Q12543 wrote:Wiggins has played better in the playoffs than the regular season, but the bar is fairly low. Here are his playoff numbers using a few well-respected metrics:
TS% - 54% (good for Wiggins, barely average in today's NBA, keeps missing too many FTs)
PER - 14.3 (about average)
WS/48 - .054 (below average)
Net Rating -13.3 (only Teague's is worse)
.....and this is from our "best" player in the playoffs. Not good enough.
How about Otto Porter?
TS% - 60%
PER - 18.1
WS/48 - .161
Net Rating -.1
Or Joe Ingles?
TS% - 62%
PER - 14.4
WS/48 - .141
Net Rating +22.2
Or OG Anunoby?
TS% - 80% (!)
PER - 18.9
WS/48 - .215
Net Rating +4.6
It's all small sample sizes, but I don't see anything particularly special in terms of what Wiggins has done. In fact, it's decidedly meh.
Q, when you add in his defense he's been very good in this series. Great? No. But he's been far from our biggest problem and the frustration I feel is the microscope always lands on him here. To use Abe's phrase, let's just be fair to be fair.
If we could get a good return for Wiggins I'd jump on it. For me, it's hard to watch guys who can't shoot at a reasonable percentage but get lauded because they can dunk once in a while. Wiggins is above average around the rim, but beyond that he's a poor offensive player. His passing is OK, his handle is bad.
He hasn't trended up but down this year too shooting. That's an issue if this team wants to realistically contend IF he doesn't at least get to avg numbers considering the money he will be getting.
WolvesFan21 wrote:If we could get a good return for Wiggins I'd jump on it. For me, it's hard to watch guys who can't shoot at a reasonable percentage but get lauded because they can dunk once in a while. Wiggins is above average around the rim, but beyond that he's a poor offensive player. His passing is OK, his handle is bad.
He hasn't trended up but down this year too shooting. That's an issue if this team wants to realistically contend IF he doesn't at least get to avg numbers considering the money he will be getting.
It really isn't his handle that is so bad. I think that's a misnomer. It's his hands that are the problem. They affect him catching the ball, rebounding it, and holding onto it in traffic. On the latter you can clearly see teams are punching at the ball when he drives because he has so much trouble with it. He can't handle it like a point guard, but most of the problem comes when he stops to gather and go up. That's not his handle.
WolvesFan21 wrote:If we could get a good return for Wiggins I'd jump on it. For me, it's hard to watch guys who can't shoot at a reasonable percentage but get lauded because they can dunk once in a while. Wiggins is above average around the rim, but beyond that he's a poor offensive player. His passing is OK, his handle is bad.
He hasn't trended up but down this year too shooting. That's an issue if this team wants to realistically contend IF he doesn't at least get to avg numbers considering the money he will be getting.
It really isn't his handle that is so bad. I think that's a misnomer. It's his hands that are the problem. They affect him catching the ball, rebounding it, and holding onto it in traffic. On the latter you can clearly see teams are punching at the ball when he drives because he has so much trouble with it. He can't handle it like a point guard, but most of the problem comes when he stops to gather and go up. That's not his handle.
WolvesFan21 wrote:If we could get a good return for Wiggins I'd jump on it. For me, it's hard to watch guys who can't shoot at a reasonable percentage but get lauded because they can dunk once in a while. Wiggins is above average around the rim, but beyond that he's a poor offensive player. His passing is OK, his handle is bad.
He hasn't trended up but down this year too shooting. That's an issue if this team wants to realistically contend IF he doesn't at least get to avg numbers considering the money he will be getting.
It really isn't his handle that is so bad. I think that's a misnomer. It's his hands that are the problem. They affect him catching the ball, rebounding it, and holding onto it in traffic. On the latter you can clearly see teams are punching at the ball when he drives because he has so much trouble with it. He can't handle it like a point guard, but most of the problem comes when he stops to gather and go up. That's not his handle.
But it's still a problem.
Not from my coaches eye it isn't. Not from a wing player. He has terrible hands. He probably dribbles better than Butler does.
WolvesFan21 wrote:If we could get a good return for Wiggins I'd jump on it. For me, it's hard to watch guys who can't shoot at a reasonable percentage but get lauded because they can dunk once in a while. Wiggins is above average around the rim, but beyond that he's a poor offensive player. His passing is OK, his handle is bad.
He hasn't trended up but down this year too shooting. That's an issue if this team wants to realistically contend IF he doesn't at least get to avg numbers considering the money he will be getting.
It really isn't his handle that is so bad. I think that's a misnomer. It's his hands that are the problem. They affect him catching the ball, rebounding it, and holding onto it in traffic. On the latter you can clearly see teams are punching at the ball when he drives because he has so much trouble with it. He can't handle it like a point guard, but most of the problem comes when he stops to gather and go up. That's not his handle.
But it's still a problem.
Not from my coaches eye it isn't. Not from a wing player. He has terrible hands. He probably dribbles better than Butler does.
I guess I'm not seeing the forest through the trees on this one?
If he's unable to do certain things on a basketball court that the top players do... whether it's for a lack of handles or poor hands... it's a problem.
It's like me saying the only reason I'm not nailing Scarlett Johansson on the sly this weekend is because of my bad hearing... when it's really because of penis size. In the end, I'm not nailing her either way, so who cares.
WolvesFan21 wrote:If we could get a good return for Wiggins I'd jump on it. For me, it's hard to watch guys who can't shoot at a reasonable percentage but get lauded because they can dunk once in a while. Wiggins is above average around the rim, but beyond that he's a poor offensive player. His passing is OK, his handle is bad.
He hasn't trended up but down this year too shooting. That's an issue if this team wants to realistically contend IF he doesn't at least get to avg numbers considering the money he will be getting.
It really isn't his handle that is so bad. I think that's a misnomer. It's his hands that are the problem. They affect him catching the ball, rebounding it, and holding onto it in traffic. On the latter you can clearly see teams are punching at the ball when he drives because he has so much trouble with it. He can't handle it like a point guard, but most of the problem comes when he stops to gather and go up. That's not his handle.
But it's still a problem.
Not from my coaches eye it isn't. Not from a wing player. He has terrible hands. He probably dribbles better than Butler does.
I guess I'm not seeing the forest through the trees on this one?
If he's unable to do certain things on a basketball court that the top players do... whether it's for a lack of handles or poor hands... it's a problem.
It's like me saying the only reason I'm not nailing Scarlett Johansson on the sly this weekend is because of my bad hearing... when it's really because of penis size. In the end, I'm not nailing her either way, so who cares.
I thought you meant "but the handle is a problem". Yes, you're absolutely correct - bad hands is a problem in basketball.
WolvesFan21 wrote:If we could get a good return for Wiggins I'd jump on it. For me, it's hard to watch guys who can't shoot at a reasonable percentage but get lauded because they can dunk once in a while. Wiggins is above average around the rim, but beyond that he's a poor offensive player. His passing is OK, his handle is bad.
He hasn't trended up but down this year too shooting. That's an issue if this team wants to realistically contend IF he doesn't at least get to avg numbers considering the money he will be getting.
It really isn't his handle that is so bad. I think that's a misnomer. It's his hands that are the problem. They affect him catching the ball, rebounding it, and holding onto it in traffic. On the latter you can clearly see teams are punching at the ball when he drives because he has so much trouble with it. He can't handle it like a point guard, but most of the problem comes when he stops to gather and go up. That's not his handle.
I'd say it's both but yes his hands have to be the worst in the league for a non center. It's hard to watch. Thats most likely why the rotation and release changes from game to game.
Q12543 wrote:Wiggins has played better in the playoffs than the regular season, but the bar is fairly low. Here are his playoff numbers using a few well-respected metrics:
TS% - 54% (good for Wiggins, barely average in today's NBA, keeps missing too many FTs)
PER - 14.3 (about average)
WS/48 - .054 (below average)
Net Rating -13.3 (only Teague's is worse)
.....and this is from our "best" player in the playoffs. Not good enough.
How about Otto Porter?
TS% - 60%
PER - 18.1
WS/48 - .161
Net Rating -.1
Or Joe Ingles?
TS% - 62%
PER - 14.4
WS/48 - .141
Net Rating +22.2
Or OG Anunoby?
TS% - 80% (!)
PER - 18.9
WS/48 - .215
Net Rating +4.6
It's all small sample sizes, but I don't see anything particularly special in terms of what Wiggins has done. In fact, it's decidedly meh.
The 3rd quarter last game destroyed
net ratings this series for our starters. That would need weeks of basketball to correct. Wiggins has significantly more responsibilities on the court than Ingles and OG so they aren't proper comparisons. His two way play was a major reason we won game 3 and why game 1 was even a game at all. Sometimes you just have to watch the games to see the impact and not always look at the stat sheet when just a quarter can skew those stats for a series good or bad.
Q12543 wrote:Wiggins has played better in the playoffs than the regular season, but the bar is fairly low. Here are his playoff numbers using a few well-respected metrics:
TS% - 54% (good for Wiggins, barely average in today's NBA, keeps missing too many FTs)
PER - 14.3 (about average)
WS/48 - .054 (below average)
Net Rating -13.3 (only Teague's is worse)
.....and this is from our "best" player in the playoffs. Not good enough.
How about Otto Porter?
TS% - 60%
PER - 18.1
WS/48 - .161
Net Rating -.1
Or Joe Ingles?
TS% - 62%
PER - 14.4
WS/48 - .141
Net Rating +22.2
Or OG Anunoby?
TS% - 80% (!)
PER - 18.9
WS/48 - .215
Net Rating +4.6
It's all small sample sizes, but I don't see anything particularly special in terms of what Wiggins has done. In fact, it's decidedly meh.
The 3rd quarter last game destroyed
net ratings this series for our starters. That would need weeks of basketball to correct. Wiggins has significantly more responsibilities on the court than Ingles and OG so they aren't proper comparisons. His two way play was a major reason we won game 3 and why game 1 was even a game at all. Sometimes you just have to watch the games to see the impact and not always look at the stat sheet when just a quarter can skew those stats for a series good or bad.
