Q12543 wrote:Don't be surprised if Thibs quietly tests the Wiggins marketplace this offseason, which is a little dicey since his play is not even close to his (future) contract value. But may be there is a team out there willing to part with some serious value in order to chase hope and potential. We need a guy that can shoot next to Butler.
This could be Q, but to me the only thing that makes sense would be a package to go after Leonard. There is definitely a problem between the Spurs and Kawhi. Wig might be a guy they could get a little excited about depending what else we could do to sweeten the pot. To me a Butler, KAT, Leonard threesome would be a contender, maybe in spite of the coach.
Q12543 wrote:Don't be surprised if Thibs quietly tests the Wiggins marketplace this offseason, which is a little dicey since his play is not even close to his (future) contract value. But may be there is a team out there willing to part with some serious value in order to chase hope and potential. We need a guy that can shoot next to Butler.
This could be Q, but to me the only thing that makes sense would be a package to go after Leonard. There is definitely a problem between the Spurs and Kawhi. Wig might be a guy they could get a little excited about depending what else we could do to sweeten the pot. To me a Butler, KAT, Leonard threesome would be a contender, maybe in spite of the coach.
I haven't really thought about other guys to go after. Leonard would be awesome, but my bar doesn't need to quite go that high. Hell, Josh Richardson is looking pretty good to me right about now!
Q12543 wrote:Don't be surprised if Thibs quietly tests the Wiggins marketplace this offseason, which is a little dicey since his play is not even close to his (future) contract value. But may be there is a team out there willing to part with some serious value in order to chase hope and potential. We need a guy that can shoot next to Butler.
This could be Q, but to me the only thing that makes sense would be a package to go after Leonard. There is definitely a problem between the Spurs and Kawhi. Wig might be a guy they could get a little excited about depending what else we could do to sweeten the pot. To me a Butler, KAT, Leonard threesome would be a contender, maybe in spite of the coach.
I haven't really thought about other guys to go after. Leonard would be awesome, but my bar doesn't need to quite go that high. Hell, Josh Richardson is looking pretty good to me right about now!
I could see something Like Wiggins/Aldrich/Patton for Bradley Beal and mahimmi.
Wizards are in no mans land. They are pretty much stuck with a angry Wall and a huge contract and he has been hurt so they might look to shake it up. The Trade gets them cap relief and young hurt player in Patton and Could be a stud in Wiggins. Beal and Wall hate each other. If we are trading Wiggins this summer. Beal and Leonard are the 2 guys are target.
BloopOracle wrote:"But what scares me most is what I've harped on repeatedly this year. If KAT and Wiggins keep getting rewarded (and given excuses) while being heaped with praise without much criticism... WHY would they do what they need to do to improve? Where's the incentive? I want more than hollow "nice-speak" from KAT after this series. It's gonna be Year 4 for him. And Year 5 for Wiggins."
This is why I am still happy making the playoffs even against Houston, Towns and Wiggins are getting consistently killed by the national media. They may very well flame out in the end anyway but at least they are FINALLY getting criticism instead of Hakeem comparisons and max contracts for empty stats.
I think we've seen a sharp U-turn in how Wiggins is perceived. He's been ripped often. And not always accurately either.
But I listened to a prominent NBA podcast on the commute to work today that railed on the strategy without blaming Towns. The one guy kept harping on "only 9 shots"
Well, Towns didn't play much and he took several really bad shots last night. Basically "give up" plays. Sure, some of that is because of where he is on the court. And part of that is him giving up and just launching.
[Note: Now granted, I think the heat on Thibs isn't a bad thing either. Something has to change with him, too. But if there's already a sense of entitlement with Towns... being excused for arguably the worst two playoff games for an All Star in NBA history... won't end well. Who knows. I'm sure he's frustrated and will be determined to learn/improve from it. That's our hope. We'll see how it pans out.]
I am guessing you were listening to Kevin O'bomber and company. It was interesting that they ripped Wiggins, saying he sucks but it was all thibs fault on towns
Just thought it was interesting that they destroyed Wiggins when he is putting up 15.5/7/2 on 46% shooting, playing solid defense. I think nobody would complain about Wiggins if those were his numbers if the other 2 stars would show up.
KAT needs to show up. Like you said Towns might of had the 2 worst games in NBA history to start your playoff career for an all nba player
Kek, what was their rationale for destroying Wiggins? He hasn't been great but he's been as good as anyone we've got. Just curious.
Same all stuff as always. "Wiggins takes bad shots, find me a advance stat that makes Wiggins an good NBA player. I think one day they will come up with a stat that makes wiggins look decent maybe one day. Wiggins does nothing besides score and he is not doing that well. "
Like Wiggins does deserve some ripping this year no doubt. But it is the typical group think like Abe stated. I Wiggins has been solid in my opinion this series. Probably our best player and that is not saying a lot. Just think if Wiggins would be putting up 15.5/7/2 on 46% shooting as the 3rd best player he would be worth the contract with his solid defense.
Q12543 wrote:Don't be surprised if Thibs quietly tests the Wiggins marketplace this offseason, which is a little dicey since his play is not even close to his (future) contract value. But may be there is a team out there willing to part with some serious value in order to chase hope and potential. We need a guy that can shoot next to Butler.
This could be Q, but to me the only thing that makes sense would be a package to go after Leonard. There is definitely a problem between the Spurs and Kawhi. Wig might be a guy they could get a little excited about depending what else we could do to sweeten the pot. To me a Butler, KAT, Leonard threesome would be a contender, maybe in spite of the coach.
Leonard scares. His injury situation is a big unknown. And this whole going to a bigger market to brand himself is another concern. Ignoring the team (officials and teammates) and basically shutting them out is another concern.
Many think if we win, he'll extend. But if he wanted to win, he'd never have left the spurs.
Q12543 wrote:Don't be surprised if Thibs quietly tests the Wiggins marketplace this offseason, which is a little dicey since his play is not even close to his (future) contract value. But may be there is a team out there willing to part with some serious value in order to chase hope and potential. We need a guy that can shoot next to Butler.
This could be Q, but to me the only thing that makes sense would be a package to go after Leonard. There is definitely a problem between the Spurs and Kawhi. Wig might be a guy they could get a little excited about depending what else we could do to sweeten the pot. To me a Butler, KAT, Leonard threesome would be a contender, maybe in spite of the coach.
I haven't really thought about other guys to go after. Leonard would be awesome, but my bar doesn't need to quite go that high. Hell, Josh Richardson is looking pretty good to me right about now!
I could see something Like Wiggins/Aldrich/Patton for Bradley Beal and mahimmi.
Wizards are in no mans land. They are pretty much stuck with a angry Wall and a huge contract and he has been hurt so they might look to shake it up. The Trade gets them cap relief and young hurt player in Patton and Could be a stud in Wiggins. Beal and Wall hate each other. If we are trading Wiggins this summer. Beal and Leonard are the 2 guys are target.
This team could be great with Leonard and I don't think it's unrealistic to think we could get him for Wiggins. But I'd be wary of Kawhi's health. He's coming off a season in which he played only 9 games because of a quad injury. We really don't know the extent to which his absence is health related. Yet, it goes well beyond this season. Kawhi has a history of missing lots of games. I believe he's missed an average of 17 games per season -- about the same average as Butler. So he was missing lots of games every season even before his quad injury. No telling whether the quad injury might be a recurring thing.
Your suggested deal for Beal is intriguing. I'm not even sure we'd have to give up Patton. I could see Wiggins and a 2nd round pick being enough. I wouldn't be willing to trade Wiggins for someone like Josh Richardson. I still have more than a sliver of hope that Wiggins will shine. It took until his 5th season for Oladipo to break through. Maybe next season will be the one for Wiggins.
Any wiggins trade has to bing in a durable wing player. If not, we could be running Teague,Crawford, Rose, Taj, and KAT for stretches throughout the season.
Q12543 wrote:Don't be surprised if Thibs quietly tests the Wiggins marketplace this offseason, which is a little dicey since his play is not even close to his (future) contract value. But may be there is a team out there willing to part with some serious value in order to chase hope and potential. We need a guy that can shoot next to Butler.
This could be Q, but to me the only thing that makes sense would be a package to go after Leonard. There is definitely a problem between the Spurs and Kawhi. Wig might be a guy they could get a little excited about depending what else we could do to sweeten the pot. To me a Butler, KAT, Leonard threesome would be a contender, maybe in spite of the coach.
I haven't really thought about other guys to go after. Leonard would be awesome, but my bar doesn't need to quite go that high. Hell, Josh Richardson is looking pretty good to me right about now!
I could see something Like Wiggins/Aldrich/Patton for Bradley Beal and mahimmi.
Wizards are in no mans land. They are pretty much stuck with a angry Wall and a huge contract and he has been hurt so they might look to shake it up. The Trade gets them cap relief and young hurt player in Patton and Could be a stud in Wiggins. Beal and Wall hate each other. If we are trading Wiggins this summer. Beal and Leonard are the 2 guys are target.
This team could be great with Leonard and I don't think it's unrealistic to think we could get him for Wiggins. But I'd be wary of Kawhi's health. He's coming off a season in which he played only 9 games because of a quad injury. We really don't know the extent to which his absence is health related. Yet, it goes well beyond this season. Kawhi has a history of missing lots of games. I believe he's missed an average of 17 games per season -- about the same average as Butler. So he was missing lots of games every season even before his quad injury. No telling whether the quad injury might be a recurring thing.
Your suggested deal for Beal is intriguing. I'm not even sure we'd have to give up Patton. I could see Wiggins and a 2nd round pick being enough. I wouldn't be willing to trade Wiggins for someone like Josh Richardson. I still have more than a sliver of hope that Wiggins will shine. It took until his 5th season for Oladipo to break through. Maybe next season will be the one for Wiggins.
Im also leery of aquiring Leonard because of the injury problems. Still if for some reason you could get him for basically Wiggins and some throw ins...you have to consider it.
The Wiggins for Beal deal would be interesting for the Wolves (looks like he has put his injuries behind him) but...why would the Wizards actually do it? I agree with the angle the Wizards need to figure out something different but the reason we would want Beal is why the Wizards would not want to do the deal for Wiggins. They need that 3 point shooting. The deal that probably makes more sense for both teams if that's the angle is Wiggins for Porter.
Ultimately I don't think a deal will happen for Wiggins because teams don't usually do the types of deals we have discussed and like I Lip you can't just sell low on Wiggins now. I don't think the Wolves will have to shop Wiggins I bet some teams will call and see what the price is on him. He is the 3rd banana and will be getting paid a lot of money and the Wolves are going to have to try and figure out their finances. There have been some unexpected deals so if you are another team you need to make that call. Starting level Wings are hard to find and guys with the length athleticism and ability to score don't come available very often. Sure you could say he is overpaid but would you rather overpay him or have a below average guy for a lot less? There is certainly potential left for Wiggins as well. These are all reasons the Wolves won't want to give him up either.
Q12543 wrote:Don't be surprised if Thibs quietly tests the Wiggins marketplace this offseason, which is a little dicey since his play is not even close to his (future) contract value. But may be there is a team out there willing to part with some serious value in order to chase hope and potential. We need a guy that can shoot next to Butler.
This could be Q, but to me the only thing that makes sense would be a package to go after Leonard. There is definitely a problem between the Spurs and Kawhi. Wig might be a guy they could get a little excited about depending what else we could do to sweeten the pot. To me a Butler, KAT, Leonard threesome would be a contender, maybe in spite of the coach.
I haven't really thought about other guys to go after. Leonard would be awesome, but my bar doesn't need to quite go that high. Hell, Josh Richardson is looking pretty good to me right about now!
I could see something Like Wiggins/Aldrich/Patton for Bradley Beal and mahimmi.
Wizards are in no mans land. They are pretty much stuck with a angry Wall and a huge contract and he has been hurt so they might look to shake it up. The Trade gets them cap relief and young hurt player in Patton and Could be a stud in Wiggins. Beal and Wall hate each other. If we are trading Wiggins this summer. Beal and Leonard are the 2 guys are target.
This team could be great with Leonard and I don't think it's unrealistic to think we could get him for Wiggins. But I'd be wary of Kawhi's health. He's coming off a season in which he played only 9 games because of a quad injury. We really don't know the extent to which his absence is health related. Yet, it goes well beyond this season. Kawhi has a history of missing lots of games. I believe he's missed an average of 17 games per season -- about the same average as Butler. So he was missing lots of games every season even before his quad injury. No telling whether the quad injury might be a recurring thing.
Your suggested deal for Beal is intriguing. I'm not even sure we'd have to give up Patton. I could see Wiggins and a 2nd round pick being enough. I wouldn't be willing to trade Wiggins for someone like Josh Richardson. I still have more than a sliver of hope that Wiggins will shine. It took until his 5th season for Oladipo to break through. Maybe next season will be the one for Wiggins.
Im also leery of aquiring Leonard because of the injury problems. Still if for some reason you could get him for basically Wiggins and some throw ins...you have to consider it.
The Wiggins for Beal deal would be interesting for the Wolves (looks like he has put his injuries behind him) but...why would the Wizards actually do it? I agree with the angle the Wizards need to figure out something different but the reason we would want Beal is why the Wizards would not want to do the deal for Wiggins. They need that 3 point shooting. The deal that probably makes more sense for both teams if that's the angle is Wiggins for Porter.
Ultimately I don't think a deal will happen for Wiggins because teams don't usually do the types of deals we have discussed and like I Lip you can't just sell low on Wiggins now. I don't think the Wolves will have to shop Wiggins I bet some teams will call and see what the price is on him. He is the 3rd banana and will be getting paid a lot of money and the Wolves are going to have to try and figure out their finances. There have been some unexpected deals so if you are another team you need to make that call. Starting level Wings are hard to find and guys with the length athleticism and ability to score don't come available very often. Sure you could say he is overpaid but would you rather overpay him or have a below average guy for a lot less? There is certainly potential left for Wiggins as well. These are all reasons the Wolves won't want to give him up either.
I think the reason the Wizards might do that deal is two-fold. First, I think they really want and need to deal Beal given the problems between him and Wall. Second, they appear to be stuck in no-man's land and need to make a bold move to get them over the hump. It depends on how much better the Wizards front office execs believe Wiggins can get. But your point about him being a poor fit for a Wizards team that needs 3-point shooting is a good one. On the other hand, they could perhaps improve their 3-point shooting through other moves. I agree that a Wiggins-Porter deal would be more likely. Would you do that deal if you were Thibs?
Bottom line is that we should not sell low on Wiggins for all the reasons you identified. I'm as frustrated by the Wolves this season as anyone. But this is not the time to panic with rash player-personnel moves. We have a talented roster and won 47 games this season. I don't think Thibs needs to be bold. We just needs to be smart.
