Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)

[AbeVigodaLive]

It doesn't help our wing situation, but Blake Griffin should be a trade target for this team. Obviously, we all love Taj Gibson and the "dirty work" that he does on a nightly basis, but adding another in-his-prime star could really take this team up a notch. Of course, Andrew Wiggins would be the trade chip (and probably more), but Griffin did just sign a new deal so he'd be here for a minimum of three more years (player option on the fourth).

Griffin just can't stay healthy (it's a shame) and that's kind of a deal breaker for me.

Yeah, durability's a legitimate concern, but the guy's a bonafide star in this league, arguably the best power forward when healthy, with no real weaknesses in his game, though his defense could be better. Also, for those that want the Wolves to push the pace, having a big that's can grab a rebound and handle the basketball in transition is a game-changer -- LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Ben Simmons, etc.

Yeah he would be a nice player but it's tough when the guy won't have played more than 68 games (assuming he misses no more games this year) in a season since 2013-2014 and isn't getting younger. It's a risky deal and I don't even know if the Clippers are seriously looking to move him. It's a deal for the offseason (because Wiggins basically can't be dealt this year) anyway and both teams will have a better idea where their direction is.

That's the rub.

Griffin has very real flaws that may make that contract seem terrible.
Wiggins has very real flaws that may make that contract seem terrible.

I don't know if Griffin is the right target or not... but that sort of player is probably best-case scenario for a Wiggins trade right now. So then the question becomes whether it's better to hold out (more) hope for Wiggins to figure things out.

Personally, my feelings are clear... he's not going to figure things out. HERE. Sometimes, it just takes a change of scenery, new voices and probably 1,000 other factors for players to realize their potential. It's a frustrating development for the Wolves organizations and its fans. But we're 3.5 seasons in and new coaches, new roles, new contracts, new expectations, new teammates, new reasons to believe this team is a playoff team, etc. hasn't changed the narrative or scouting report on Wiggins.

He is what he is. That doesn't make him a terrible player. But it does make him extremely frustrating to watch... and soon-to-be ridiculously overpaid.

_________________________

So back to other teams in the league:

What other "realistic" targets are out there, sans Griffin?

Mike Conley? (if the Grizzlies decide to start over...)
Harrison Barnes? (as crazy as it sounds... Barnes has the BETTER contract. The players are reasonably close statistically)
Hassan Whiteside? (Personally, I don't like any deal for a center. I think KAT must be the center moving forward and using him as PF negates his uniqueness.)
Tyson Chandler and whatever young prospect(s) Phoenix likes the least? (Chriss? Bender? J. Jackson? Not a huge fan of this move either.)

I'm not advocating for any of these moves. I'm just trying to figure out what semi-reasonable options are out there.

Wiggins is 22 it's not an absolute certainty he doesn't get better either. I bet there are teams right now that right or wrong are looking at Olidipo and thinking they can get Wiggins and have a terrific player. I think the idea that he won't get better is a valid position BUT it's not a certainty. You mention Harrison Barnes. Remember when that guy struggled in the playoffs and various people thought he wasn't worth his contract? What if Wiggins becomes that good? Sure Barnes is signed to a cheaper contract...but he has a player option in 2019-2020. So you may only get him for another year and then what? Let's see how the rest of the year plays out with Wiggins. There have been some positive signs defensively which was a bigger flaw to his game than his offensive ones.

Hence... the HERE part in my post.

You're right. There are times when guys turn around their careers when the vast majority just stagnate. But both of the guys you mentioned didn't do it with the original team.

Heck, "wrong player/wrong team" isn't all Wiggins' fault either. 41 games doesn't excuse the fact that this organization has been the absolute worst this side of Donald Sterling. And Taylor remains at the helm. So maybe Wiggins flourishes under a new regime. I'm not saying it's impossible... at all.

I just don't see anything developing in Minnesota to get the very most of Andrew Wiggins. And that's unfortunate for the organization and its fans.

[thedoper]

I want to see Wiggins respond to a playoff series before making any decision moving him. We are winning, going to get a playoff seed, and that is going to be the most important test. All of the other problematic players have had the opportunity to test the theories of their deficiencies in the playoffs, we'd be foolish to try and move Wiggins before evaluating how he responds to the most important hurdle in his development. Plus selling low is never a good idea. I know some will say it can get worse, and his value could diminish. But there will always be a Toronto deal on the table as I see it. Canadian Nationalism can't be understated in this case.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I want to see Wiggins respond to a playoff series before making any decision moving him. We are winning, going to get a playoff seed, and that is going to be the most important test. All of the other problematic players have had the opportunity to test the theories of their deficiencies in the playoffs, we'd be foolish to try and move Wiggins before evaluating how he responds to the most important hurdle in his development. Plus selling low is never a good idea. I know some will say it can get worse, and his value could diminish. But there will always be a Toronto deal on the table as I see it. Canadian Nationalism can't be understated in this case.

Can you imagine the stat nerds heads' exploding in unison the moment DeRozan and Wiggins take the floor together?

Make this happen. Please.

[thedoper]

I want to see Wiggins respond to a playoff series before making any decision moving him. We are winning, going to get a playoff seed, and that is going to be the most important test. All of the other problematic players have had the opportunity to test the theories of their deficiencies in the playoffs, we'd be foolish to try and move Wiggins before evaluating how he responds to the most important hurdle in his development. Plus selling low is never a good idea. I know some will say it can get worse, and his value could diminish. But there will always be a Toronto deal on the table as I see it. Canadian Nationalism can't be understated in this case.

Can you imagine the stat nerds heads' exploding in unison the moment DeRozan and Wiggins take the floor together?

Make this happen. Please.

It won't happen right away. We'd probably get like an old DeRozan or Lowry in a few years. But the Canadian media is crazy nationalistic. And the company that owns the Raptors knows that they are going to make money playing to nostalgia as much as they would in winning. This is the Maple Leafs brain trust after all. Bringing an athletic Toronto kid home would score huge points. I also think it is what Wiggins may want for himself long term.

[Monster]

It doesn't help our wing situation, but Blake Griffin should be a trade target for this team. Obviously, we all love Taj Gibson and the "dirty work" that he does on a nightly basis, but adding another in-his-prime star could really take this team up a notch. Of course, Andrew Wiggins would be the trade chip (and probably more), but Griffin did just sign a new deal so he'd be here for a minimum of three more years (player option on the fourth).

Griffin just can't stay healthy (it's a shame) and that's kind of a deal breaker for me.

Yeah, durability's a legitimate concern, but the guy's a bonafide star in this league, arguably the best power forward when healthy, with no real weaknesses in his game, though his defense could be better. Also, for those that want the Wolves to push the pace, having a big that's can grab a rebound and handle the basketball in transition is a game-changer -- LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Ben Simmons, etc.

Yeah he would be a nice player but it's tough when the guy won't have played more than 68 games (assuming he misses no more games this year) in a season since 2013-2014 and isn't getting younger. It's a risky deal and I don't even know if the Clippers are seriously looking to move him. It's a deal for the offseason (because Wiggins basically can't be dealt this year) anyway and both teams will have a better idea where their direction is.

That's the rub.

Griffin has very real flaws that may make that contract seem terrible.
Wiggins has very real flaws that may make that contract seem terrible.

I don't know if Griffin is the right target or not... but that sort of player is probably best-case scenario for a Wiggins trade right now. So then the question becomes whether it's better to hold out (more) hope for Wiggins to figure things out.

Personally, my feelings are clear... he's not going to figure things out. HERE. Sometimes, it just takes a change of scenery, new voices and probably 1,000 other factors for players to realize their potential. It's a frustrating development for the Wolves organizations and its fans. But we're 3.5 seasons in and new coaches, new roles, new contracts, new expectations, new teammates, new reasons to believe this team is a playoff team, etc. hasn't changed the narrative or scouting report on Wiggins.

He is what he is. That doesn't make him a terrible player. But it does make him extremely frustrating to watch... and soon-to-be ridiculously overpaid.

_________________________

So back to other teams in the league:

What other "realistic" targets are out there, sans Griffin?

Mike Conley? (if the Grizzlies decide to start over...)
Harrison Barnes? (as crazy as it sounds... Barnes has the BETTER contract. The players are reasonably close statistically)
Hassan Whiteside? (Personally, I don't like any deal for a center. I think KAT must be the center moving forward and using him as PF negates his uniqueness.)
Tyson Chandler and whatever young prospect(s) Phoenix likes the least? (Chriss? Bender? J. Jackson? Not a huge fan of this move either.)

I'm not advocating for any of these moves. I'm just trying to figure out what semi-reasonable options are out there.

Wiggins is 22 it's not an absolute certainty he doesn't get better either. I bet there are teams right now that right or wrong are looking at Olidipo and thinking they can get Wiggins and have a terrific player. I think the idea that he won't get better is a valid position BUT it's not a certainty. You mention Harrison Barnes. Remember when that guy struggled in the playoffs and various people thought he wasn't worth his contract? What if Wiggins becomes that good? Sure Barnes is signed to a cheaper contract...but he has a player option in 2019-2020. So you may only get him for another year and then what? Let's see how the rest of the year plays out with Wiggins. There have been some positive signs defensively which was a bigger flaw to his game than his offensive ones.

Hence... the HERE part in my post.

You're right. There are times when guys turn around their careers when the vast majority just stagnate. But both of the guys you mentioned didn't do it with the original team.

Heck, "wrong player/wrong team" isn't all Wiggins' fault either. 41 games doesn't excuse the fact that this organization has been the absolute worst this side of Donald Sterling. And Taylor remains at the helm. So maybe Wiggins flourishes under a new regime. I'm not saying it's impossible... at all.

I just don't see anything developing in Minnesota to get the very most of Andrew Wiggins. And that's unfortunate for the organization and its fans.

That's a pretty good and fair angle Abe. I'll say this though to continue the conversation look at the Wolves the way they are constructed. Who is the #3 guy that isn't Wiggins? (Yes Wiggins could be used to get another guy) Sure people say Teague needs the ball and what not. This team isn't going out of their way to make things work for Jeff Teague it's Teague's job as a PG and a vet to make things work with other players. I get it Wiggins as he is right now isn't exactly a complimentary offensive player and it does make sense to consider he doesn't work out here. Again that's not certain. The more I have watched Wiggins recently I see him maybe trending in that Harrison Barnes type who is really more of a 3-4 guy than a true wing. Yes Wiggins lack of rebounding prowess is a problem if he is playing the 4 but it looks more and more like he can defend more of those guys and I've been surprised at that. My point is that there is probably still a spot here for Wiggins to get plenty of shots and touches as the 3rd banana and to some extent oddly it seems like he actually can live with that to a certain extent especially a guy that doesn't care about the spotlight stuff.

The reality of Wiggins is that his 3 point shooting is the biggest deal. If he starts being able to knock them down at some sort of decent consistent rate it changes everything. If someone isn't willing to bank on that I TOTALLY get that. I don't know where I would be at if My job depended on Wiggins taking and making 3's or developing in general but it's not completely crazy to still have hope. Like it's been said about the Vikings QB situation this year as a GM you often don't make a decision till you have to. Wiggins basically can't be traded till after this season. Let's see if he makes any type of progress the next half season and like it's been mentioned even the playoffs. It would be nice either way you lean for him to show more either to keep him or move him in a deal.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I guess I'm just approaching the stage where I'd rather roll the dice on a 28-year old Blake Griffin and his health rather than the significant improvements needed from Wiggins to become a prevalent player in the league.

Two things are certain.

1. Andrew Wiggins, if nothing else, is very durable through his first 3.5 seasons and is somehow still just 22-years old. And that definitely matters.

2. When healthy, Blake Griffin is an absolute star in the NBA. And while there's a ton of blossoming talent throughout the league, he is without question one of the elite at his position.

This is just me, but I'd rather have 68 games -- or whatever the number was -- of Blake Griffin over the season than 82 of Andrew Wiggins, and that's while acknowledging the high ceiling and youth he possesses. It's primarily because Griffin is so damn good and well-rounded. Alternatively, I don't think Wiggins will ever come close to reaching his potential.

[thedoper]

I guess I'm just approaching the stage where I'd rather roll the dice on a 28-year old Blake Griffin and his health rather than the significant improvements needed from Wiggins to become a prevalent player in the league.

Two things are certain.

1. Andrew Wiggins, if nothing else, is very durable through his first 3.5 seasons and is somehow still just 22-years old. And that definitely matters.

2. When healthy, Blake Griffin is an absolute star in the NBA. And while there's a ton of blossoming talent throughout the league, he is without question one of the elite at his position.

This is just me, but I'd rather have 68 games -- or whatever the number was -- of Blake Griffin over the season than 82 of Andrew Wiggins, and that's while acknowledging the high ceiling and youth he possesses. It's primarily because Griffin is so damn good and well-rounded. Alternatively, I don't think Wiggins will ever come close to reaching his potential.

Talent for talent Griffin is better at present but I am racking my brain trying to think of a deal for a player as injury prone as Griffin that worked out well for the team acquiring that player. History compels me to believe that deal would be horrible for us. We are way better off with Wiggins and need to see the kid in a playoff series.

[Monster]

I guess I'm just approaching the stage where I'd rather roll the dice on a 28-year old Blake Griffin and his health rather than the significant improvements needed from Wiggins to become a prevalent player in the league.

Two things are certain.

1. Andrew Wiggins, if nothing else, is very durable through his first 3.5 seasons and is somehow still just 22-years old. And that definitely matters.

2. When healthy, Blake Griffin is an absolute star in the NBA. And while there's a ton of blossoming talent throughout the league, he is without question one of the elite at his position.

This is just me, but I'd rather have 68 games -- or whatever the number was -- of Blake Griffin over the season than 82 of Andrew Wiggins, and that's while acknowledging the high ceiling and youth he possesses. It's primarily because Griffin is so damn good and well-rounded. Alternatively, I don't think Wiggins will ever come close to reaching his potential.

Talent for talent Griffin is better at present but I am racking my brain trying to think of a deal for a player as injury prone as Griffin that worked out well for the team acquiring that player. History compels me to believe that deal would be horrible for us. We are way better off with Wiggins and need to see the kid in a playoff series.

Cam makes a strong case. I'll add to what you said doper that I worry about having a player with that injury history available when it really matters...the playoffs gives. Cam makes his case based on the feeling Wiggins won't reach anywhere near his potential and he has presented the other side of that. Many times we do these hypothetical deals or don't do them based on how we value one player or another one. I always try to remember Cam has more of a go big or go home lens when looking at what he would do. I tend to be more conservative. It's good to have different perspectives and walk through what we might do.

As for injury guys...Eric Gordon is a guy that's seemingly put his injury issues behind him and has been big for the Rockets. He is getting paid a nice amount but obviously was discounted because of his injury history and is basically a bargain if he keeps staying healthy. I'm not sure what the level of risk the Rockets took signing him was.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Count me as iffy on Griffin vs. Wiggins. Part of it is Blake's injury history, but also wonder what kind of defender he is. Taj isn't elite, but he is very, very solid defensively and is really efficient offensively without needing a bunch of touches. Is Griffin a downgrade defensively and then what the hell do we do on the wing, where Crawford and Bazz are big downgrades defensively from Wiggins.

Yes, Griffin is more talented than Wiggins and the trade makes sense in a vacuum, but I'd have a hard time pulling the trigger given our current roster composition.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I want to see Wiggins respond to a playoff series before making any decision moving him. We are winning, going to get a playoff seed, and that is going to be the most important test. All of the other problematic players have had the opportunity to test the theories of their deficiencies in the playoffs, we'd be foolish to try and move Wiggins before evaluating how he responds to the most important hurdle in his development. Plus selling low is never a good idea. I know some will say it can get worse, and his value could diminish. But there will always be a Toronto deal on the table as I see it. Canadian Nationalism can't be understated in this case.

Wait.....so you are saying we don't really know what kind of player he is until the playoffs? Well, I guess it's good to know that he's been conserving his energy all this time, just so that we could see the REAL Andrew Wiggins in the playoffs after four years in the league.