trade him now. If you think he's a cornerstone piece, then lock him up long term. It's that simple.

I never understand why the negotiations on some of these contracts take so long but they typically do and therefore I don't think there is anything to read into it when it comes to Wiggins extension. The deadline is what October 16? There is plenty of time to get it done.

There has to be some reason for the delay beyond Glen Taylor's general observation that these things often take time. Glen has publicly stated that he intends to give Wiggins the 5-year max and Wiggins has said publicly that's what he expects. Wiggins has always said he wants to be here and he'd be a complete fool to give up all the extra money and security as well as the chance to play on a really good team by declining to accept the 5-year max from the Wolves. That means there's nothing to negotiate.

So think about it for a moment. Wiggins has absolutly no incentive to wait. There can be no doubt that Andrew would do the deal today if offered. That means the source of the delay has to be the Wolves. And there has to be a rationale explanation for the Wolves decision to delay. In my view it has to be one of two things. One possibility is that the Wolves are going to wait as long as they can to protect the franchise from the risk of Wiggins suffering a catastrophic injury before or early in training camp. The other, and I think more plausible explanation, is that the Wolves are holding off because Wiggins is being discussed as part of a possible trade for Kyrie. I'm not sure, but I don't think the Wolves could trade Wiggins to Cleveland before the season after signing him to the max 5-year extension.

[Lipoli390]

I'll add that it's interesting that Glen would gush so much about Wiggins at the very time Wiggins as potentially being offered for Kyrie. Is just Glen the village idiot waxing on as he sometimes does? Or is this a strategic move on Glen's part to signal the Cavs that they're unlikely to get Wiggins? But what's the point of that, since Thibs can just tell Koby and Dan privately that Wiggins isn't available? One answer is that the Cavs expect more than Wiggins and Glen's comments were a way of sending a clear signal that the Cavs are lucky to get Wiggins and that the Wolves owner will likely pull the plug on any deal that includes more significant assets like a future 1st or Gorgui. Who knows.

I'm convinced the Wolves have offered Wiggins, Tyus and Cole and are waiting for the Cavs' decision. Based on Thibs' short track record as PBO, I'd suspect he's saying no to adding a future 1st and that he'll stick to his guns on that. As for Glen, I think he's just doing his thing.

My prediction? I think the Cavs will eventually say yes to the Wolves unless the Suns agree to include Josh Jackson along with Bledsoe.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but one option is to simply keep Teague if we trade Wig for Irving. No harm in having two starter-quality PGs, although I'd bring Teague off the bench. Sign Tony Allen for token starter minutes and Mike Dunleavy to backup Butler, and voila!, there is your wing depth.

[Monster]

I'll add that it's interesting that Glen would gush so much about Wiggins at the very time Wiggins as potentially being offered for Kyrie. Is just Glen the village idiot waxing on as he sometimes does? Or is this a strategic move on Glen's part to signal the Cavs that they're unlikely to get Wiggins? But what's the point of that, since Thibs can just tell Koby and Dan privately that Wiggins isn't available? One answer is that the Cavs expect more than Wiggins and Glen's comments were a way of sending a clear signal that the Cavs are lucky to get Wiggins and that the Wolves owner will likely pull the plug on any deal that includes more significant assets like a future 1st or Gorgui. Who knows.

I'm convinced the Wolves have offered Wiggins, Tyus and Cole and are waiting for the Cavs' decision. Based on Thibs' short track record as PBO, I'd suspect he's saying no to adding a future 1st and that he'll stick to his guns on that. As for Glen, I think he's just doing his thing.

My prediction? I think the Cavs will eventually say yes to the Wolves unless the Suns agree to include Josh Jackson along with Bledsoe.

Is Glen being strategic or his usual seemingly too honest self? Idk your theory is worth considering.

I tend to think these reports about teams making formal offers are overblown. The Heat have come out and said they never made an offer. I can't figure out why they would even say that if they had made an offer.

As for why the Wiggins extension isn't done already like I said before for some reason or another these things tend to drag out. Most of the time I don't really get why but there has to be reasons and this happens even without trade rumors swirling. A couple other possibilities.

1. The Wolves are working on FA and building their roster still. The extension probably isn't top priority. They have 3-4 roster spots to fill. I'm sure they could find time to deal with a Wiggins extension but they may not want to worry about that.

2. Could they be trying to get him to take less? It's unlikely wiggins will take less but it's not completely unreasonable. The Dunc'd On guys think the Wolves should try to squeeze him because of you look at teams that have money next year...the list isn't too long and he will he restricted and now the Nets are a team that may not have money to throw as someone now. They could be saying hey we are willing to give you 5 years at just a little less than the max and it will help make this a better team because we can put more pieces around you etc blah blah. I doubt it will work but they may try. I know Wiggins was quoted as "nothing less" but was that his contract demand or how he values himself? Wiggins is a pretty confident guy and I wonder if his response was more about his value as a player than him saying he absolutely won't take less than the max. Again I don't think he will take any less but I would at least try and sell it.

3. This team doesn't tend to do fanfare or when they do (Butler) it seems pretty calaculated. They may have a certain time they would like to have this extension finished in the future and announce it.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I'll add that it's interesting that Glen would gush so much about Wiggins at the very time Wiggins as potentially being offered for Kyrie. Is just Glen the village idiot waxing on as he sometimes does? Or is this a strategic move on Glen's part to signal the Cavs that they're unlikely to get Wiggins? But what's the point of that, since Thibs can just tell Koby and Dan privately that Wiggins isn't available? One answer is that the Cavs expect more than Wiggins and Glen's comments were a way of sending a clear signal that the Cavs are lucky to get Wiggins and that the Wolves owner will likely pull the plug on any deal that includes more significant assets like a future 1st or Gorgui. Who knows.

I'm convinced the Wolves have offered Wiggins, Tyus and Cole and are waiting for the Cavs' decision. Based on Thibs' short track record as PBO, I'd suspect he's saying no to adding a future 1st and that he'll stick to his guns on that. As for Glen, I think he's just doing his thing.

My prediction? I think the Cavs will eventually say yes to the Wolves unless the Suns agree to include Josh Jackson along with Bledsoe.

Is Glen being strategic or his usual seemingly too honest self? Idk your theory is worth considering.

I tend to think these reports about teams making formal offers are overblown. The Heat have come out and said they never made an offer. I can't figure out why they would even say that if they had made an offer.

As for why the Wiggins extension isn't done already like I said before for some reason or another these things tend to drag out. Most of the time I don't really get why but there has to be reasons and this happens even without trade rumors swirling. A couple other possibilities.

1. The Wolves are working on FA and building their roster still. The extension probably isn't top priority. They have 3-4 roster spots to fill. I'm sure they could find time to deal with a Wiggins extension but they may not want to worry about that.

2. Could they be trying to get him to take less? It's unlikely wiggins will take less but it's not completely unreasonable. The Dunc'd On guys think the Wolves should try to squeeze him because of you look at teams that have money next year...the list isn't too long and he will he restricted and now the Nets are a team that may not have money to throw as someone now. They could be saying hey we are willing to give you 5 years at just a little less than the max and it will help make this a better team because we can put more pieces around you etc blah blah. I doubt it will work but they may try. I know Wiggins was quoted as "nothing less" but was that his contract demand or how he values himself? Wiggins is a pretty confident guy and I wonder if his response was more about his value as a player than him saying he absolutely won't take less than the max. Again I don't think he will take any less but I would at least try and sell it.

3. This team doesn't tend to do fanfare or when they do (Butler) it seems pretty calaculated. They may have a certain time they would like to have this extension finished in the future and announce it.

The part in bold is crucial I think, not just regarding Wiggins, but all of free agency next year.

Not only will few teams have a lot of cap space next year, but there are also a ton of guys hitting the market next year, including the guys who all signed 1 year deals this summer, I guess thinking the money would somehow be back next summer.

Not a lot of cap space + a lot of talent = some teams will get some great deals on good players next year.

Last summer's huge cap jump (from 70 to 94) was insane compared to the usual 5 million increase or so, and it seems like this summer and next are the adjustment period. In this environment, getting as many max players as you can starts to make a little less sense (and the max is such a huge percentage, IMO) if you can get a couple more guys whose talent level might be just below the max guys but who have to accept much less money because the cap space is basically dried up. I'm not saying WE should do that, just that it seems like there's an opportunity there for a smart team that can't get a legit max guy to still put together a pretty good team.

[mjs34]

My guess is that Wiggins wants a player option to opt out early. Never hurts to ask, but I wouldn't give it.

Lip, when did Gorgui become an asset????????

[Lipoli390]

My guess is that Wiggins wants a player option to opt out early. Never hurts to ask, but I wouldn't give it.

Lip, when did Gorgui become an asset????????

I think it was about 2:45 p.m on July 23, 2017. Or maybe it was 2:47. Or maybe it was October 18, 2016 at 1:53 p.m. Are you really trying to make a point? Oh, I get it, Gorgui is a liability, not an asset. Silly me. No other team would want him. And that's sad because he's such a drag on the team, yet we'll never be able to get rid of the slug. Lol.

[mjs34]

Getting a little testy lip?

I'm just wondering what team would give Gorgui the contract he has now. I have no problem with gorguis play. Just the contract Thib's gave him last year.

[Monster]

My guess is that Wiggins wants a player option to opt out early. Never hurts to ask, but I wouldn't give it.

Lip, when did Gorgui become an asset????????

SJM I think you nailed it here about a significant factor that could be the back and forth of the negotiations on the Wiggins extension. I hadn't thought about a player option being a bargaining chip but it's certainly something a player and agent would look for and it makes complete sense to do so. 5-6 is a ton of time to be locked in for today's NBA.

[worldK]

My guess is that Wiggins wants a player option to opt out early. Never hurts to ask, but I wouldn't give it.

Lip, when did Gorgui become an asset????????

SJM I think you nailed it here about a significant factor that could be the back and forth of the negotiations on the Wiggins extension. I hadn't thought about a player option being a bargaining chip but it's certainly something a player and agent would look for and it makes complete sense to do so. 5-6 is a ton of time to be locked in for today's NBA.

My take on this has always been:

A. If the player and the team are trully both commited to one another, then they will agree on a 5 year max contract with no opt out close. Simple as that.

B. If the team needs to give reassurance and guarantee, then throw in a no trade clause or a trade kicker in the 5year max deal.

C. If the player's priority is the most money and is chasing rings and wanting to form superteams with other players, then they will likely push for an opt out after 2-3years.

Wiggins strike me as a guy that is loyal and very confident in his own ability that he isnt craving to be part of a superteam. He is likely going for the full 5year no opt out max. I can see the holdup being him wanting a no trade clause/trade kicker. Its just a gut feel and add that he is stil very young and hus prime is yet to come. I see that as the holdup.