KiwiMatt wrote:OKCs problem is they have no bench and Melo isn't a PF even in today's NBA. Offensively he can cope but defensively he cannot guard 4s. Steven Adams is continually having to rotate on to Melos man which nullifies his effectiveness as a low post defender. They play more ISO ball than we do and have just as bad floor spacing. I'm not sure there's an easy fix either other than trading George or Melo.
lipoli390 wrote:
monsterpile wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:
monsterpile wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:Despite the doom and gloom here (me included), the Wolves remain tied for 4th place in the West...with their easiest stretch of games coming up. What's happening is that the top 3 are hot, and nobody else is...the emergence of the East helps. The Thibs factor is holding us back, but we are so talented I see us overcoming the coaching to some extent and staying in the hunt for that 4th spot. Of course, all bets are off if Butler's finger has him out for a while. Other teams can overcome injuries to their stars, but not a Thibs team.
To GM Thibs' credit though, I continue to think he dodged a bullet in not drafting Markannen. Just like last season, he started out hot and then is cooling off drastically. He is now shooting 10 percentage points lower than Kris Dunn on threes!
"Other teams can overcome injuries to their stars, but not a Thibs team."
Um...really?
There's been a running theme on this board this year that we have been lucky to face teams missing their best player (or players), although sometimes those teams have still managed to overcome the loss and beat us. The first game of the year against the Spurs is an example, as is last night's game against the Griz. And there have been several other instances in between these two games.
In contrast, we completely collapsed when we lost Butler for a few games...they were our worst games of the year.
You're right, LST. Not sure about the source of Monster's confusion. :).
We're both of you in a coma during Thibs years with the Bulls or something?
Lol. That's a good one, Monster. :). I enjoyed the laugh.
I can't top that, but I'll come back with this. Thibs had a team of tough, grind-it-out defenders in Noah, Butler, Gibson, etc. -- all of them with very young legs. And that was when the League and especially the Eastern Conference were much more oriented towards Thibs' type of game. But Thibs is now coaching a very different type of team in a very different League/Conference. In over a season and a quarter with the Wolves, Thibs has shown no abilty to adapt his coaching to his personnel or the League around him. So if either of his veteran grinders (Butler or Taj) goes down, the Wolves are in trouble as we already saw when Butler was out for two games.
LST and I may have been comatose years ago when Thibs was coaching the Bulls, but we're wide awake now and disgusted by what we see. I suspect you have your sleep shades on. I recommend you keep then on. The Wolves are an ugly sight right now. :)
I'm glad you got a chuckle out of that Lip. =)
Its worth mentioning...how many of those guys played more than 70 games a season? Its ridiculous to say Thibs teams can't win without stars when he did it year after year after year and you can argue that most people thought there was really only one star on those entire rosters at the time (we learned later that may have not been the case) and his name was Derrick Rose and we know how that played out. And yes its not all about what he did 3-4 years ago (what have you done for me lately) but I think its fair to say that's a pretty legit part of his resume to just dismiss.
Look we all have our own perspectives and way of looking at things. We all have our biases and often those are based on legit factors. Sometimes that leads us to see what we want to see (or sometimes what we don't want to see lol). We always need to be wiling to question what we think we know. I think most people hear are ultimately wanting to do that even if we sometimes are all to happy to point out why we are right about something even if we aren't trying to be jerks about it. Who doesn't want to actually be right sometimes? =)
Here is where I am at. Personally I think Thibs is more flexible than people give him credit for. It's not that difficult to find ways he has adapted over the past few months. the way I look at the offense is that he actually doesn't want to build it around one player. He wants it to be an offense where anyone can make plays at any time. That is gonna take some time to make happen. OKC had problems with that for years and still does through 2 coaches and some different players. Its still a players league and as much as Thibs may want to and try to control things we all know that's not always realistic. I'm not sure he is the guy to get this thing done right but I'm wiling to give the guy more than like 110 games which include some serious roster turnover and young players that clearly haven't figured it out yet which most don't at that age.
All good points, Monster. We're just in different places when it comes to Thibs. When I look at Thibs I see a stubborn mule who doesn't adapt well and who hasn't grown. I see someone whose runs an archaic offense and fails to take advantage of the strenghts of the players he has. I see someone who overplays his starters. I also see a coach who failed to connect with the players when he got here and who (with the exception of Jimmy Butler) seems even less connected to his players now. I see a head coach who, over 82 games last season, failed to improve on what Sam Mitchell did even though the players he inherited from Sam were more experienced and had already showed marked improvement at the end of Sam's season.
Yes, he had success with the Bulls, even with Derrick Rose out. But what we see now is more relevant and instructive. Thibs doesn't have the extended track record of a Pop or Carlisle to justify a lot of slack beyond 110 games. And ultimately Thibs was fired by the Bulls even after a 50-win season. That's interesting and some people like to brush that off as conflict between Thibs and the Bulls' front office. But my friend in Chicago -- a Bulls long-time season ticket holder who is pretty well connected said that, with the exception of Butler, the players couldn't stand Thibs by the end of his tenure there.
I hope the Wolves catch fire and finish in the top 4. I'd like nothing more than to read a "see I told you so" post from you at the end of the season. But right now I'd like to see us move on from Thibs - if not now at least as soon as this season is over.
Yeah, I would love a "see, I told you so" post from the Thibs supporters later too...despite my skepticism about him, I want him to succeed.
But a couple things that happened after the Memphis game caused Thibs to totally lose me. First, his post-game comments that the Wolves moved the ball well all game, but just missed their shots. While I didn't see the game, that comment was 180 degrees from what some very smart posters here said...and frankly, I trust the guys here way more than Thibs. Posters here are objective...Thibs seems to be making excuses (and blaming the players) with many of his comments. Second, the Jon K. tweet about the poor body language of the players. This team is winning at a rate we have not seen in years, and yet an objective guy like Jon is seeing signs the players are unhappy. That is very telling to me, and points directly at the coach. Sounds like he has lost this team, and the only solution is to replace him with someone younger.
If you saw the Butler video/interview where he fell over in the canoe? He was asked about Thibs and he said, honestly I hated him. But then he backed it up that he wasn't playing right away. So I don't know.
I can see with the young guys going from being likely coddled and praised pretty much most their lives to Thibs, I can just see them tuning him out and not listening. Thus no matter what he does he is in a no win position. As a coach you need to cater your coaching to the players you have, especially in the NBA where large guaranteed contracts for superstars and coaches are expendable.
The point is, not that you as a coach have to get them to like you but you need them to listen and buy in. I don't know if they are with his abrasive style. He's not getting the maximum talent and effort out of this team. I would say far from it.
WolvesFan21 wrote:If you saw the Butler video/interview where he fell over in the canoe? He was asked about Thibs and he said, honestly I hated him. But then he backed it up that he wasn't playing right away. So I don't know.
I can see with the young guys going from being likely coddled and praised pretty much most their lives to Thibs, I can just see them tuning him out and not listening. Thus no matter what he does he is in a no win position. As a coach you need to cater your coaching to the players you have, especially in the NBA where large guaranteed contracts for superstars and coaches are expendable.
The point is, not that you as a coach have to get them to like you but you need them to listen and buy in. I don't know if they are with his abrasive style. He's not getting the maximum talent and effort out of this team. I would say far from it.
In that Video Jimmy also talked about Thibs having a "human element" now and in particular where he asks you about how your life is away from Basketball is.
Jon K said on his latest podcast he doesn't think there is any disharmony between Towns and Thibs it's just both guys are stubborn and need to get on the same page. He said it's pretty tough for Thibs to bench Towns like Pop would. He said not many more guys than Pop can get away with doing that kind of thing to a star player and Towns lets be honest is a star player. He also said he thinks Thibs antics during the game are too much not many people will disagree with that although it seems like he has noticeably toned down this year which Jon said also.
Camden wrote:Potential wings to target via trade before February:
- Marco Belinelli
- Courtney Lee
- DeMarre Carroll
- Darius Miller
- Jared Dudley
Good stuff there Cam. As others have pointed out to me, Dudley may more of a small ball 4 these days, but either way, I've always been a fan of trying to get him in the door.
I have to believe this is on their radar. Heaven forbid Butler or Wiggins go down for any extended period of time.
WolvesFan21 wrote:If you saw the Butler video/interview where he fell over in the canoe? He was asked about Thibs and he said, honestly I hated him. But then he backed it up that he wasn't playing right away. So I don't know.
I can see with the young guys going from being likely coddled and praised pretty much most their lives to Thibs, I can just see them tuning him out and not listening. Thus no matter what he does he is in a no win position. As a coach you need to cater your coaching to the players you have, especially in the NBA where large guaranteed contracts for superstars and coaches are expendable.
The point is, not that you as a coach have to get them to like you but you need them to listen and buy in. I don't know if they are with his abrasive style. He's not getting the maximum talent and effort out of this team. I would say far from it.
I agree. And honestly, would anyone who posts on this board want to work for a guy who behaves like Thibs -- his constant barking and micromanaging along with his dower facial expressions and horribly negative body language? Even worse when you hear your boss say things publicly you know aren't true to cover his own ass -- like saying the ball movement was good but the players just missed shots. The ball movement was NOT good in that game and there were too many highly contested shots against a bad team against whom we should have have far more wide open shots. In any event, it's clear Thibs has not connected with his players and has failed to adapt his team's style of play to fully reflect the talents of his players.
Kris Dunn with 18 points on 8-14 shooting, 6 rebounds and 6 assists. He's really starting to play well.
Markkenan had another horrible shooting night. I'd like to believe that Thibs wasn't really going to draft Markkenan. I'd prefer to believe that, if not for the Butler trade, Thibs was going to trade down a few slots and take Donovan Mitchell. Well, the good news is that Thibs made the Butler trade. :)
Camden wrote:Potential wings to target via trade before February:
- Marco Belinelli
- Courtney Lee
- DeMarre Carroll
- Darius Miller
- Jared Dudley
Good stuff there Cam. As others have pointed out to me, Dudley may more of a small ball 4 these days, but either way, I've always been a fan of trying to get him in the door.
I have to believe this is on their radar. Heaven forbid Butler or Wiggins go down for any extended period of time.
We haven't had a Courtney Lee mention for quite awhile here. Probably a record. So thanks for that.
I've been in the Jared Dudley fan club for quite awhile. The guy seems like he's about 45 years old... but he's still pretty consistent when he gets run at 32. Definitely could get some of Muhammad (previous) minutes. But he's last in minutes on one of the worst teams in the league right now. You'd think Phoenix will pull out the old Timberwolves special and buy him out as a goodwill gesture for other players around the league. UNLESS... Dudley is content in a city he really digs and without consequences... as he tries to make inroads into broadcasting/analysis for his post-career gig.
It would be fun to travel back in time a couple years just to tell people that on December 2017 the Sixers would trade a 2nd round pick Okafor and Staukus to acquire Trevor Booker.
