TRKO wrote:Doing the deal gives you a two year window to win it all. Is it enough though? Is Towns, Butler, and Irving better than Love, James, and Irving? The first year of the run there will be a hole at SG. Maybe you can flip Teague for a good SG, or maybe he and Irving can coexist in the same backcourt. To me if you do the trade you aren't going to beat Golden State and you may not improve the team overall. Yes Irving is better than Wiggins, but a Towns, Gibson, Butler, Wiggins, Teague lineup is better than a Towns, Gibson, Butler, ?, Irving lineup. I wouldn't pull the trigger.
Why do we have to win the title in 2 years? Why would our window not be longer with Kyrie only being 25, Towns 22 and Butler 28? That would seem to have at least a 4-5 year window before Butler starts to decline.
TRKO wrote:Doing the deal gives you a two year window to win it all. Is it enough though? Is Towns, Butler, and Irving better than Love, James, and Irving? The first year of the run there will be a hole at SG. Maybe you can flip Teague for a good SG, or maybe he and Irving can coexist in the same backcourt. To me if you do the trade you aren't going to beat Golden State and you may not improve the team overall. Yes Irving is better than Wiggins, but a Towns, Gibson, Butler, Wiggins, Teague lineup is better than a Towns, Gibson, Butler, ?, Irving lineup. I wouldn't pull the trigger.
Why do we have to win the title in 2 years? Why would our window not be longer with Kyrie only being 25, Towns 22 and Butler 28? That would seem to have at least a 4-5 year window before Butler starts to decline.
Kyrie just asked to leave one of the best situations in basketball. What gives you so much confidence that he won't want out of here in 2 years?
TRKO wrote:Doing the deal gives you a two year window to win it all. Is it enough though? Is Towns, Butler, and Irving better than Love, James, and Irving? The first year of the run there will be a hole at SG. Maybe you can flip Teague for a good SG, or maybe he and Irving can coexist in the same backcourt. To me if you do the trade you aren't going to beat Golden State and you may not improve the team overall. Yes Irving is better than Wiggins, but a Towns, Gibson, Butler, Wiggins, Teague lineup is better than a Towns, Gibson, Butler, ?, Irving lineup. I wouldn't pull the trigger.
Why do we have to win the title in 2 years? Why would our window not be longer with Kyrie only being 25, Towns 22 and Butler 28? That would seem to have at least a 4-5 year window before Butler starts to decline.
Kyrie just asked to leave one of the best situations in basketball. What gives you so much confidence that he won't want out of here in 2 years?
This. Nothing is certain anymore in the NBA. A key player on a championship contender wants out because he wants a bigger role. He and Butler can walk after 2 years. So if you can keep guys happy in their roles, then yes the window is massive. If you can't, and you will have 3 number one type guys, then it could be a breakup after 2 years. The first year will also be an odd one because of how the roster is constructed.
TRKO wrote:Doing the deal gives you a two year window to win it all. Is it enough though? Is Towns, Butler, and Irving better than Love, James, and Irving? The first year of the run there will be a hole at SG. Maybe you can flip Teague for a good SG, or maybe he and Irving can coexist in the same backcourt. To me if you do the trade you aren't going to beat Golden State and you may not improve the team overall. Yes Irving is better than Wiggins, but a Towns, Gibson, Butler, Wiggins, Teague lineup is better than a Towns, Gibson, Butler, ?, Irving lineup. I wouldn't pull the trigger.
Why do we have to win the title in 2 years? Why would our window not be longer with Kyrie only being 25, Towns 22 and Butler 28? That would seem to have at least a 4-5 year window before Butler starts to decline.
Kyrie just asked to leave one of the best situations in basketball. What gives you so much confidence that he won't want out of here in 2 years?
This. Nothing is certain anymore in the NBA. A key player on a championship contender wants out because he wants a bigger role. He and Butler can walk after 2 years. So if you can keep guys happy in their roles, then yes the window is massive. If you can't, and you will have 3 number one type guys, then it could be a breakup after 2 years. The first year will also be an odd one because of how the roster is constructed.
Let's be honest there are no guarantees no matter what path we take. Wiggins could sign his deal and demand out for some reason. I don't think that happens but you get my point. There is merit for going all in although I wouldn't move Wiggins for Kyrie.
Like Dan B has said a few times on his show I'm not sure there is a bad option for the Wolves. Adding Kyrie makes a ton of sense. I'm not in favor of it but I'm not jumping off a ledge if it happens either.
Some people suggest Wiggins value could go down. Sure That's possible. I think he would really have to suck to lose that much value say a year from now. He would still be only 23 and so far his Rookie year is the only year he hasn't scored 20ppg or more and if he didn't this year it's because 2 other guys likely scored 20+ppg in Butler and Towns. He would be locked into a 5 year deal which even if there was some question about him being worth it some teams would be very happy to add a player like that. Another option is he increases his value by becoming an even better player either for the Wolves or as a terrific trade piece. There are likely going to be even more top level talents available in the coming years. The Wolves could be in a position to get one of those guys or maybe even Irving if he isn't moved. Irving is available but the price may not be a discount. Some other players might be more discounted. Some may not even cost Wiggins.
Some of the talk about getting guys to come here cheap is...sorta true but a bit optimistic. Look at some of the guys that teams like the Spurs GS and even the Cavs paid good to decent money. Jonathon Simmons left for not a ton of money. Sure some guys didn't get a lot of money but some guys did. It's probably more of a bit of a mixed bag.
If you believe the reports that the Wolves made a formal offer, then there's not question the offer includes Wiggins. Keep in mind that to match salaries, the Wolves would have to give up other players as well. Would it just be Cole? Or would it be Gorgui? I'm guessing it's Wiggins, Tyus Jones and Cole Aldrich.
I'm just hoping the Cavs opt for another offer to save Thibs and Layden from themselves. Thibs is trying to put his old band back together. He got Butler and Taj. No doubt he sees Kyrie as the recreation of Derrick Rose - a ball-dominant, scoring all-star PG. I guess Teague would be Kyrie's backcourt mate. Not much defense or size there. We'd have no backup PG and our only backup wing would be Crawford. I guess we might trade Teague in late December. Not much stability there.
The more I reflect on this the more I can't believe Thibs has actually made an offer.
Id be happy with any route. I don't like the idea of trading a player on an upward trajectory. Despite the nitpicking about the magintude as scale of his improvements Wiggins has improved some aspect of his game each season. He has already noted that he has been focusing on rebounding and three point shooting. Would be tough to see him take another step forward somewhere else.
As for Kyrie, I don't know if the best chance of winning is analogous to the best place for employment. It is very possible to me that Lebron creates a toxic work environment with his demeanor. I can't fault a player to want to get away from him from what I see on the surface. There are lots of places Kyrie can go and really help a team. If that is here I'd welcome him with open arms even though I like Wiggins a lot. Now if we can get Kyrie and keep Wiggins I may have a heart attack.
TRKO wrote:Doing the deal gives you a two year window to win it all. Is it enough though? Is Towns, Butler, and Irving better than Love, James, and Irving? The first year of the run there will be a hole at SG. Maybe you can flip Teague for a good SG, or maybe he and Irving can coexist in the same backcourt. To me if you do the trade you aren't going to beat Golden State and you may not improve the team overall. Yes Irving is better than Wiggins, but a Towns, Gibson, Butler, Wiggins, Teague lineup is better than a Towns, Gibson, Butler, ?, Irving lineup. I wouldn't pull the trigger.
Why do we have to win the title in 2 years? Why would our window not be longer with Kyrie only being 25, Towns 22 and Butler 28? That would seem to have at least a 4-5 year window before Butler starts to decline.
Kyrie just asked to leave one of the best situations in basketball. What gives you so much confidence that he won't want out of here in 2 years?
1. Kyrie already has a title so he doesn't need to chase titles like some of these other guys.
2. He and Butler were best buddies on Team USA.
3. He's played in Cleveland his whole career and still has the second best selling shoes so the market doesn't matter to him (also backed up by his trade list including us and SA).
Could he leave? Sure. I just doubt a team that will have potentially 3 top 15 players will break up and go elsewhere because I don't view any other teams as being able to add one of them to two other top 15 players. I think we'd be the second best team in the conference in 18/19 based on talent and could be the second best team in the league depending on how other talent like Lebron moves next summer.
Interesting that Rachel Nichols tweeted a max extension for Wiggins would kill the deal for Kyrie. So basically if he gets extended he stays or else he's likely to go.
Im torn on the possible wiggins for kyrie swap. (Lets be realistic, an offer from us will definitely include wiggins or it will be seen as a joke)
Im one of wiggins biggest supporter here and i still believe he will be a legit max level caliber star in the league. But then its kyrie irving. A superstar and a top 10 player in the league who is only 25!. Its a no brainer deal if it can be made. It just sucks to see the possibility of your favorite player getting traded even if you know its the right move.
1 thing is for sure though, the wolves are looking to go all in and becoming legit challengers and threats.
Wings are the premium in the NBA. They are the ticket to winning in the playoffs. We have one superstar and one potential superstar in our hand, and a very good pg already. If we trade for Irving and sign some filler SG or play teague/irving together, then we are reducing our offensive matchup advantages while also largely reducing our defensive potential. Teague/Wiggins/Butler/Dieng/Towns >> Teague/Irving/Butler/Dieng/Towns.
There are no good arguments for a Wiggins + for Irving swap.
We've made enough win-now moves this offseason. Let's not make a mistake of completely overhauling the potential.
