Duke13 wrote:It's insane to me anybody could be happy with Wig's game last night. This is the problem, we are happy when he gives effort. As far as I'm concerned his lack of skill/talent or whatever you wanna call it and his motor are both below average. 4/15 night is all too common.
The effort was noticeable at the beginning of the game.
And to your point... as many of us have pointed out repeatedly all season... the fact that his level of intensity in a particular game can be that noticeable, that quickly... is probably more of a criticism than a compliment.
He is absolutely a player that should be shopped this offseason. He is also absolutely a player that we need to command a fairly high return on, as he still is young and continues to show flashes of two-way stardom. But they are just that...flashes. We've been seeing those flashes since he was a rookie! The light never stays on over a sustained period!
Duke13 wrote:It's insane to me anybody could be happy with Wig's game last night. This is the problem, we are happy when he gives effort. As far as I'm concerned his lack of skill/talent or whatever you wanna call it and his motor are both below average. 4/15 night is all too common.
He was 5 of 14. But he has been our best player in the series. Probably played the best defense on our team yesterday.
He is averaging 16.2/5.5/2.5 on 46% from the floor 35% from 3. With very solid defense.
Could he be better of course. But he is the 3rd option on this team going forward so those are great 3rd option numbers. He is going to end up with the best numbers of any of the wolves starters this postseason.
A lot of people have doubts on andrew and rightfully so but he has at least shown up to the moment
Duke13 wrote:It's insane to me anybody could be happy with Wig's game last night. This is the problem, we are happy when he gives effort. As far as I'm concerned his lack of skill/talent or whatever you wanna call it and his motor are both below average. 4/15 night is all too common.
The effort was noticeable at the beginning of the game.
And to your point... as many of us have pointed out repeatedly all season... the fact that his level of intensity in a particular game can be that noticeable, that quickly... is probably more of a criticism than a compliment.
He is absolutely a player that should be shopped this offseason. He is also absolutely a player that we need to command a fairly high return on, as he still is young and continues to show flashes of two-way stardom. But they are just that...flashes. We've been seeing those flashes since he was a rookie! The light never stays on over a sustained period!
I agree with this 100% you can shop him but you better be getting a borderline all star back at the minimum
Duke13 wrote:It's insane to me anybody could be happy with Wig's game last night. This is the problem, we are happy when he gives effort. As far as I'm concerned his lack of skill/talent or whatever you wanna call it and his motor are both below average. 4/15 night is all too common.
The effort was noticeable at the beginning of the game.
And to your point... as many of us have pointed out repeatedly all season... the fact that his level of intensity in a particular game can be that noticeable, that quickly... is probably more of a criticism than a compliment.
He is absolutely a player that should be shopped this offseason. He is also absolutely a player that we need to command a fairly high return on, as he still is young and continues to show flashes of two-way stardom. But they are just that...flashes. We've been seeing those flashes since he was a rookie! The light never stays on over a sustained period!
That's partly why he's become such a lightning rod around here.
If only...
Sometimes, a change of scenery is great for players. Things haven't worked out as well as any of us thought here for Wiggins. I think even his biggest fans would agree. And that's not all his fault. He's had three coaches. That's not easy on a young player... who's supposed to be the face of the franchise.
But a fresh start can be good for guys. For example, I think Rubio moving to Utah was good for him. I'm not at all convinced he'd be producing triple doubles in the playoffs for this team if in Teague's place. Different team. Different style. Different CULTURE.
Sometimes, it's the more subtle things that can impact a player's on-court performance.
[Note: Heck, look at Oladipo. He's even more comparable to Wiggins. Immense talent who seemed to stagnate a bit... but all it took was a change. Is that a knock on the player... or the organization(s)... or neither?]
AbeVigodaLive wrote:So this series has been a challenge. Do I catch a bit of a national vibe about the Wolves or stick to the more nuanced, inside look into the Wolves with Benz and Peterson. I've done a bit of both. Here's what I learned:
- Shaq really doesn't like KAT. I know he hasn't played particularly well in this series. But damn... he is ripped in EVERY comment from Shaq, even made buckets.
- I get it guys... both Barkley and Shaq are HOFers mostly for inside play. And there's justification in having Towns on the block in mismatches. But neither guy seems to have a clue that the NBA changed defensive rules since they last played. Zones are allowed. The defensive 3-second rule is different. Spacing is different. Hand-checking has changed things.
Why won't they point it out? It takes next-level analysis... and they're about entertainment, cashing checks and protecting their own legacies.
Acknowledging today's centers have it tougher in some ways insinuates that the old generation had it easier. And they're not willing to do that. Obviously. Ever.
- Remember that game early this season when Barkley went on and on and on about Towns shooting 3 pointers and how dumb it was because he missed them that ONE game?
KAT shot 42.1% on 3.5 attempts per game.
In 1997, Barkley shot 28.3%... on 3.9 attempts per game.
- I'm glad Peterson and Benz are not completely unabashed homers like a lot of other local broadcasting crews... I'll take them over the national guys.
Good take on Shaq and Barkley's commentary. I'll take Jim Peterson any day as my go-to analyst on the Wolves or basketball generally any day. Some of the themes I've noticed in Jim Pete's criticism of the Wolves this season have been (1) poor spacing, (2) overdribbling, and (3) poor perimeter defense -- failure to guard 3s and failure to contain dribble penetration.
My DirectTV Now subscription wasn't working when the game started so...I went to get a stream on the internet and ended up with a local broadcast which was worth watching on a smaller screen (I could have hooked it up to the bigger tv but just wanted to see the game). It was also nice that the stream was one I could pause a couple times. It was cool to hear those guys call a playoff game Jim Peterson deserves that about as much as anyone after all these crappy years and for quite a few now being a terrific analyst even if I don't agree with everything he says.
Duke13 wrote:It's insane to me anybody could be happy with Wig's game last night. This is the problem, we are happy when he gives effort. As far as I'm concerned his lack of skill/talent or whatever you wanna call it and his motor are both below average. 4/15 night is all too common.
The effort was noticeable at the beginning of the game.
And to your point... as many of us have pointed out repeatedly all season... the fact that his level of intensity in a particular game can be that noticeable, that quickly... is probably more of a criticism than a compliment.
He is absolutely a player that should be shopped this offseason. He is also absolutely a player that we need to command a fairly high return on, as he still is young and continues to show flashes of two-way stardom. But they are just that...flashes. We've been seeing those flashes since he was a rookie! The light never stays on over a sustained period!
That's partly why he's become such a lightning rod around here.
If only...
Sometimes, a change of scenery is great for players. Things haven't worked out as well as any of us thought here for Wiggins. I think even his biggest fans would agree. And that's not all his fault. He's had three coaches. That's not easy on a young player... who's supposed to be the face of the franchise.
But a fresh start can be good for guys. For example, I think Rubio moving to Utah was good for him. I'm not at all convinced he'd be producing triple doubles in the playoffs for this team if in Teague's place. Different team. Different style. Different CULTURE.
Sometimes, it's the more subtle things that can impact a player's on-court performance.
[Note: Heck, look at Oladipo. He's even more comparable to Wiggins. Immense talent who seemed to stagnate a bit... but all it took was a change. Is that a knock on the player... or the organization(s)... or neither?]
I have appreciated your angle on Wiggins maybe not fulfilling his promise here. To me though what he did in the playoffs the last 4 games on both sides of the ball...does it give you a bit more to think about? It's just 4 games and we have been fooled by plenty of guys in all kinds of spots in their careers for some level of playoff success but it feels like Wiggins might be capable of being a legit playoff player. Thoughts?
If only Wiggins was drafted 12th and given an extension at 15mil per for overachieving. People would be lauding the progress he's made. Look how people still view Zach here. He played no d, had no idea how to play team ball, but shot in the high 30s from 3, and people talk about his all star potential.
The playoffs have been good for Wigs. No doubt he belongs and hopefully will continue to build on that foundation. His D has made huge strides this year, I'm excited to see him really start to impact games on the defensive side.
Duke13 wrote:It's insane to me anybody could be happy with Wig's game last night. This is the problem, we are happy when he gives effort. As far as I'm concerned his lack of skill/talent or whatever you wanna call it and his motor are both below average. 4/15 night is all too common.
The effort was noticeable at the beginning of the game.
And to your point... as many of us have pointed out repeatedly all season... the fact that his level of intensity in a particular game can be that noticeable, that quickly... is probably more of a criticism than a compliment.
He is absolutely a player that should be shopped this offseason. He is also absolutely a player that we need to command a fairly high return on, as he still is young and continues to show flashes of two-way stardom. But they are just that...flashes. We've been seeing those flashes since he was a rookie! The light never stays on over a sustained period!
That's partly why he's become such a lightning rod around here.
If only...
Sometimes, a change of scenery is great for players. Things haven't worked out as well as any of us thought here for Wiggins. I think even his biggest fans would agree. And that's not all his fault. He's had three coaches. That's not easy on a young player... who's supposed to be the face of the franchise.
But a fresh start can be good for guys. For example, I think Rubio moving to Utah was good for him. I'm not at all convinced he'd be producing triple doubles in the playoffs for this team if in Teague's place. Different team. Different style. Different CULTURE.
Sometimes, it's the more subtle things that can impact a player's on-court performance.
[Note: Heck, look at Oladipo. He's even more comparable to Wiggins. Immense talent who seemed to stagnate a bit... but all it took was a change. Is that a knock on the player... or the organization(s)... or neither?]
I have appreciated your angle on Wiggins maybe not fulfilling his promise here. To me though what he did in the playoffs the last 4 games on both sides of the ball...does it give you a bit more to think about? It's just 4 games and we have been fooled by plenty of guys in all kinds of spots in their careers for some level of playoff success but it feels like Wiggins might be capable of being a legit playoff player. Thoughts?
If he played with intensity and effort more often... like he's done more frequently in these playoffs... I would find his bouts of inconsistencies much more palatable. Yes.
- A hard-working 3-and-D guy with off the charts explosiveness at times is frickin awesome... even at a max contract.
- A 3-and-D guy in size/theory with off the charts explosiveness at times who never figures it out is Jeff Green.
I'm not saying Wiggins is the latter. But that's a very fair comp for 2018 regular season Wiggins.
Wiggins has played better in the playoffs than the regular season, but the bar is fairly low. Here are his playoff numbers using a few well-respected metrics:
TS% - 54% (good for Wiggins, barely average in today's NBA, keeps missing too many FTs)
PER - 14.3 (about average)
WS/48 - .054 (below average)
Net Rating -13.3 (only Teague's is worse)
.....and this is from our "best" player in the playoffs. Not good enough.
How about Otto Porter?
TS% - 60%
PER - 18.1
WS/48 - .161
Net Rating -.1
Or Joe Ingles?
TS% - 62%
PER - 14.4
WS/48 - .141
Net Rating +22.2
Or OG Anunoby?
TS% - 80% (!)
PER - 18.9
WS/48 - .215
Net Rating +4.6
It's all small sample sizes, but I don't see anything particularly special in terms of what Wiggins has done. In fact, it's decidedly meh.
Duke13 wrote:It's insane to me anybody could be happy with Wig's game last night. This is the problem, we are happy when he gives effort. As far as I'm concerned his lack of skill/talent or whatever you wanna call it and his motor are both below average. 4/15 night is all too common.
Move on. It's just your new agenda which you always seem to need to have.
