Melo to Thunder

[thedoper]

I'm fine with Melo to Wiggins comps for early career Wiggins. The problem with Melo is that he stopped improving his game. If he would have stayed at it he would have been a top level player. Melo led some solid teams to the playoffs as a young player. If Wiggins plateaus I'll be worried but there are no signs of it yet. Wiggins is light years more athletic than Melo though.

'Melo was a vastly superior player to Wiggins by their respective third years. Wiggins has to improve a ton just to get to 3rd and 4th year 'Melo. But you are correct, after that, 'Melo didn't evolve much.

I'm not the one who made the comparison. Im just highlighting that I wouldn't call it a slight at all if someone did comepare Wiggins to Melo. But as Cool correctly points out, early career they're not that far off. If Wiggins improves even further this year we're looking at a damn good player.

[Monster]

I'm fine with Melo to Wiggins comps for early career Wiggins. The problem with Melo is that he stopped improving his game. If he would have stayed at it he would have been a top level player. Melo led some solid teams to the playoffs as a young player. If Wiggins plateaus I'll be worried but there are no signs of it yet. Wiggins is light years more athletic than Melo though.

'Melo was a vastly superior player to Wiggins by their respective third years. Wiggins has to improve a ton just to get to 3rd and 4th year 'Melo. But you are correct, after that, 'Melo didn't evolve much.

Improve a ton? That's a little bit of hyperbole Q. Here are some Melo stats from his 3rd year:

3 Pt percentage - 24.3%
RPG - 4.9
Assists - 2.7
Steals - 1.1
Blocks .5

And we all know Melo has never been a good defender either. Was he better at the same time? Probably. Vastly superior? Definitely not.

IMHO a big factor in Melo not improving or whatever (especially post olympics when he really broke out) was he couldn't stay healthy. Neither could his teammates which most of them weren't difference makers to begin with. After that terrific season after the Olympics where he broke out for a career high in scoring and the Knicks won 54 games and lost to the Pacers in the ECF finals it all went to a dumpster fire. It's not surprising when you look at the roster you almost wonder how they took the Pacers to 6 games. I'm sure the backcourt of Shumpert and Ray Felton was pretty fearsome in the playoffs. Lol

[thedoper]

I'm fine with Melo to Wiggins comps for early career Wiggins. The problem with Melo is that he stopped improving his game. If he would have stayed at it he would have been a top level player. Melo led some solid teams to the playoffs as a young player. If Wiggins plateaus I'll be worried but there are no signs of it yet. Wiggins is light years more athletic than Melo though.

'Melo was a vastly superior player to Wiggins by their respective third years. Wiggins has to improve a ton just to get to 3rd and 4th year 'Melo. But you are correct, after that, 'Melo didn't evolve much.

Improve a ton? That's a little bit of hyperbole Q. Here are some Melo stats from his 3rd year:

3 Pt percentage - 24.3%
RPG - 4.9
Assists - 2.7
Steals - 1.1
Blocks .5

And we all know Melo has never been a good defender either. Was he better at the same time? Probably. Vastly superior? Definitely not.

IMHO a big factor in Melo not improving or whatever (especially post olympics when he really broke out) was he couldn't stay healthy. Neither could his teammates which most of them weren't difference makers to begin with. After that terrific season after the Olympics where he broke out for a career high in scoring and the Knicks won 54 games and lost to the Pacers in the ECF finals it all went to a dumpster fire. It's not surprising when you look at the roster you almost wonder how they took the Pacers to 6 games. I'm sure the backcourt of Shumpert and Ray Felton was pretty fearsome in the playoffs. Lol

I'm sure injuries played a part, but New York has taken many great players down. It's a tough hang for athletes. I think his body changed for sure as time went on in New York, whether that was injuries or self inflicted remains to be seen. He never struck me as a great character guy, but I rooted hard against him right from the beginning when we faced them in the playoffs. I'm definitely biased. Overall I think Melo was a great player who chose a stable financial situation over winning, and now it may be too late to really make that push. OKC will definitely be fun to watch either way.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I've always been skeptical of guys like Melo and Rudy Gay, scorers who don't really seem to impact the game in other ways. This is also one of the reasons I'm worried about Wiggins, and why I find it a little weird that some of you who love Wiggins are dissing Melo when their flaws are similar.

Melo clearly can't be the team's number one guy and make the team good. And he definitely seems to mentally check out halfway through losing seasons. Those are not good things.

But Melo will now be a team's number 3 guy, and that's going to make his life so much easier. He's always been his team's number 1 guy. He's been the focus of the opponent's defense for his entire career. Not anymore. Playing with Russ and George is going to minimize his lack of versatility, and probably help him be more efficient. Especially having George, Roberson, and Adams out there, his defensive liabilities will be covered up well.

Think of the PGs he's had for the last few years. Broken Derrick Rose. Old Jose Calderon. Pablo Prigioni. Fat Ray Felton. Jeremy Lin for a New York minute. Forty-year old Jason Kidd. Washed up Baron Davis. Washed up Mike Bibby. Just think about that a minute.

Yeesh.

And now he's going to be playing off MVP Russell Westbrook coming off of averaging a triple double plus Paul George as another dynamic player who creates for others. Carmelo is going to benefit so much from playing with those guys, getting open looks from them, and he's got the natural scoring talent to make the most of it for sure.

He's getting away from the triangle, which he always hated.

Plus, Carmelo is going to win a ton of games this year. He hasn't done that since his heyday with the Nuggets more than 10 years ago. I expect that he'll really respond positively to that, especially because he's getting older, so he must know this might be his last chance to really write his legacy, especially with the uncertainty surrounding Westbrook and Paul George's futures.

I get that Carmelo isn't perfect, especially not as your team's number 1 guy. But as a third banana who just needs to score and play his role alongside two guys better than him and the rest of a roster that seems tailor made for his game (in addition to the defense the others bring, Patterson and Abrines should give them some good floor spacing as well), I bet Carmelo's gonna make a significant impact.

I don't understand the Melo and Wiggins comp. Two completely different styles at opposite ends of their respective careers. It's just a poor attempt to rip myself and Wiggins at the same time. If we offered the Thunder Wiggins for Melo, the trade call would be into the league office before we could get off the line.

Of course they're at different stages of their careers so Wiggins is more valuable now, and I didn't say anything about their style of play. My point in saying their flaws are similar is that they are both pretty one-dimensional scoring specialists about whom advanced-stat types legitimately question how much they positively impact their team in terms of wins. Actually, Melo's a better rebounder and playmaker than Wiggins and he has a history of hitting clutch shots and most advanced-stat guys actually argue he makes a more positive impact, but they're both ultimately great scorers who don't play good defense. I'm wary of those guys in general, BUT as a third banana with two other more versatile stars around them, I think that's still a very valuable player (that's even if Melo doesn't play a more versatile game more like he has while playing next to other stars on Team USA). That's why I wouldn't dismiss Melo's impact, and why the addition of Jimmy Butler makes me feel better about offering Wiggins the max although I'm still a little nervous.

My main point in that post wasn't to start a Melo vs. Wiggins debate. I was just using Wiggins as a comparison to make a point about how guys like that can be one-dimensional, but on the right team and with the right role, they can be valuable. I think OKC's lineup is a great fit for Melo, so I expect him to help that team.

[Monster]

I'm fine with Melo to Wiggins comps for early career Wiggins. The problem with Melo is that he stopped improving his game. If he would have stayed at it he would have been a top level player. Melo led some solid teams to the playoffs as a young player. If Wiggins plateaus I'll be worried but there are no signs of it yet. Wiggins is light years more athletic than Melo though.

'Melo was a vastly superior player to Wiggins by their respective third years. Wiggins has to improve a ton just to get to 3rd and 4th year 'Melo. But you are correct, after that, 'Melo didn't evolve much.

Improve a ton? That's a little bit of hyperbole Q. Here are some Melo stats from his 3rd year:

3 Pt percentage - 24.3%
RPG - 4.9
Assists - 2.7
Steals - 1.1
Blocks .5

And we all know Melo has never been a good defender either. Was he better at the same time? Probably. Vastly superior? Definitely not.

IMHO a big factor in Melo not improving or whatever (especially post olympics when he really broke out) was he couldn't stay healthy. Neither could his teammates which most of them weren't difference makers to begin with. After that terrific season after the Olympics where he broke out for a career high in scoring and the Knicks won 54 games and lost to the Pacers in the ECF finals it all went to a dumpster fire. It's not surprising when you look at the roster you almost wonder how they took the Pacers to 6 games. I'm sure the backcourt of Shumpert and Ray Felton was pretty fearsome in the playoffs. Lol

I'm sure injuries played a part, but New York has taken many great players down. It's a tough hang for athletes. I think his body changed for sure as time went on in New York, whether that was injuries or self inflicted remains to be seen. He never struck me as a great character guy, but I rooted hard against him right from the beginning when we faced them in the playoffs. I'm definitely biased. Overall I think Melo was a great player who chose a stable financial situation over winning, and now it may be too late to really make that push. OKC will definitely be fun to watch either way.

I agree with what you said here. I'm not exactly a fan of Melo either (ok maybe that year after the olympics) but I feel like the guy just gets piled on and while he deserves a lot of it the guy is a heck of a player. So I end up defending him to some extent. Right or wrong or whatever Melo wanted to be in NY and he didn't really even want to leave. Oddly I'm kinda hoping for him and OKC to do well because I think despite everything he probably deserves a little better legacy than these last few dumpster fire years he had with the Knicks.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

The fact that the only example we can come up with where Anthony was on a very successful team is Team USA, where they would have dominated with or without him, tells me everything I need to know about Carmelo Anthony. I've never seen him as an NBA winner, and at 33, he's not getting any younger. If you watched him much last year, he clearly looked much older than he had in the past, and his stats decline reflects it...near career lows in rebounding and assists, and only 43% and 36% shooting. He averaged less than 6 rebounds per game as a SF...I don't think he will be anywhere near the league average for PFs this year. And does anyone think his defense will magically get better at his age? I applaud OkC for trying to make something happen, but this closes the gap between them and the Wolves IMO rather than widening it. Maybe at 33 he finds the fountain of youth and actually makes an NBA team better...but I say the odds are against it.

I think your take is the most realistic. This isn't fantasy basketball, you have to stop the other team too. Melo has never elevated any team and his best days are behind him. I'm not overly concerned as a Wolves fan.

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Carmelo in his prime was a great fantasy basketball player, but I've never found him very efficient. If he puts up big fantasy stats this year, he'll be taking shots away from much more efficient George and Westbrook, and that will be to the Wolves' advantage. I also found this stat comparison between Kanter and Anthony interesting:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Carmelo+Anthony&player_id1_select=Carmelo+Anthony&y1=2017&player_id1=anthoca01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Enes+Kanter&player_id2_select=Enes+Kanter&y2=2017&player_id2=kanteen01&idx=players

Anthony is always going to sell more t-shirts, but which guy fits better next to two all stars like George and Russ? Look at TS%, rebounding %, offensive and defensive rating, win shares, and WS/48. Heck, Kanter even scores at a higher rate per 36 than Melo...and he's a true PF whereas Melo will be playing out of position. It will be interesting to see if Melo's enormous ego can handle being 3rd fiddle, and if he finds the nightlife in Oklahoma City as stimulating as the Big Apple. I forecast big problems with this trade.

Kanter is a true PF? When in like 1995? lol

I'm not sure how you missed it but Melo has been playing minutes as a PF for years.

Edit:

I'm not a Melo guy he is a scorer (actually pretty good rebounder) and I don't know that he is a winner but I tend to defend him to some extent. The guy has struggled to stay healthy often even if e played a good number of games he was hampered. Winning? Tell me the other star he played with? Honestly the best player he played with in his prime with the Knicks was probably Tyson Chandler.

If he isn't relatively happy in OKC this yeah well...I guess we will know all we need to know about him. However, he is leaving an absolutely shitstorm organization that he actually didn't want to leave but he basically didn't have a choice and ultimately they wanted him gone. Now he is going to go play with the best 2 players he has ever played with and for one of the best run franchises in the league as this offseason has shown. Honestly he will probably be thrilled to be there and it will feel like a new beginning a vacation of sorts playing for a someplace that has a clue about what they are doing. Westbrook and George are going to get him easy looks and the team is built to play around star players. The only issue is whether he can stay healthy.

We'll have to see, but I'm skeptical that this will work out well. Yeah, I know Melo has played a lot of PF at 6-8...even last year after they moved Porzingis to C. But he has been quite verbal in the past about not wanting to play PF, and his dislike of the additional contact he will have as a PF isn't likely to diminish this late in his career. I also question Melo's character, and wonder whether he can adjust gracefully from being the man in Manhattan to being third fiddle in Oklahoma City...the lights aren't nearly as bright. I agree with everyone here that OkC will be interesting to watch, but I don't agree that this is bad news for the Wolves...I'm still calling for home court advantage in the first round (and if it doesn't happen, I'm calling for Thibs' head :)).

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I actually think their best lineup is Westbrook/PG/Melo/Patterson/Adams over WB/PG/Roberson/Melo/Adams. Patterson stretches the floor while Roberson is worse than Tony Allen offensively. It keeps Melo from getting worn down by 4's. Outside of GS I think going small with Roberson doesn't make a ton of sense for them. They're gonna need the floor stretched out as much as possible to make that offense work well.

[MikkeMan]

I'm fine with Melo to Wiggins comps for early career Wiggins. The problem with Melo is that he stopped improving his game. If he would have stayed at it he would have been a top level player. Melo led some solid teams to the playoffs as a young player. If Wiggins plateaus I'll be worried but there are no signs of it yet. Wiggins is light years more athletic than Melo though.

'Melo was a vastly superior player to Wiggins by their respective third years. Wiggins has to improve a ton just to get to 3rd and 4th year 'Melo. But you are correct, after that, 'Melo didn't evolve much.

Improve a ton? That's a little bit of hyperbole Q. Here are some Melo stats from his 3rd year:

3 Pt percentage - 24.3%
RPG - 4.9
Assists - 2.7
Steals - 1.1
Blocks .5

And we all know Melo has never been a good defender either. Was he better at the same time? Probably. Vastly superior? Definitely not.

It seems that most of the advanced stats agree with Q.

Wiggins 3rd year: PER 16.5, win shares 4.2, WS/48min 0.66, BPM -2.7, VORP -0.6, TS% 53.4
Melo 3rd year: PER 22.0, win shares 9.4, WS/48min 1.53, BPM 1.5, VORP 2.6 TS% 56.3

Even tough Melo's 3rd year was by far his worst year in all do shit stats, he had still higher rebounding, assists, steals and blocks % than Wiggins. He also lead Denver team with just Andre Miller, Kenyan Martin and Marcus Camby to 44 wins even tough both Camby and Martin missed around 25 games that year.

If Wiggins ever improves his efficiency as scorer, rebounding and passing so much that he is same level than Carmelo was during his best years, I will be really happy.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I'm fine with Melo to Wiggins comps for early career Wiggins. The problem with Melo is that he stopped improving his game. If he would have stayed at it he would have been a top level player. Melo led some solid teams to the playoffs as a young player. If Wiggins plateaus I'll be worried but there are no signs of it yet. Wiggins is light years more athletic than Melo though.

'Melo was a vastly superior player to Wiggins by their respective third years. Wiggins has to improve a ton just to get to 3rd and 4th year 'Melo. But you are correct, after that, 'Melo didn't evolve much.

Improve a ton? That's a little bit of hyperbole Q. Here are some Melo stats from his 3rd year:

3 Pt percentage - 24.3%
RPG - 4.9
Assists - 2.7
Steals - 1.1
Blocks .5

And we all know Melo has never been a good defender either. Was he better at the same time? Probably. Vastly superior? Definitely not.

It seems that most of the advanced stats agree with Q.

Wiggins 3rd year: PER 16.5, win shares 4.2, WS/48min 0.66, BPM -2.7, VORP -0.6, TS% 53.4
Melo 3rd year: PER 22.0, win shares 9.4, WS/48min 1.53, BPM 1.5, VORP 2.6 TS% 56.3

Even tough Melo's 3rd year was by far his worst year in all do shit stats, he had still higher rebounding, assists, steals and blocks % than Wiggins. He also lead Denver team with just Andre Miller, Kenyan Martin and Marcus Camby to 44 wins even tough both Camby and Martin missed around 25 games that year.

If Wiggins ever improves his efficiency as scorer, rebounding and passing so much that he is same level than Carmelo was during his best years, I will be really happy.

Exactly. It's not that Carmelo was way better than Wiggins in any one area. It's that he was better than Wiggins in nearly every facet of the game. Add it all up and I consider him a vastly superior player at that point in his career.

[MikkeMan]

I actually think their best lineup is Westbrook/PG/Melo/Patterson/Adams over WB/PG/Roberson/Melo/Adams. Patterson stretches the floor while Roberson is worse than Tony Allen offensively. It keeps Melo from getting worn down by 4's. Outside of GS I think going small with Roberson doesn't make a ton of sense for them. They're gonna need the floor stretched out as much as possible to make that offense work well.

I agree with this. Patterson's ability to stretch the floor might be more important than Roberson's ability to defend since with PG, they have already one elite wing defender in lineup. Melo/PG/Roberson is really nice wing rotation that will make sure that Melo can always take offensively worse wing on defensive end. In the end of games, they can swap between Patterson and Roberson depending on whether they are playing offensive or defensive possession.