Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)

[Monster]

Some writer on ESPN wrote a column entitled "Is Donovan Mitchell the Next Allen Iverson?" Wow. Mitchell came to the NBA known for his defense and was a terrific defender his rookie season. By his own admission, Allen Iverson was a terrible defender. Are there similarities on the offensive side of the ball? I guess so. But Mitchell is quite a bit bigger than Iverson and not nearly the prolific scorer Iverson was. There are certainly better comparisons.

It's this kind of idiocy among supposedly professional writers on ESPN and other sites that makes me thankful for this Board. Even while I might disagree with various posts, the level of analysis on this Board is so much better than just about anything you'll find among the professional pundits.

It's pretty bad. But anything beats Doogie.

Lol. Yet another thing we agree on today, Doper. :)

Did anyone read actually read the article or just jump to a conclusion based on a headline (I have a strong dislike for leading headlines)?

The problem with misleading headlines is that the writer rarely writes them.

Hence, why there's often a disconnect with the actual article.

Yep, well put. I ended up reading a chunk of the article this morning. It actually seemed pretty solid to me. It was pointing out some stats comparing what Mitchell has been doing offeneively to what Iverson did. I think the comparison of their roles offensively is worth considering. Without knowing it the Jazz kinda ended up with a team built a team around Mitchell. A team of basically good role players and a defensive team that plays hard. Sounds a bit familiar doesn't it? They had some good thoughts it was basically really trying to put some context into what Mitchell has been doing this season including the playoffs.

I'll also add that while Iverson was not a guy I was really a big fan of the sixers defensive abilities utilized a couple of his strengths to their advantage. Teams had to worry about him coming out of nowhere and taking the ball away on a pass. The Sixers strength as a team and individually allowed Iverson basically to roam free and therefore get some easy steals which his physical gifts and anticipation were assets. He wasn't a good defender overall but he had some ability to use as an asset on that end.

The article wasn't as bad as the headline. But I still think the article's use of Iverson for context was pretty lame. I was a huge Iverson fan. He's my second favorite player of all time after Michael Jordan. I really like Mitchell, but Iverson is one of the last guys I'd use to provide context for what Mitchell did this season. I get what the author was attempting to convey, but I still think the comparison was silly.

I didn't remember you felt that way about Iverson. It probably feels worse for you then. I thought their statistical comparisons were interesting I would not have even considered it. Like I said I thought it was kind of an interesting context to view Mitchell's surprising season in. I can see why you would not feel that way though. We can agree the headline is really annoying. :)

[Lipoli390]

Great game tonight between the Celtics and Sixers. Two young very talented teams with terrific head coaches. They will be battling in the East for years to come and both are poised to eventually compete for a championship. Both organizations have done what you need to do to be successful in the NBA -- drafting well and then sticking with and developing the players they draft to form their core. Neither organization tried taking any short cuts or complained about being too young. Neither team sold any first round picks for cash or traded future first round picks for someone like Adrienne Payne. They each had similar plans and executed those plans extremely well, showing excellent judgment and patience.

Regarding the Celtics, no doubt that Brad Stevens has done a tremendous job with the Celtics this season (and last) has been tremendous. Note the success they have running plays after timeouts. Note the positive energy exuded by their head coach. But we shouldn't overlook the job Danny Ainge has done in the front office -- drafting Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier and Marcus Smart, acquiring Horford in his prime without giving up anyone to get him, and signing Marcus Morris to a relatively cheap $5 million per year contract. Oh, forgot to mention that they signed Hayward as a FA and traded an extra 1st round pick and a damaged PG for Kyrie Irving. Whoops, forgot to mention Danny's decision to hire Brad Stevens. You don't become a championship contender by accident. Excellence on the court almost always reflects excellence in the front office -- the two go hand in hand.

[Lipoli390]

Will Guillory: Nikola Mirotic when asked if he wants to be in New Orleans long-term: "No doubt....This has been like a family to me and I'm looking forward. This is the place I want to be." - via Twitter WillGuillory

I wonder if any of the Timberwolves players would say something similar.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

Will Guillory: Nikola Mirotic when asked if he wants to be in New Orleans long-term: "No doubt....This has been like a family to me and I'm looking forward. This is the place I want to be." - via Twitter WillGuillory

I wonder if any of the Timberwolves players would say something similar.

Nope.

I think under flip and smitch, there was a family type atmosphere. The kids had older brothers and fatherlike figures.

Under thibs, its simply a job. The players are just employees.

[Monster]

Will Guillory: Nikola Mirotic when asked if he wants to be in New Orleans long-term: "No doubt....This has been like a family to me and I'm looking forward. This is the place I want to be." - via Twitter WillGuillory

I wonder if any of the Timberwolves players would say something similar.

Nope.

I think under flip and smitch, there was a family type atmosphere. The kids had older brothers and fatherlike figures.

Under thibs, its simply a job. The players are just employees.

So...apparently nobody will want to play for Fred Hoiberg in Chicago? So now the Pelicans are a great organization and Gentry is a guy that will attract FAs?

I can tell you that not everyone wants to work for an organization that's like a "family".

[Monster]

Great game tonight between the Celtics and Sixers. Two young very talented teams with terrific head coaches. They will be battling in the East for years to come and both are poised to eventually compete for a championship. Both organizations have done what you need to do to be successful in the NBA -- drafting well and then sticking with and developing the players they draft to form their core. Neither organization tried taking any short cuts or complained about being too young. Neither team sold any first round picks for cash or traded future first round picks for someone like Adrienne Payne. They each had similar plans and executed those plans extremely well, showing excellent judgment and patience.

Regarding the Celtics, no doubt that Brad Stevens has done a tremendous job with the Celtics this season (and last) has been tremendous. Note the success they have running plays after timeouts. Note the positive energy exuded by their head coach. But we shouldn't overlook the job Danny Ainge has done in the front office -- drafting Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier and Marcus Smart, acquiring Horford in his prime without giving up anyone to get him, and signing Marcus Morris to a relatively cheap $5 million per year contract. Oh, forgot to mention that they signed Hayward as a FA and traded an extra 1st round pick and a damaged PG for Kyrie Irving. Whoops, forgot to mention Danny's decision to hire Brad Stevens. You don't become a championship contender by accident. Excellence on the court almost always reflects excellence in the front office -- the two go hand in hand.

Boston didn't sign Morris to a deal they traded for him in a deal that now looks even better with Avery Bradly not staying healthy this season. Signing Bynes to a relatively cheap deal looks good also. It would be hilarious if people spent time ripping them for the multiple draft picks the last few years they missed on. It helps when you have so many of them.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Will Guillory: Nikola Mirotic when asked if he wants to be in New Orleans long-term: "No doubt....This has been like a family to me and I'm looking forward. This is the place I want to be." - via Twitter WillGuillory

I wonder if any of the Timberwolves players would say something similar.

Nope.

I think under flip and smitch, there was a family type atmosphere. The kids had older brothers and fatherlike figures.

Under thibs, its simply a job. The players are just employees.

How do you know? Are you in the locker room? Were in the locker room then?

And even if everything was super duper hunkey-dory back then it was because the team literally had ZERO expectations. Professionals learn to get a job done whether they like their coworkers or not.


[Note: I prefer close-knit teams that stick together as a fan. But there are simply too many examples of all sorts of teams/closeness being successful.]

[AbeVigodaLive]

Great game tonight between the Celtics and Sixers. Two young very talented teams with terrific head coaches. They will be battling in the East for years to come and both are poised to eventually compete for a championship. Both organizations have done what you need to do to be successful in the NBA -- drafting well and then sticking with and developing the players they draft to form their core. Neither organization tried taking any short cuts or complained about being too young. Neither team sold any first round picks for cash or traded future first round picks for someone like Adrienne Payne. They each had similar plans and executed those plans extremely well, showing excellent judgment and patience.

Regarding the Celtics, no doubt that Brad Stevens has done a tremendous job with the Celtics this season (and last) has been tremendous. Note the success they have running plays after timeouts. Note the positive energy exuded by their head coach. But we shouldn't overlook the job Danny Ainge has done in the front office -- drafting Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier and Marcus Smart, acquiring Horford in his prime without giving up anyone to get him, and signing Marcus Morris to a relatively cheap $5 million per year contract. Oh, forgot to mention that they signed Hayward as a FA and traded an extra 1st round pick and a damaged PG for Kyrie Irving. Whoops, forgot to mention Danny's decision to hire Brad Stevens. You don't become a championship contender by accident. Excellence on the court almost always reflects excellence in the front office -- the two go hand in hand.

A fun series that ended too soon... since the Celtics are my 2nd favorite team (pre-Wolves decision)... I'm not complaining too much. But a couple of notes:

- Nearly everybody has praised Robert Covington. And the 76ers for building him up and paying him a solid contract. He might be reason #1 the 76ers are going home. He shot 26.8% this series and was benched. And he's probably the guy the team will be looking to improve on this summer or next.
- Danny Ainge was ripped for "reaching" for Terry Rozier in the draft. And then when Rozier shot 27% as a rookie!!!... things looked even worse.

Good/bad moves one day can look a lot different the next day.

[Lipoli390]

Great game tonight between the Celtics and Sixers. Two young very talented teams with terrific head coaches. They will be battling in the East for years to come and both are poised to eventually compete for a championship. Both organizations have done what you need to do to be successful in the NBA -- drafting well and then sticking with and developing the players they draft to form their core. Neither organization tried taking any short cuts or complained about being too young. Neither team sold any first round picks for cash or traded future first round picks for someone like Adrienne Payne. They each had similar plans and executed those plans extremely well, showing excellent judgment and patience.

Regarding the Celtics, no doubt that Brad Stevens has done a tremendous job with the Celtics this season (and last) has been tremendous. Note the success they have running plays after timeouts. Note the positive energy exuded by their head coach. But we shouldn't overlook the job Danny Ainge has done in the front office -- drafting Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier and Marcus Smart, acquiring Horford in his prime without giving up anyone to get him, and signing Marcus Morris to a relatively cheap $5 million per year contract. Oh, forgot to mention that they signed Hayward as a FA and traded an extra 1st round pick and a damaged PG for Kyrie Irving. Whoops, forgot to mention Danny's decision to hire Brad Stevens. You don't become a championship contender by accident. Excellence on the court almost always reflects excellence in the front office -- the two go hand in hand.

A fun series that ended too soon... since the Celtics are my 2nd favorite team (pre-Wolves decision)... I'm not complaining too much. But a couple of notes:

- Nearly everybody has praised Robert Covington. And the 76ers for building him up and paying him a solid contract. He might be reason #1 the 76ers are going home. He shot 26.8% this series and was benched. And he's probably the guy the team will be looking to improve on this summer or next.
- Danny Ainge was ripped for "reaching" for Terry Rozier in the draft. And then when Rozier shot 27% as a rookie!!!... things looked even worse.

Good/bad moves one day can look a lot different the next day.

Covington had a bad series shooting. But the Sixers could easily be up 3-2 but for Simmons' terrible pass near the end of game 3 as well as Redick's missed 3 or Embiid's missed layup near the end of last night's game. Covington was obviously a huge reason the Sixers won 50 games in the regular season. Yes, players can look better or worse one day than they did the previous day, week or month. That's quite a revelation, Abe. :). But of course the best approach is to look at a player's performance season to season. In that light Covington looks good. He had a terrific season on both ends of the court, including 3-point shooting. So I'd still praise Covington and say he's worth his contract. But I wouldn't say, nor have I ever said, he's a great player.

I remember the criticism of Ainge for drafting Rozier and I remember his rookie season shooting woes. He was also criticized for taking Brown at #3. But we now know they were terrific picks - Brown after 2 seasons and Rozier after 3 seasons. The fact that Rozier is still with the Celtics further reason to credit the Celtics organization. They not only made excellent picks; they also showed patience in sticking with them and giving them the playing and coaching they needed to develop.

[Lipoli390]

Great game tonight between the Celtics and Sixers. Two young very talented teams with terrific head coaches. They will be battling in the East for years to come and both are poised to eventually compete for a championship. Both organizations have done what you need to do to be successful in the NBA -- drafting well and then sticking with and developing the players they draft to form their core. Neither organization tried taking any short cuts or complained about being too young. Neither team sold any first round picks for cash or traded future first round picks for someone like Adrienne Payne. They each had similar plans and executed those plans extremely well, showing excellent judgment and patience.

Regarding the Celtics, no doubt that Brad Stevens has done a tremendous job with the Celtics this season (and last) has been tremendous. Note the success they have running plays after timeouts. Note the positive energy exuded by their head coach. But we shouldn't overlook the job Danny Ainge has done in the front office -- drafting Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier and Marcus Smart, acquiring Horford in his prime without giving up anyone to get him, and signing Marcus Morris to a relatively cheap $5 million per year contract. Oh, forgot to mention that they signed Hayward as a FA and traded an extra 1st round pick and a damaged PG for Kyrie Irving. Whoops, forgot to mention Danny's decision to hire Brad Stevens. You don't become a championship contender by accident. Excellence on the court almost always reflects excellence in the front office -- the two go hand in hand.

Boston didn't sign Morris to a deal they traded for him in a deal that now looks even better with Avery Bradly not staying healthy this season. Signing Bynes to a relatively cheap deal looks good also. It would be hilarious if people spent time ripping them for the multiple draft picks the last few years they missed on. It helps when you have so many of them.

Absolutely right that quantity of picks helps. That's why it's so idiotic to sell first round picks for cash or trade them for a player like Payne who couldn't get off the bench for a pretty bad team. The Celtics had a total of 9 first round picks from 2013 through 2017. They clearly hit on 4 of those 9 with Smart, Rozier, Brown and Tatum. To be fair, at least three of the remaining 5 are Euro-stash guys who could eventually pan out. So it can only get better. And credit the Celtics for amassing so many picks, including a pick I didn't mention that they used to get Kyrie Irving and the pick they received (a likely high lottery pick) as part of the deal that landed them Jason Tatum.

In contrast, the Wolves have had 7 first round picks in that same time frame. Here's what we got with those those picks: (1) Bazz, (2) Gorgui, (3) cash, (4) Zach LaVine, (5) KAT, (6) Dunn, and (7) Patton. I'd say we clearly hit on 1 of those 7 so far. But the jury's still out on LaVine, Dunn and Patton. Two of the three who might pan out are no longer here because Thibodeau chose a different path than the Celtics and Sixers -- choosing to accelerate things rather than develop organically or, in Embiid's words, "trust the process." It will take a couple more years to know whether Thibodeau's decision can be judged a success or failure.

So far I'd say the Celtics made better use of their 9 picks than the Wolves made of their 7 picks - even after you factor in using 2 of those picks to get Butler. But that picture could change over the next couple seasons, depending on what we see from LaVine, Dunn, Patton and the Celtcs' multiple Euro-stash picks.