monsterpile wrote:I guess it needs to be laid out again.
Marco was bought out and any the time the Sixers has a need with Redick injured for a few games. The Wolves were at full strength. Did they have a need for depth? Yes but Marco got to go to ata that had a need right away.
Illyasova is a guy I've said for years is a pretty good player when healthy. He spent time with the Sixers last year. They made a deal to get Trevor Booker because they felt they had a need at PF. That didn't work. So there was a role there for him as well. The reality is that Marco and Illyasova likely had like half the league calling to see if they wanted to play for them. I bet there are other teams and fans wishing they could have lured those guys.
Meanwhile the Wolves bought out Bazz who had a couple moments for the Bucks. Then they signed Derrick Rose who showed some life in the regular season and just had a pretty good performance in a playoff game and was one of 2 Wolves guards that outplayed a future HOF PG
It's worth noting that last season the Wolves were able to get Lance Stephenson and Omri Casspi to sign here and this season both have had pretty good years.
Does the fact or at the very least perception that Thibs doesn't play bench players have a negative effect on bringing guys in during the offseason or during the season? Yeah it's a fair question that even I pondered some last summer. Dante Cunningham almost signed here though and he didn't really have a clear role and ended up wanting out of the Pels to go to....the Nets.
I think Thibs has also been somewhat picky about who he has brought in for one reason or another. There have been times he has gone for younger players over a possible established vet. They had that roster spot open but they could have added someone else and Rose but they kept MGH. They prioritized Bazz last summer which was a mistake. This summer they need to add some of the right guys who will fit in with this team. Defense and 3 point shooting or bust.
While I didn't mean to pin all the blame on Thibs... or to assume they didn't have good reasons to go to Philly... I still find it interesting. As for Belinelli.... he was a prime buyout candidate all season. It was a matter of where that would be.
He joined Philly two weeks after Redick was back from a 6-game absence. He took Bayless' spot in the lineup... and a few minutes from McConnell, too. Evidently, having one three-point gunner wasn't enough. Or, they wanted one on the court for 48 minutes. Belinelli played 25 minutes in his first game.
Bayless was signed for $27M last season. He's played in only 40 games since... and is mostly in street clothes at this point. They still owe him $9M next season. From what I can tell... Ilyasova was brought in to steal Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot's minutes? After playing high-teens and around 20 mpg... he got a lot more run once Embiid went down.
If nothing else... it appears Brown and the 76ers have no problem switching things up on the fly and changing the chemistry of a team with changing roles, responsibilities, et al. This is one time where it's worked... I assume it doesn't work as well in other cases...
I'm still a bit surprised Atlanta couldn't get something for Marco. There really wasn't many expiring contracts around the league though. Anyway it seems like those guys fit what the team was wanting to do. It seemed like a natural fit. They already had found a role for Illyasova the previous year...which he played so well he probably thought why not go back there? Remember he had a no trade clause and based on the reports I saw he had already decided to go to the Sixers. Good for him. Dude is ballin lately.
It's fair to wonder if there is a negative Thibs effect though. I wonder if next season with the playoff monkey off the back of everyone and if they can find one more trustworthy rotation guy plus people just used to each other and in whatever system Thibs has implimented...he will give guys more opportunities and a longer leash. We will see. There is plenty of reason for skepticism.
thedoper wrote:Has Minnesota ever been a buyout destination? I think Thibs has done as good as any GM we've had at getting free agents here.
We've never been a FA destination for stars, but that doesn't excuse failing to sign good bench players like Belinelli and Ilyasova. Past Wolves free agent signings include Terry Porter, Fred Hoiberg, Trenton Hassell, Try Hudson, Joe Smith, Malik Sealy and JJ Barea. so it's not as if no good role players have ever signed with the Wolves as FAs. I'm sorry, I can't give Thibs a lot of credit for signing Teague to a guaranteed $19 million per year contract. I doubt any other team would have paid him that much. I doubt any other team offered Taj $28 million over two years.
I'd be really disturbed if our front office didn't even pursue Belinelli and Ilyasova. That would truly be inexcusable. If we pursued them and got turned down, I can live with that - but I'd want to know why. I get the weather, etc. But much of our problem luring FAs in the past is that we've been a bad, losing team. As a winning team when these two guys were bought out, we should have been an attractive destination.
George Hill got the same money as Teague, it was the going rate for that level of player at the point. Taj has been well worth the money and filled a huge need for us this year. Imagine if we would have signed Patterson like so many around here wanted. Ouch. Teague and Taj are at or near the top of your list of past free agent signings. Thibs has gone far to improve the talent on this team, I get that you don't like his coaching style, but we are way more talented this year than last.
oh god Patterson, I didn't understand why anyone wanted him after he choked so bad in the playoffs last year. He's done a laughable job replacing Taj in OKC. That signing would have been worse than any player the Thibs haters blame him for picking up.
We found out later there were some reasons for Patterson being "cheap" he had some knee issues and I'm sure that effected him early on and that may still be a problem. Taj outperformed expectations and Patterson has been a pretty big disappointment.
It's kinda funny how different GMs etc have different strengths. Between McHale and Flip they were actually really good at finding and getting something out of the bargain in signings which you can see from the guys Lip mentioned in his post. Billions was basically a stroke of genius no wolves fans were wanting that guy. People made fun of the Hoiberg signing. We all know they other problems they had but that was a strength.
So far Thibs has brought in some really good vet players and gotten a lot out of them. What else can he do? We don't know hopefully more. We will have to see.
The Taj signing is so over hyped by this board. A player that doesn't shoot and or spread the floor, been so over blown by this board all year, clogs the lane. Doesn't give an advantage at all. Rockets are content basically playing Chris paul on him.
Duke13 wrote:The Taj signing is so over hyped by this board. A player that doesn't shoot and or spread the floor, been so over blown by this board all year, clogs the lane. Doesn't give an advantage at all. Rockets are content basically playing Chris paul on him.
You realize he is in the 83rd percentile in pts differential in the league. He is a career low in usage but a career high in pts per attempt. He helps create a culture. Also has been our most consistent player and can switch 1 through 5 and he deserved all his money for game 82 alone
thedoper wrote:Has Minnesota ever been a buyout destination? I think Thibs has done as good as any GM we've had at getting free agents here.
We've never been a FA destination for stars, but that doesn't excuse failing to sign good bench players like Belinelli and Ilyasova. Past Wolves free agent signings include Terry Porter, Fred Hoiberg, Trenton Hassell, Try Hudson, Joe Smith, Malik Sealy and JJ Barea. so it's not as if no good role players have ever signed with the Wolves as FAs. I'm sorry, I can't give Thibs a lot of credit for signing Teague to a guaranteed $19 million per year contract. I doubt any other team would have paid him that much. I doubt any other team offered Taj $28 million over two years.
I'd be really disturbed if our front office didn't even pursue Belinelli and Ilyasova. That would truly be inexcusable. If we pursued them and got turned down, I can live with that - but I'd want to know why. I get the weather, etc. But much of our problem luring FAs in the past is that we've been a bad, losing team. As a winning team when these two guys were bought out, we should have been an attractive destination.
George Hill got the same money as Teague, it was the going rate for that level of player at the point. Taj has been well worth the money and filled a huge need for us this year. Imagine if we would have signed Patterson like so many around here wanted. Ouch. Teague and Taj are at or near the top of your list of past free agent signings. Thibs has gone far to improve the talent on this team, I get that you don't like his coaching style, but we are way more talented this year than last.
Here's my point. It's one thing to sign free agents by giving them a lot of money that few if any other teams are willing to offer and with the understanding that they will be starters - namely Teague and Taj. It's another thing to attract and sign lower-priced quality rotation players. Thibs succeeded in the former, but has failed in the latter. Honestly, if you were an NBA player looking to sign somewhere for minimum money, would you want to play for a head coach who (1) has a reputation for not spreading playing time around beyond his starters and maybe one or two others, and (2) who is constantly yelling at you and telling you what to do on every single possession? Thibs' approach/style as a head coach has to make it harder for him to attract free agents and that's a legitimate concern. But again, I'd be far more concerned if we were to learn that Thibs didn't even pursue or failed to aggressively pursue/recruit Belinelli or Ilyasova.
thedoper wrote:Has Minnesota ever been a buyout destination? I think Thibs has done as good as any GM we've had at getting free agents here.
We've never been a FA destination for stars, but that doesn't excuse failing to sign good bench players like Belinelli and Ilyasova. Past Wolves free agent signings include Terry Porter, Fred Hoiberg, Trenton Hassell, Try Hudson, Joe Smith, Malik Sealy and JJ Barea. so it's not as if no good role players have ever signed with the Wolves as FAs. I'm sorry, I can't give Thibs a lot of credit for signing Teague to a guaranteed $19 million per year contract. I doubt any other team would have paid him that much. I doubt any other team offered Taj $28 million over two years.
I'd be really disturbed if our front office didn't even pursue Belinelli and Ilyasova. That would truly be inexcusable. If we pursued them and got turned down, I can live with that - but I'd want to know why. I get the weather, etc. But much of our problem luring FAs in the past is that we've been a bad, losing team. As a winning team when these two guys were bought out, we should have been an attractive destination.
George Hill got the same money as Teague, it was the going rate for that level of player at the point. Taj has been well worth the money and filled a huge need for us this year. Imagine if we would have signed Patterson like so many around here wanted. Ouch. Teague and Taj are at or near the top of your list of past free agent signings. Thibs has gone far to improve the talent on this team, I get that you don't like his coaching style, but we are way more talented this year than last.
Here's my point. It's one thing to sign free agents by giving them a lot of money that few if any other teams are willing to offer and with the understanding that they will be starters - namely Teague and Taj. It's another thing to attract and sign lower-priced quality rotation players. Thibs succeeded in the former, but has failed in the latter. Honestly, if you were an NBA player looking to sign somewhere for minimum money, would you want to play for a head coach who (1) has a reputation for not spreading playing time around beyond his starters and maybe one or two others, and (2) who is constantly yelling at you and telling you what to do on every single possession? Thibs' approach/style as a head coach has to make it harder for him to attract free agents and that's a legitimate concern. But again, I'd be far more concerned if we were to learn that Thibs didn't even pursue or failed to aggressively pursue/recruit Belinelli or Ilyasova.
It's a concern that you are completely making up. That may be your opinion and you're entitled to it but there is zero evidence that free agents don't want to come here yet. If next year we can't get someone for the MLE and bi-annual exemption I'm all ears. For now Thibs signed Teague Taj, Crawford, and Rose with little trouble.
thedoper wrote:Has Minnesota ever been a buyout destination? I think Thibs has done as good as any GM we've had at getting free agents here.
We've never been a FA destination for stars, but that doesn't excuse failing to sign good bench players like Belinelli and Ilyasova. Past Wolves free agent signings include Terry Porter, Fred Hoiberg, Trenton Hassell, Try Hudson, Joe Smith, Malik Sealy and JJ Barea. so it's not as if no good role players have ever signed with the Wolves as FAs. I'm sorry, I can't give Thibs a lot of credit for signing Teague to a guaranteed $19 million per year contract. I doubt any other team would have paid him that much. I doubt any other team offered Taj $28 million over two years.
I'd be really disturbed if our front office didn't even pursue Belinelli and Ilyasova. That would truly be inexcusable. If we pursued them and got turned down, I can live with that - but I'd want to know why. I get the weather, etc. But much of our problem luring FAs in the past is that we've been a bad, losing team. As a winning team when these two guys were bought out, we should have been an attractive destination.
George Hill got the same money as Teague, it was the going rate for that level of player at the point. Taj has been well worth the money and filled a huge need for us this year. Imagine if we would have signed Patterson like so many around here wanted. Ouch. Teague and Taj are at or near the top of your list of past free agent signings. Thibs has gone far to improve the talent on this team, I get that you don't like his coaching style, but we are way more talented this year than last.
Here's my point. It's one thing to sign free agents by giving them a lot of money that few if any other teams are willing to offer and with the understanding that they will be starters - namely Teague and Taj. It's another thing to attract and sign lower-priced quality rotation players. Thibs succeeded in the former, but has failed in the latter. Honestly, if you were an NBA player looking to sign somewhere for minimum money, would you want to play for a head coach who (1) has a reputation for not spreading playing time around beyond his starters and maybe one or two others, and (2) who is constantly yelling at you and telling you what to do on every single possession? Thibs' approach/style as a head coach has to make it harder for him to attract free agents and that's a legitimate concern. But again, I'd be far more concerned if we were to learn that Thibs didn't even pursue or failed to aggressively pursue/recruit Belinelli or Ilyasova.
It's a concern that you are completely making up. That may be your opinion and you're entitled to it but there is zero evidence that free agents don't want to come here yet. If next year we can't get someone for the MLE and bi-annual exemption I'm all ears. For now Thibs signed Teague Taj, Crawford, and Rose with little trouble.
Agreed. This is a narrative that has little to no merit at this point. The fact that many of the players we got HAVE ALREADY ACTUALLY PLAYED FOR HIM kind of proves the point. If he was such a jerkoff, as many say, why would guys like Butler, Taj, Rose want to play for him again?
Also, I am so sick of the masses on this board expecting an organization to go from perennial loser to filling every freakin hole in 1 single season! This is not a realistic view. You don't go from the bottom of the barrel to a top 2-3 team in a single season. This is a process that takes time. Believe it or not, but actually making the playoffs probably helps our case for picking up a good vet player next season for the MLE. We now have a promising young core THAT ALSO was able to get to the playoffs. I agree with everyone that we are really just support pieces away....I just don't get so upset that the Wolves weren't able to fill every hole this last offseason.
Hicks, I think the problem some folks might have is that we spent the kind of money and signed the kind of contracts that doesn't make it easy to fill those holes. Thibs went all in on "winning now", but put some real constraints on future moves while at the same time constructing a roster that doesn't always seem to fit well together.
Q12543 wrote:Hicks, I think the problem some folks might have is that we spent the kind of money and signed the kind of contracts that doesn't make it easy to fill those holes. Thibs went all in on "winning now", but put some real constraints on future moves while at the same time constructing a roster that doesn't always seem to fit well together.
Our future moves would have been just as constrained if Thibs didn't sign anyone or if he made cheaper deals because once KATs extension kicks in that's it. Last season was the offseason to acquire enough high value assets to be flexible for deals. Not spending to near the cap last year would have been silly because the Wiggins and KAT extensions would have erased that space anyway. And we would have been in an real pickle with Lavine too if he would have played as colossally bad as he did in Chicago.
