Wolves with the Thunderous loss GDT!

[Lipoli390]

Would have liked to see Tyus get more burn since he was playing so well.

I think this game illustrates some issues with the coaching. Simply, it is tough when you play 8-12 minutes. With enough minutes, Tyus and G play better. In addition, Thibs has done nothing to limit Teague's over dribbling.

On another note, I think Wiggins is playing better than some give him credit for... but he does need to improve his FT's.

Great points, Pete. I agree with you on the coaching. And Wiggins is definitely playing better overall. But in addition to his free-throw woes, he's still a step or half-step slow reacting defensively. It really showed last night against Paul George. I don't know if that will ever chance. Not that he's lazy. I don't think he is. It just seems to be the way he's wired. His synapses just don't seem to fire as fast as others and that hurts him defensively. And his ballhandling skills just aren't there to become a star on the offensive end.

The more I reflect on Wiggins, the less critical I become. My thinking has shifted from concerns about his motor to a recognition that he simply has some innate limitations, which often look like motor issues. He's a very gifted athlete with terrific length, great body control in the air and a nice-looking shot with excellent range. I think his innate limitations - slower reaction and ballhandling issues - will prevent him from ever becoming an elite player. So I think the key for him becoming the best player he can be will be the development of his shot from both the field and the line. If through hard work and repetition he can develop into a 38-40% 3-point shooter and 80+% free-throw shooter who consistently pulls down 5-6 rebounds per game, then he'll be the player we need him to be.

[petecorcoran [enjin:6658618]]

Would have liked to see Tyus get more burn since he was playing so well.

I think this game illustrates some issues with the coaching. Simply, it is tough when you play 8-12 minutes. With enough minutes, Tyus and G play better. In addition, Thibs has done nothing to limit Teague's over dribbling.

On another note, I think Wiggins is playing better than some give him credit for... but he does need to improve his FT's.

Great points, Pete. I agree with you on the coaching. And Wiggins is definitely playing better overall. But in addition to his free-throw woes, he's still a step or half-step slow reacting defensively. It really showed last night against Paul George. I don't know if that will ever chance. Not that he's lazy. I don't think he is. It just seems to be the way he's wired. His synapses just don't seem to fire as fast as others and that hurts him defensively. And his ballhandling skills just aren't there to become a star on the offensive end.

The more I reflect on Wiggins, the less critical I become. My thinking has shifted from concerns about his motor to a recognition that he simply has some innate limitations, which often look like motor issues. He's a very gifted athlete with terrific length, great body control in the air and a nice-looking shot with excellent range. I think his innate limitations - slower reaction and ballhandling issues - will prevent him from ever becoming an elite player. So I think the key for him becoming the best player he can be will be the development of his shot from both the field and the line. If through hard work and repetition he can develop into a 38-40% 3-point shooter and 80+% free-throw shooter who consistently pulls down 5-6 rebounds per game, then he'll be the player we need him to be.

Wigs will never come close to the best #1 pick ever, but we all like to remember Shaq, Magic, etc. And he's way better than the likes of Glenn Robinson and the Kandi Man.

He's never going to be an elite defender, but a defensive minded big would help, too. (I agree, not DJ jnless he comes cheap at the deadline). In my mind, Wigs threes are coming along, but the free throws are just a lack of focus, like we see in the defense.

[Monster]

I'm starting to think I'm gonna follow Cool on refraining from commenting on Wiggins.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

I'm starting to think I'm gonna follow Cool on refraining from commenting on Wiggins.

Seems like a lot of dislike for Wiggins on this board. I be thought he played well yesterday. There's only so much a player can do when an all star gets hot and when Adams sets a screen. Every big screen was intentionally set by the guy that Kat or dieng was guarding last night. Wiggs gets rubbed, no one else reacts. Wiggs gets there late. PG for 3.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Would have liked to see Tyus get more burn since he was playing so well.

I think this game illustrates some issues with the coaching. Simply, it is tough when you play 8-12 minutes. With enough minutes, Tyus and G play better. In addition, Thibs has done nothing to limit Teague's over dribbling.

On another note, I think Wiggins is playing better than some give him credit for... but he does need to improve his FT's.

I couldn't agree more, pete. And interestingly enough, even Teague commented in this morning's paper that he thought Tyus would have played more. I found that an odd comment to make, and an indication that Thibs might be losing (or have lost) this team. It's fine when a player says he wants to play more...that's just being competitive. But it's weird for a player to suggest he should have played less. But of course he should have. He was coming off an injury, and would have been better off playing about 20 minutes max...especially with Tyus playing so well. Playing Tyus only 11 minutes last night was wrong in so many ways: it reduces Tyus' confidence just at a time when he is becoming a key player, it increases the chance of injury for Jeff, it left an out of game shape Teague less effective at crunch time, and it likely caused some doubt in players' minds about Thibs' decisions (Butler has said twice in the last couple days that it's going to be difficult to get Tyus off the court...well, not for Thibs).

[Monster]

Would have liked to see Tyus get more burn since he was playing so well.

I think this game illustrates some issues with the coaching. Simply, it is tough when you play 8-12 minutes. With enough minutes, Tyus and G play better. In addition, Thibs has done nothing to limit Teague's over dribbling.

On another note, I think Wiggins is playing better than some give him credit for... but he does need to improve his FT's.

I couldn't agree more, pete. And interestingly enough, even Teague commented in this morning's paper that he thought Tyus would have played more. I found that an odd comment to make, and an indication that Thibs might be losing (or have lost) this team. It's fine when a player says he wants to play more...that's just being competitive. But it's weird for a player to suggest he should have played less. But of course he should have. He was coming off an injury, and would have been better off playing about 20 minutes max...especially with Tyus playing so well. Playing Tyus only 11 minutes last night was wrong in so many ways: it reduces Tyus' confidence just at a time when he is becoming a key player, it increases the chance of injury for Jeff, it left an out of game shape Teague less effective at crunch time, and it likely caused some doubt in players' minds about Thibs' decisions (Butler has said twice in the last couple days that it's going to be difficult to get Tyus off the court...well, not for Thibs).

A couple things when it comes to Teague and Tyus.

1. Teague played pretty well in that game.

2. There was a stretch of a couple possessions where Teague was on the bench and was standing up communicating to his teammates helping them and also cheering them on.

3. Crawford played a short stretch of minutes at PG. Britt Robson said it didn't really work but he liked the idea of tinkering. That's about where I was with it all.

4. I don't see Tyus as a guy that lives or dies by confidence building. If anything maybe he could have been tired from playing all those heavy minutes right LST? :)

Jim Peterson said on the broadcast that the Wolves didn't start out with Butler on Westbrook and he was completely wrong. Teague started the game guarding Roberson on most possessions. If someone I respect as much as Jim missed that I guess we can all miss some stuff.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Would have liked to see Tyus get more burn since he was playing so well.

I think this game illustrates some issues with the coaching. Simply, it is tough when you play 8-12 minutes. With enough minutes, Tyus and G play better. In addition, Thibs has done nothing to limit Teague's over dribbling.

On another note, I think Wiggins is playing better than some give him credit for... but he does need to improve his FT's.

I couldn't agree more, pete. And interestingly enough, even Teague commented in this morning's paper that he thought Tyus would have played more. I found that an odd comment to make, and an indication that Thibs might be losing (or have lost) this team. It's fine when a player says he wants to play more...that's just being competitive. But it's weird for a player to suggest he should have played less. But of course he should have. He was coming off an injury, and would have been better off playing about 20 minutes max...especially with Tyus playing so well. Playing Tyus only 11 minutes last night was wrong in so many ways: it reduces Tyus' confidence just at a time when he is becoming a key player, it increases the chance of injury for Jeff, it left an out of game shape Teague less effective at crunch time, and it likely caused some doubt in players' minds about Thibs' decisions (Butler has said twice in the last couple days that it's going to be difficult to get Tyus off the court...well, not for Thibs).

A couple things when it comes to Teague and Tyus.

1. Teague played pretty well in that game.

2. There was a stretch of a couple possessions where Teague was on the bench and was standing up communicating to his teammates helping them and also cheering them on.

3. Crawford played a short stretch of minutes at PG. Britt Robson said it didn't really work but he liked the idea of tinkering. That's about where I was with it all.

4. I don't see Tyus as a guy that lives or dies by confidence building. If anything maybe he could have been tired from playing all those heavy minutes right LST? :)

Jim Peterson said on the broadcast that the Wolves didn't start out with Butler on Westbrook and he was completely wrong. Teague started the game guarding Roberson on most possessions. If someone I respect as much as Jim missed that I guess we can all miss some stuff.

It does look like Teague played well, but Achilles tendons are tricky, and it would have been much more prudent to ease Jeff back. I also find his quote very revealing: "I didn't know I would play that much. Tyus has been playing really well. I figured he'd play more too". Yes, Jeff...so did some of us.

[Monster]

Would have liked to see Tyus get more burn since he was playing so well.

I think this game illustrates some issues with the coaching. Simply, it is tough when you play 8-12 minutes. With enough minutes, Tyus and G play better. In addition, Thibs has done nothing to limit Teague's over dribbling.

On another note, I think Wiggins is playing better than some give him credit for... but he does need to improve his FT's.

I couldn't agree more, pete. And interestingly enough, even Teague commented in this morning's paper that he thought Tyus would have played more. I found that an odd comment to make, and an indication that Thibs might be losing (or have lost) this team. It's fine when a player says he wants to play more...that's just being competitive. But it's weird for a player to suggest he should have played less. But of course he should have. He was coming off an injury, and would have been better off playing about 20 minutes max...especially with Tyus playing so well. Playing Tyus only 11 minutes last night was wrong in so many ways: it reduces Tyus' confidence just at a time when he is becoming a key player, it increases the chance of injury for Jeff, it left an out of game shape Teague less effective at crunch time, and it likely caused some doubt in players' minds about Thibs' decisions (Butler has said twice in the last couple days that it's going to be difficult to get Tyus off the court...well, not for Thibs).

A couple things when it comes to Teague and Tyus.

1. Teague played pretty well in that game.

2. There was a stretch of a couple possessions where Teague was on the bench and was standing up communicating to his teammates helping them and also cheering them on.

3. Crawford played a short stretch of minutes at PG. Britt Robson said it didn't really work but he liked the idea of tinkering. That's about where I was with it all.

4. I don't see Tyus as a guy that lives or dies by confidence building. If anything maybe he could have been tired from playing all those heavy minutes right LST? :)

Jim Peterson said on the broadcast that the Wolves didn't start out with Butler on Westbrook and he was completely wrong. Teague started the game guarding Roberson on most possessions. If someone I respect as much as Jim missed that I guess we can all miss some stuff.

It does look like Teague played well, but Achilles tendons are tricky, and it would have been much more prudent to ease Jeff back. I also find his quote very revealing: "I didn't know I would play that much. Tyus has been playing really well. I figured he'd play more too". Yes, Jeff...so did some of us.

Sounds like a quote from a very supportive teammate. That's good to see when it's possible Tyus could take some of his minutes and at some point down the road his starting job.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Keep in mind Teague is used to playing with pretty capable backup PGs and has never averaged more than about 32 MPG.....until this year. The other guy averaging by far a career high in minutes per game? One of the oldest players on the team: Taj Gibson.

Thibs rides his starters too hard. Period. And if he's doing it because his bench isn't good enough, he has only himself to blame!

[Lipoli390]

I'm starting to think I'm gonna follow Cool on refraining from commenting on Wiggins.

Seems like a lot of dislike for Wiggins on this board. I be thought he played well yesterday. There's only so much a player can do when an all star gets hot and when Adams sets a screen. Every big screen was intentionally set by the guy that Kat or dieng was guarding last night. Wiggs gets rubbed, no one else reacts. Wiggs gets there late. PG for 3.

I think the level of negativity towards Wiggins on this Board is less so far this season than last. The negativity seems to have shifted to KAT. Watching Wiggins, it looks like he's improved. At least that's been my take this season. But his stats tell a different tale. Consider the following:

1. Scoring/Shooting -- His points per game are down from last season, yet his 53.6 TS is up only ever so slightly from last season's 53.4%. His FG% is up only slightly over last season, but it's the same as his 2nd season. His 3-point percentage of 33.7% so far this season is significantly lower than his 35.6% 3-point shooting last season. He's averaging fewer 3-point attempts this season than last. In fact, his 5.5 FT attempts so far this season is the lowest in his career to date and is part of a downward trend year to year. His dismal 63.5% FT percentage is also the lowest in his career. So there's really no discernable upward trend, even in what we'd all regard as his area of strength - namely scoring or shooting.

2. Other Areas -- He seems to be better in the "do-stuff" category. But again, the stats suggest otherwise. His 4.1 rebound per game average is the same as last season and lower than the 4.6 average his rookie season. He's averaging the same number of assists per game (2.3) as in each of his previous 3 seasons. His 0.7 blocks per game exceeds last season's pathetic 0.4, but it's actually about the same as the 0.6 his first two seasons. His 1.3 steals per game this season is certainly better than the 1.0 his previous 3 seasons, but it's not what I'd call a breakthrough.

3. PER -- Using this as a measure of his overall performance, Wiggins is significantly worse than his last two seasons. His PER so far this season is 15.32, compared to 16.61 and 16.62 his pervious two seasons.

Again, he seems better this season based on my eye test. But some of that might be my own wishful thinking. And in any event, the stats provide a more objective and probably more accurate measure of how he's really performing. A quarter of the way through his 4th season and there is no objective evidence that this guy is trending towards becoming anything more than what he's been since he arrived. He's now a max salary guy who no one would even remotely consider putting on the allstar team. That's troubling to say the least.