Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yes, it's maddening to say the least. As you might recall, I hated the "we're too young" narrative last season. The Thunder weren't too young when they won 50 games with a 3rd year player in Durant, a 2nd year player in Westbrook and a rookie named Harden before he was anything like he is today. I didn't expect the Wolves to make the playoffs last season, but I expected improvement and we saw very little if any. So this season, our record is significantly better with the addition of veterans Butler, Taj and Crawford, but we still have a bottom 5 defense and a stagnant office, which I maintain is part of why we have a poor defense. Yes, it says a lot about our two #1 picks and our head coach.

Are looking for Thibs or Layden to throw on a uniform and protect the paint! :o


I was reading an article that was covering George Hill, and how he doesn't seem to be a good fit in SAC. He signed a 3 year/57 mil deal similar to Teague's, but he doesn't have the PO at the end. I would love to see the wolves offer to swap Teague for him. That would certainly help our D, and he is a good 3pt shooter as well. SAC likely does it to reduce the contract term to 2 years, because they are developing Fox, and are already giving him significant minutes at PG.

The last year of Hill's contract is only guaranteed for 1 million. In addition he fits better next to Fox if the play together better than Teague would.

Where did you see that Monster? That would substantially reduce any reason for the trade.

Hill is almost exactly 2 years and 1 month older Cam, but is also a much more aggressive defender than Teague.

https://www.google.com/amp/nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/11/report-final-season-of-george-hills-kings-contract-just-1-million-guaranteed/amp/

It was also reported that he had no interest in coming here this summer.

Too bad, I am already tired of watching Teague float around guarding nobody. We already have two soft defenders in our lineup, we didn't need a third.

I share your frustration watching Teague defend (or not defend). Apparently, Hill didn't want to play for Thibs so that wasn't an option. I've become convinced that Taj is worth the 2-year $28 million deal Thibs gave him. But I'm equally convinced that Teague is not worth the 3-year $58 million deal he got from Thibs. If Thibs wanted a scoring PG he could have saved $9 million per year signing D. Collison - who's actually a better 3-point shooter than Teague.

My observation is that Teague picks his spots defensively. I've seen go in spurts fighting over screens and digging down to break up the pick and roll, but it's probably not as frequently as we need.

[Lipoli390]

It was a mixed bag around the League tonight for the Wolves. The Nuggets lost, but the Pelicans won.

The Nuggets, even without Jokic and Millsap, took the Pacers to overtime in Indiana. Although the Nuggets lost, tonight's game shows must how difficult it will be for the Wolves to finish ahead of them in the standings. A lot depends on how quickly Jokic and Millsap return. And of course, the Wolves can't afford to suffer comparable extended injuries. Given how tough the latter half of our schedule is, it's critical that the Wolves put together a big win streak the rest of this month and into early January.

Indiana obviously would have lost to Denver if not for Oladipo. He had an incredible game tonight with 47 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals and a block. The way he can penetrate and finish is extraordinary. Flip was right about him when he had him rated #1 on his draft board. Add Oladipo to a growing list of players we couldn't possibly get in a one-for-one trade for Wiggins, but who at one time would have been easily had for Wiggins straight up and probably with an extra sweetener in return: Oladipo, Greek Freak, Covington, Cousins, Middleton... I'd at least like Thibs to approach Milwaukee with an offer of Wiggins for Middleton.

Embiid missed tonight's game with a stiff back. The bad news for the Wolves is that he'll probably be ready to go and in top form Tuesday night against us after another day's rest. But the bad news for the Sixers is the fact that he's having back issues. I've watched a number of Sixers games so far this season. Embiid routinely lies on the floor when not in the game -- a sure sign of back issues. You might recall that Embiid had back issues in college. Those issues aren't going away. And of course he's had the knee issues since coming out the NBA. He's a generational talent, but I just don't see him lasting very long. At best, he'll have a run like Brandon Roy -- a brilliant caree for 5 years or so. But I'm not sure he'll last even that long. Too bad, because he's an incredible talent and great personality. So I certainly hope I'm wrong. However, I am hoping his back stiffness lasts through Tuesday night. :)

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I was a huge Victor Oladipo guy back when this forum still gathered at ESPN. Those that supported him then knew it at that time and know it now -- that guy has an incredible motor, work ethic, and desire to be great. Will he be a *great* player in this league? I won't say one way or the other, but I surely wouldn't bet money against him. He's been outstanding this season.

I may get some flack for this, but I was vehemently against any idea that had the Wolves drafting Joel Embiid and the reason never came down to talent level or even personality. He just doesn't physically check out; too many red flags with his injury history. That rings true today, as Lip alluded to. So, in terms of "Trust the Process", let's process this. During Embiid's lone season at Kansas he suffered a lumbar stress fracture called spondylolysis. Medically-speaking, that injury in itself isn't a dealbreaker. That's actually a common injury in the teen sports world primarily due to overuse. However, if it isn't completely healed, it can turn into spondylolisthesis, which actually is a back breaker in that a vertebra slips, leg pain increases and potentially ends careers. If that wasn't enough to be hesitant with him, in 2014, he was sidelined by a navicular fracture on his right foot. If you're unfamiliar with the injury, it's the same one that derailed Yao Ming's career completely, and certainly shortened the primes of Kevin McHale and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Another red flag? Are we running yet? Embiid also had arthroscopic surgery before this season on his left knee to remove a portion of his meniscus. I think this will continue to be the case with him until he abruptly has to call it quits while still in his prime. I hope for his sake and those that root for him that I'm wrong, but the proof is in the pudding. We've seen injuries ruin careers, especially with big men (Sam Bowie, Bill Walton, Greg Oden, Yao Ming, etc.).

Minnesota now has a 2.5 game lead in the 4th-seed position and sits 1.5 games back of San Antonio for 3rd. While I don't think we'll surpass the Spurs, the rest of this month could put us in the mix. After that, who knows.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

It's great to see Dipo put it all together. I'm just glad to see someone traded out of the West actually go nuts in the other conference!

Minnesota does find itself in a very solid position, as ugly as many of these wins have been. You can't argue with the end result of 16-11. But man, it's a tough team to get really excited about after you peel the onion back and see who we've beaten, who they have had injured, how close the games are, etc.

[Lipoli390]

I was a huge Victor Oladipo guy back when this forum still gathered at ESPN. Those that supported him then knew it at that time and know it now -- that guy has an incredible motor, work ethic, and desire to be great. Will he be a *great* player in this league? I won't say one way or the other, but I surely wouldn't bet money against him. He's been outstanding this season.

I may get some flack for this, but I was vehemently against any idea that had the Wolves drafting Joel Embiid and the reason never came down to talent level or even personality. He just doesn't physically check out; too many red flags with his injury history. That rings true today, as Lip alluded to. So, in terms of "Trust the Process", let's process this. During Embiid's lone season at Kansas he suffered a lumbar stress fracture called spondylolysis. Medically-speaking, that injury in itself isn't a dealbreaker. That's actually a common injury in the teen sports world primarily due to overuse. However, if it isn't completely healed, it can turn into spondylolisthesis, which actually is a back breaker in that a vertebra slips, leg pain increases and potentially ends careers. If that wasn't enough to be hesitant with him, in 2014, he was sidelined by a navicular fracture on his right foot. If you're unfamiliar with the injury, it's the same one that derailed Yao Ming's career completely, and certainly shortened the primes of Kevin McHale and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Another red flag? Are we running yet? Embiid also had arthroscopic surgery before this season on his left knee to remove a portion of his meniscus. I think this will continue to be the case with him until he abruptly has to call it quits while still in his prime. I hope for his sake and those that root for him that I'm wrong, but the proof is in the pudding. We've seen injuries ruin careers, especially with big men (Sam Bowie, Bill Walton, Greg Oden, Yao Ming, etc.).

Minnesota now has a 2.5 game lead in the 4th-seed position and sits 1.5 games back of San Antonio for 3rd. While I don't think we'll surpass the Spurs, the rest of this month could put us in the mix. After that, who knows.

I agree, Cam. Like you I would not have drafted Embiid because of his physical red flags and there are even more red flags now than there were then. As disappointed as I am in Wiggins, I wouldn't even think about trading Wiggins for Embiid because of those physical issues. The Sixers hit it out of the park with their Simmons pick and again with their Covington signing. But they messed up on the Embiid pick. I also think they made a mistake trading up for Fultz. But then we'll have to see how Fultz performs when he's healthy. Fultz is a scorer who should fit well next to Simmons.

[Lipoli390]

It's great to see Dipo put it all together. I'm just glad to see someone traded out of the West actually go nuts in the other conference!

Minnesota does find itself in a very solid position, as ugly as many of these wins have been. You can't argue with the end result of 16-11. But man, it's a tough team to get really excited about after you peel the onion back and see who we've beaten, who they have had injured, how close the games are, etc.

Yes. Hard to complain about being 16-11. But it is tough to watch and like the way this team plays. And I'm afraid the 16-11 record might be a bit illusory given who we've beaten and the key injuries a number of those teams had when we beat them. I also have a hard time forgetting that we were completely blown out in our two games without Butler. The Wolves' luck will apparently continue tomorrow night against the Sixers since it looks like Covington will be out. It's critical that the Wolves win these next 4 consecutive home games. I fear some rough sledding ahead as the Wolves face tougher competition and other teams get their good playes back. The Wolves have a very slim margin to work with based on what we've seen to date. Moreover, there are certain players on the Wolves who cannot be replaced -- Butler, KAT and Crawford. We have no one on the roster who comes close to doing for this team what those three guys do. If any one of them is out for any stretch of games, it will be horrendous.

[kekgeek]

I was a huge Victor Oladipo guy back when this forum still gathered at ESPN. Those that supported him then knew it at that time and know it now -- that guy has an incredible motor, work ethic, and desire to be great. Will he be a *great* player in this league? I won't say one way or the other, but I surely wouldn't bet money against him. He's been outstanding this season.

I may get some flack for this, but I was vehemently against any idea that had the Wolves drafting Joel Embiid and the reason never came down to talent level or even personality. He just doesn't physically check out; too many red flags with his injury history. That rings true today, as Lip alluded to. So, in terms of "Trust the Process", let's process this. During Embiid's lone season at Kansas he suffered a lumbar stress fracture called spondylolysis. Medically-speaking, that injury in itself isn't a dealbreaker. That's actually a common injury in the teen sports world primarily due to overuse. However, if it isn't completely healed, it can turn into spondylolisthesis, which actually is a back breaker in that a vertebra slips, leg pain increases and potentially ends careers. If that wasn't enough to be hesitant with him, in 2014, he was sidelined by a navicular fracture on his right foot. If you're unfamiliar with the injury, it's the same one that derailed Yao Ming's career completely, and certainly shortened the primes of Kevin McHale and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Another red flag? Are we running yet? Embiid also had arthroscopic surgery before this season on his left knee to remove a portion of his meniscus. I think this will continue to be the case with him until he abruptly has to call it quits while still in his prime. I hope for his sake and those that root for him that I'm wrong, but the proof is in the pudding. We've seen injuries ruin careers, especially with big men (Sam Bowie, Bill Walton, Greg Oden, Yao Ming, etc.).

Minnesota now has a 2.5 game lead in the 4th-seed position and sits 1.5 games back of San Antonio for 3rd. While I don't think we'll surpass the Spurs, the rest of this month could put us in the mix. After that, who knows.

I agree, Cam. Like you I would not have drafted Embiid because of his physical red flags and there are even more red flags now than there were then. As disappointed as I am in Wiggins, I wouldn't even think about trading Wiggins for Embiid because of those physical issues. The Sixers hit it out of the park with their Simmons pick and again with their Covington signing. But they messed up on the Embiid pick. I also think they made a mistake trading up for Fultz. But then we'll have to see how Fultz performs when he's healthy. Fultz is a scorer who should fit well next to Simmons.

That made me think in that draft for what we know now who would you trade Wiggins for straight up in that draft.

Parker: no, 2 ACL injuries and no defense.

Embiid: I would say no because of injuries but wouldn't complain with the gamble

Gordon: no

Exum: no

Smart: no (could possibly see a super well thought out argument)

Randle: no

Stauskas: no

Vonleh: no

Payton: no

McDermott: no

Saric: no

Lavine: no, understand the argument, ACL kills it for me.

Warren, harris, nurkic; I would say no on all of them.

Jokic: I personally say no, I think he is really overrated and playing him and KAT together could be problematic. Won't argue though if you would do that

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

From the list you provided, I'd trade Wiggins straight up, one-for-one, for Gordon, LaVine, Harris, and Jokic. I'd add Parker too if I knew he was going to be healthy, but he's been super unfortunate to start his career. It's a damn shame.

[thedoper]

I was a huge Victor Oladipo guy back when this forum still gathered at ESPN. Those that supported him then knew it at that time and know it now -- that guy has an incredible motor, work ethic, and desire to be great. Will he be a *great* player in this league? I won't say one way or the other, but I surely wouldn't bet money against him. He's been outstanding this season.

I may get some flack for this, but I was vehemently against any idea that had the Wolves drafting Joel Embiid and the reason never came down to talent level or even personality. He just doesn't physically check out; too many red flags with his injury history. That rings true today, as Lip alluded to. So, in terms of "Trust the Process", let's process this. During Embiid's lone season at Kansas he suffered a lumbar stress fracture called spondylolysis. Medically-speaking, that injury in itself isn't a dealbreaker. That's actually a common injury in the teen sports world primarily due to overuse. However, if it isn't completely healed, it can turn into spondylolisthesis, which actually is a back breaker in that a vertebra slips, leg pain increases and potentially ends careers. If that wasn't enough to be hesitant with him, in 2014, he was sidelined by a navicular fracture on his right foot. If you're unfamiliar with the injury, it's the same one that derailed Yao Ming's career completely, and certainly shortened the primes of Kevin McHale and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Another red flag? Are we running yet? Embiid also had arthroscopic surgery before this season on his left knee to remove a portion of his meniscus. I think this will continue to be the case with him until he abruptly has to call it quits while still in his prime. I hope for his sake and those that root for him that I'm wrong, but the proof is in the pudding. We've seen injuries ruin careers, especially with big men (Sam Bowie, Bill Walton, Greg Oden, Yao Ming, etc.).

Minnesota now has a 2.5 game lead in the 4th-seed position and sits 1.5 games back of San Antonio for 3rd. While I don't think we'll surpass the Spurs, the rest of this month could put us in the mix. After that, who knows.

I agree, Cam. Like you I would not have drafted Embiid because of his physical red flags and there are even more red flags now than there were then. As disappointed as I am in Wiggins, I wouldn't even think about trading Wiggins for Embiid because of those physical issues. The Sixers hit it out of the park with their Simmons pick and again with their Covington signing. But they messed up on the Embiid pick. I also think they made a mistake trading up for Fultz. But then we'll have to see how Fultz performs when he's healthy. Fultz is a scorer who should fit well next to Simmons.

That made me think in that draft for what we know now who would you trade Wiggins for straight up in that draft.

Parker: no, 2 ACL injuries and no defense.

Embiid: I would say no because of injuries but wouldn't complain with the gamble

Gordon: no

Exum: no

Smart: no (could possibly see a super well thought out argument)

Randle: no

Stauskas: no

Vonleh: no

Payton: no

McDermott: no

Saric: no

Lavine: no, understand the argument, ACL kills it for me.

Warren, harris, nurkic; I would say no on all of them.

Jokic: I personally say no, I think he is really overrated and playing him and KAT together could be problematic. Won't argue though if you would do that

Crazy to think of how many teams were tanking that year because that draft was supposed to be so loaded and so few of the players ended up getting extensions. I think it also speaks to not necessarily believing the draft hype and tanking as a strategy.

[kekgeek]

I was a huge Victor Oladipo guy back when this forum still gathered at ESPN. Those that supported him then knew it at that time and know it now -- that guy has an incredible motor, work ethic, and desire to be great. Will he be a *great* player in this league? I won't say one way or the other, but I surely wouldn't bet money against him. He's been outstanding this season.

I may get some flack for this, but I was vehemently against any idea that had the Wolves drafting Joel Embiid and the reason never came down to talent level or even personality. He just doesn't physically check out; too many red flags with his injury history. That rings true today, as Lip alluded to. So, in terms of "Trust the Process", let's process this. During Embiid's lone season at Kansas he suffered a lumbar stress fracture called spondylolysis. Medically-speaking, that injury in itself isn't a dealbreaker. That's actually a common injury in the teen sports world primarily due to overuse. However, if it isn't completely healed, it can turn into spondylolisthesis, which actually is a back breaker in that a vertebra slips, leg pain increases and potentially ends careers. If that wasn't enough to be hesitant with him, in 2014, he was sidelined by a navicular fracture on his right foot. If you're unfamiliar with the injury, it's the same one that derailed Yao Ming's career completely, and certainly shortened the primes of Kevin McHale and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Another red flag? Are we running yet? Embiid also had arthroscopic surgery before this season on his left knee to remove a portion of his meniscus. I think this will continue to be the case with him until he abruptly has to call it quits while still in his prime. I hope for his sake and those that root for him that I'm wrong, but the proof is in the pudding. We've seen injuries ruin careers, especially with big men (Sam Bowie, Bill Walton, Greg Oden, Yao Ming, etc.).

Minnesota now has a 2.5 game lead in the 4th-seed position and sits 1.5 games back of San Antonio for 3rd. While I don't think we'll surpass the Spurs, the rest of this month could put us in the mix. After that, who knows.

I agree, Cam. Like you I would not have drafted Embiid because of his physical red flags and there are even more red flags now than there were then. As disappointed as I am in Wiggins, I wouldn't even think about trading Wiggins for Embiid because of those physical issues. The Sixers hit it out of the park with their Simmons pick and again with their Covington signing. But they messed up on the Embiid pick. I also think they made a mistake trading up for Fultz. But then we'll have to see how Fultz performs when he's healthy. Fultz is a scorer who should fit well next to Simmons.

That made me think in that draft for what we know now who would you trade Wiggins for straight up in that draft.

Parker: no, 2 ACL injuries and no defense.

Embiid: I would say no because of injuries but wouldn't complain with the gamble

Gordon: no

Exum: no

Smart: no (could possibly see a super well thought out argument)

Randle: no

Stauskas: no

Vonleh: no

Payton: no

McDermott: no

Saric: no

Lavine: no, understand the argument, ACL kills it for me.

Warren, harris, nurkic; I would say no on all of them.

Jokic: I personally say no, I think he is really overrated and playing him and KAT together could be problematic. Won't argue though if you would do that

Crazy to think of how many teams were tanking that year because that draft was supposed to be so loaded and so few of the players ended up getting extensions. I think it also speaks to not necessarily believing the draft hype and tanking as a strategy.

A lot of injuries in this class, parker, Exum, Embiid and Lavine.

But probably only 1 franchise changing talent in embiid.

Couple of above average role guys in harris and smart.

A lot of what are they/what number in the pecking order are they guys in Wiggins, parker, Jokic, Gordon and Lavine