monsterpile wrote:Good for Chicago and Dunn that He is having success there. His assists are up and he seems to be playing better but It's worth mentioning how good Mirotic has been since coming back. It's been HUGE for that team. Also Dunn's 3point percentage has dropped off a cliff after a really hot start. I wonder what kind of numbers Tyus would put up if he was in a similar situation to Dunn in Chicago.
Like Canuck said I like Wiggins long term because of his possible effect on defense. I've been encouraged and intruiged by his ability to guard some young dynamic PFs in Lyles and Kuzma in a couple recent games. If he can actually end up guarding some PFs for a worthwhile chunk of minutes down the line that will add to his value. I like that Wiggins allows Butler to be versatile defensively. If Lavine was heat long term Butler would be playing SF and be the wing defender every game.
A couple of thoughts. First, if we had dealt Wiggins for Butler, we'd have Dunn as well as LaVine and presumably we wouldn't have Teague. We'd also have around $16 million in cap space to acquire another wing. Dunn would be a huge upgrade defensively over Teague. And we'd have some other wing starting alongside Butler. Wiggins right now is a very poor defender. So hard to do worse defensively with whoever we would have signed. And who knows, we might have signed Thabo and that would be a huge defensive upgrade over Wiggins.
These hypotheticals get complicated. I've said this before but I highly doubt Thibs goes into next season with 2 young PGs and Dunn he played at SG quite a bit late in the season. It seems they would have looked to sign someone as a vet PG that was something better than Aaron Brooks. Maybe they sign Collison or get in on the deal for Corey Joseph. That would cut into that money spent on Teague to spend on a wing which obviously would have been an even higher priority but also we would have had a short term opportunity that would have been appealing to some guys.
Collision signed for $10 million per year. That probably would have left enough to sign CJ Miles. But maybe Thibs would have gone with Dunn and Tyus. Maybe Aaron Brooks would have been enough veteran insurance for him to do that. Hard to know. I'm just using hindsight and looking back it's clear to me that we'd be better of with Dunn and Zach rather than Wiggins. I love the idea of pairing Jimmy and Dunn defensively. Wiggins becoming a decent much less good defender is quite hypothetical. :)
monsterpile wrote:Good for Chicago and Dunn that He is having success there. His assists are up and he seems to be playing better but It's worth mentioning how good Mirotic has been since coming back. It's been HUGE for that team. Also Dunn's 3point percentage has dropped off a cliff after a really hot start. I wonder what kind of numbers Tyus would put up if he was in a similar situation to Dunn in Chicago.
Like Canuck said I like Wiggins long term because of his possible effect on defense. I've been encouraged and intruiged by his ability to guard some young dynamic PFs in Lyles and Kuzma in a couple recent games. If he can actually end up guarding some PFs for a worthwhile chunk of minutes down the line that will add to his value. I like that Wiggins allows Butler to be versatile defensively. If Lavine was heat long term Butler would be playing SF and be the wing defender every game.
A couple of thoughts. First, if we had dealt Wiggins for Butler, we'd have Dunn as well as LaVine and presumably we wouldn't have Teague. We'd also have around $16 million in cap space to acquire another wing. Dunn would be a huge upgrade defensively over Teague. And we'd have some other wing starting alongside Butler. Wiggins right now is a very poor defender. So hard to do worse defensively with whoever we would have signed. And who knows, we might have signed Thabo and that would be a huge defensive upgrade over Wiggins.
These hypotheticals get complicated. I've said this before but I highly doubt Thibs goes into next season with 2 young PGs and Dunn he played at SG quite a bit late in the season. It seems they would have looked to sign someone as a vet PG that was something better than Aaron Brooks. Maybe they sign Collison or get in on the deal for Corey Joseph. That would cut into that money spent on Teague to spend on a wing which obviously would have been an even higher priority but also we would have had a short term opportunity that would have been appealing to some guys.
Collision signed for $10 million per year. That probably would have left enough to sign CJ Miles. But maybe Thibs would have gone with Dunn and Tyus. Maybe Aaron Brooks would have been enough veteran insurance for him to do that. Hard to know. I'm just using hindsight and looking back it's clear to me that we'd be better of with Dunn and Zach rather than Wiggins. I love the idea of pairing Jimmy and Dunn defensively. Wiggins becoming a decent much less good defender is quite hypothetical. :)
Collison was a guy a few of us thought would have been a good solid bridge PG. he is having a nice season better than basically anyone expected him to have on both sides of the balll. Credit to him and Indiana considering it seems like the league didn't value him very highly. He has had some issues including being suspended and staying healthy but yeah.
People differ on Wiggins defense this season. We didn't need to debate that.
I think we can agree that regardless of what we would or wouldn't have done Thibs put together a pretty good top end of the roster this year and probably going forward. What remains to be seen is if they can make those small deals or identify and develop talents like the good franchises do to fill out the roster. People are getting excited about Dunn and to some extent rightly so but I think it's a little too early to proclaim him a piece going forward even as a solid starter. Some of his issues that were problems still remain and remember I was a guy that hadn't given up on him being a solid player going into this offseason.
monsterpile wrote:Good for Chicago and Dunn that He is having success there. His assists are up and he seems to be playing better but It's worth mentioning how good Mirotic has been since coming back. It's been HUGE for that team. Also Dunn's 3point percentage has dropped off a cliff after a really hot start. I wonder what kind of numbers Tyus would put up if he was in a similar situation to Dunn in Chicago.
Like Canuck said I like Wiggins long term because of his possible effect on defense. I've been encouraged and intruiged by his ability to guard some young dynamic PFs in Lyles and Kuzma in a couple recent games. If he can actually end up guarding some PFs for a worthwhile chunk of minutes down the line that will add to his value. I like that Wiggins allows Butler to be versatile defensively. If Lavine was heat long term Butler would be playing SF and be the wing defender every game.
A couple of thoughts. First, if we had dealt Wiggins for Butler, we'd have Dunn as well as LaVine and presumably we wouldn't have Teague. We'd also have around $16 million in cap space to acquire another wing. Dunn would be a huge upgrade defensively over Teague. And we'd have some other wing starting alongside Butler. Wiggins right now is a very poor defender. So hard to do worse defensively with whoever we would have signed. And who knows, we might have signed Thabo and that would be a huge defensive upgrade over Wiggins.
These hypotheticals get complicated. I've said this before but I highly doubt Thibs goes into next season with 2 young PGs and Dunn he played at SG quite a bit late in the season. It seems they would have looked to sign someone as a vet PG that was something better than Aaron Brooks. Maybe they sign Collison or get in on the deal for Corey Joseph. That would cut into that money spent on Teague to spend on a wing which obviously would have been an even higher priority but also we would have had a short term opportunity that would have been appealing to some guys.
Collision signed for $10 million per year. That probably would have left enough to sign CJ Miles. But maybe Thibs would have gone with Dunn and Tyus. Maybe Aaron Brooks would have been enough veteran insurance for him to do that. Hard to know. I'm just using hindsight and looking back it's clear to me that we'd be better of with Dunn and Zach rather than Wiggins. I love the idea of pairing Jimmy and Dunn defensively. Wiggins becoming a decent much less good defender is quite hypothetical. :)
Collison was a guy a few of us thought would have been a good solid bridge PG. he is having a nice season better than basically anyone expected him to have on both sides of the balll. Credit to him and Indiana considering it seems like the league didn't value him very highly. He has had some issues including being suspended and staying healthy but yeah.
People differ on Wiggins defense this season. We didn't need to debate that.
I think we can agree that regardless of what we would or wouldn't have done Thibs put together a pretty good top end of the roster this year and probably going forward. What remains to be seen is if they can make those small deals or identify and develop talents like the good franchises do to fill out the roster. People are getting excited about Dunn and to some extent rightly so but I think it's a little too early to proclaim him a piece going forward even as a solid starter. Some of his issues that were problems still remain and remember I was a guy that hadn't given up on him being a solid player going into this offseason.
I agree that Thibs did a nice job building the top end of our roster as PBO last summer. I can quibble with things he did or didn't do, but I give him pretty high marks in his executive role. I agree with you, however, that the true test for him as PBO will be whether he can make those small or under-the-radar moves you see the top GMs make. Imagine, for example, if Thibs had drafted Kuzma instead of Patton. Who knows, maybe MGH or Anthony Brown will end up emerging as important contributors to this team.
monsterpile wrote:Good for Chicago and Dunn that He is having success there. His assists are up and he seems to be playing better but It's worth mentioning how good Mirotic has been since coming back. It's been HUGE for that team. Also Dunn's 3point percentage has dropped off a cliff after a really hot start. I wonder what kind of numbers Tyus would put up if he was in a similar situation to Dunn in Chicago.
Like Canuck said I like Wiggins long term because of his possible effect on defense. I've been encouraged and intruiged by his ability to guard some young dynamic PFs in Lyles and Kuzma in a couple recent games. If he can actually end up guarding some PFs for a worthwhile chunk of minutes down the line that will add to his value. I like that Wiggins allows Butler to be versatile defensively. If Lavine was heat long term Butler would be playing SF and be the wing defender every game.
A couple of thoughts. First, if we had dealt Wiggins for Butler, we'd have Dunn as well as LaVine and presumably we wouldn't have Teague. We'd also have around $16 million in cap space to acquire another wing. Dunn would be a huge upgrade defensively over Teague. And we'd have some other wing starting alongside Butler. Wiggins right now is a very poor defender. So hard to do worse defensively with whoever we would have signed. And who knows, we might have signed Thabo and that would be a huge defensive upgrade over Wiggins.
These hypotheticals get complicated. I've said this before but I highly doubt Thibs goes into next season with 2 young PGs and Dunn he played at SG quite a bit late in the season. It seems they would have looked to sign someone as a vet PG that was something better than Aaron Brooks. Maybe they sign Collison or get in on the deal for Corey Joseph. That would cut into that money spent on Teague to spend on a wing which obviously would have been an even higher priority but also we would have had a short term opportunity that would have been appealing to some guys.
Collision signed for $10 million per year. That probably would have left enough to sign CJ Miles. But maybe Thibs would have gone with Dunn and Tyus. Maybe Aaron Brooks would have been enough veteran insurance for him to do that. Hard to know. I'm just using hindsight and looking back it's clear to me that we'd be better of with Dunn and Zach rather than Wiggins. I love the idea of pairing Jimmy and Dunn defensively. Wiggins becoming a decent much less good defender is quite hypothetical. :)
Collison was a guy a few of us thought would have been a good solid bridge PG. he is having a nice season better than basically anyone expected him to have on both sides of the balll. Credit to him and Indiana considering it seems like the league didn't value him very highly. He has had some issues including being suspended and staying healthy but yeah.
People differ on Wiggins defense this season. We didn't need to debate that.
I think we can agree that regardless of what we would or wouldn't have done Thibs put together a pretty good top end of the roster this year and probably going forward. What remains to be seen is if they can make those small deals or identify and develop talents like the good franchises do to fill out the roster. People are getting excited about Dunn and to some extent rightly so but I think it's a little too early to proclaim him a piece going forward even as a solid starter. Some of his issues that were problems still remain and remember I was a guy that hadn't given up on him being a solid player going into this offseason.
I agree that Thibs did a nice job building the top end of our roster as PBO last summer. I can quibble with things he did or didn't do, but I give him pretty high marks in his executive role. I agree with you, however, that the true test for him as PBO will be whether he can make those small or under-the-radar moves you see the top GMs make. Imagine, for example, if Thibs had drafted Kuzma instead of Patton. Who knows, maybe MGH or Anthony Brown will end up emerging as important contributors to this team.
Exactly. And Patton becoming a worthwhile player plus whoever we pick int he upcoming drafts including that OKC pick would help also. We forget that it's stil the 2nd year on the job for Thibs and Layden and it's the first year of having a developmental team. Other franchises have really gotten some pretty worthwhile development from that. We need to have that be part of what we can do. I like that Thibs at least seems to think MGH can play some defense at end of quarter situations and puts him in there.
The Celtics beat the Rockets tonight by 1 without one of their starting wings, Jaylen Brown. Can't say enough about the job Ainge and Brad Stevens have done. They started the season losing their prize free agent acquisition in a terrible season-ending injury and have played the last several games without Jaylen Brown. Yet, they're still in first place in the East, getting signature wins like the one last night even when short-handed.
Ainge has accumulated assets and used them well. He appears to have gotten the best player in this year's draft - Tatum - and fleeced the Sixers in the process by getting what will likely be the Kings 2019 1st round pick -- likely a high lottery pick. He drafted Brown last year and he used the Net's first round pick as the lure to get an elite PG named Kyrie Irving. Then consider the "under-the radar" or less newsworthy moves like drafting Smart and Rozier among other things. Finally, there was his decision to hire Brad Stevens.
Stevens probably makes Ainge's player acquisitions look better than they otherwise would. Consider Kyrie Irving for example. He's always been considered a poor defender, but his defensive metrics are way up under Stevens. And while Ainge should certainly get lots of credit for drafting Tatum and Brown, it's hard to know how much of what we're seeing from those two stems from how they are being coached.
The Spurs still strike me as the best run franchise in the NBA -- from the front office to the coaching staff. The Rockets and Warriors are also impressive. But the Celtics are right there and may actually be the best.
lipoli390 wrote:The Celtics beat the Rockets tonight by 1 without one of their starting wings, Jaylen Brown. Can't say enough about the job Ainge and Brad Stevens have done. They started the season losing their prize free agent acquisition in a terrible season-ending injury and have played the last several games without Jaylen Brown. Yet, they're still in first place in the East, getting signature wins like the one last night even when short-handed.
Ainge has accumulated assets and used them well. He appears to have gotten the best player in this year's draft - Tatum - and fleeced the Sixers in the process by getting what will likely be the Kings 2019 1st round pick -- likely a high lottery pick. He drafted Brown last year and he used the Net's first round pick as the lure to get an elite PG named Kyrie Irving. Then consider the "under-the radar" or less newsworthy moves like drafting Smart and Rozier among other things. Finally, there was his decision to hire Brad Stevens.
Stevens probably makes Ainge's player acquisitions look better than they otherwise would. Consider Kyrie Irving for example. He's always been considered a poor defender, but his defensive metrics are way up under Stevens. And while Ainge should certainly get lots of credit for drafting Tatum and Brown, it's hard to know how much of what we're seeing from those two stems from how they are being coached.
The Spurs still strike me as the best run franchise in the NBA -- from the front office to the coaching staff. The Rockets and Warriors are also impressive. But the Celtics are right there and may actually be the best.
The Celtics came back from 26 down in that one.
To be fair... Houston was without Chris Paul. So that might have more than evened up the injury excuses...
lipoli390 wrote:The Celtics beat the Rockets tonight by 1 without one of their starting wings, Jaylen Brown. Can't say enough about the job Ainge and Brad Stevens have done. They started the season losing their prize free agent acquisition in a terrible season-ending injury and have played the last several games without Jaylen Brown. Yet, they're still in first place in the East, getting signature wins like the one last night even when short-handed.
Ainge has accumulated assets and used them well. He appears to have gotten the best player in this year's draft - Tatum - and fleeced the Sixers in the process by getting what will likely be the Kings 2019 1st round pick -- likely a high lottery pick. He drafted Brown last year and he used the Net's first round pick as the lure to get an elite PG named Kyrie Irving. Then consider the "under-the radar" or less newsworthy moves like drafting Smart and Rozier among other things. Finally, there was his decision to hire Brad Stevens.
Stevens probably makes Ainge's player acquisitions look better than they otherwise would. Consider Kyrie Irving for example. He's always been considered a poor defender, but his defensive metrics are way up under Stevens. And while Ainge should certainly get lots of credit for drafting Tatum and Brown, it's hard to know how much of what we're seeing from those two stems from how they are being coached.
The Spurs still strike me as the best run franchise in the NBA -- from the front office to the coaching staff. The Rockets and Warriors are also impressive. But the Celtics are right there and may actually be the best.
The Celtics came back from 26 down in that one.
To be fair... Houston was without Chris Paul. So that might have more than evened up the injury excuses...
They also signed Gerald Green hours before the game and played him because they had been playing guys like Ariza a boatload of minutes. They were also playing without Capela.
I can't believe Lip didn't mention Ainge's latest brilliant move making a trade at the g-league level to get Anthony Bennett on the Maine Red Claws. :)
"We try to emphasize that, try to get it in the paint, try to kick it out to guys. I think sometimes we get in there and say, 'Okay, I got an 8-footer.' But teams that get a lot of 3s, they say, 'I don't want the 8-footer, I want to kick it out for a 3.' So we have to do a better job of that."
