Damning Stats

[Coolbreeze44]

Tyus deserves a shot at being our starting PG. It may not be a good long term solution but you never know. He definitely deserves the chance.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Tyus deserves a shot at being our starting PG. It may not be a good long term solution but you never know. He definitely deserves the chance.

I think we discussed this before... but so many NBA guys are set with their rotations. And that's both good and bad.

Players tend to perform better when they know what's expected. Consistency from the coach leads to consistency from the players... and all that.

That being said, when should coaches step out from beyond those strict rotations? Is one performance from Tyus Jones enough? I think a lot of us have seen how poorly Dunn has played and how mediocre Rubio has been... and Jones is the resident "backup qb" in this scenario.

I like Jones. I want him to succeed. I just don't know what good it's gonna do in the end. This team just has to get more from Rubio and the guy it just drafted.

[Coolbreeze44]

Tyus deserves a shot at being our starting PG. It may not be a good long term solution but you never know. He definitely deserves the chance.

I think we discussed this before... but so many NBA guys are set with their rotations. And that's both good and bad.

Players tend to perform better when they know what's expected. Consistency from the coach leads to consistency from the players... and all that.

That being said, when should coaches step out from beyond those strict rotations? Is one performance from Tyus Jones enough? I think a lot of us have seen how poorly Dunn has played and how mediocre Rubio has been... and Jones is the resident "backup qb" in this scenario.

I like Jones. I want him to succeed. I just don't know what good it's gonna do in the end. This team just has to get more from Rubio and the guy it just drafted.

Don't sell Tyus short. He has a way of orchestrating things on the floor, and he's our only option with a jump shot. I'd like to see him get an extended audition to see what it looks like. I even think his smarts and hands on defense could be an underrated asset. He's also just 20 years old.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I think Abe is just being practical. Thibs isn't going to suddenly insert Tyus in as the starter unless this trend continues for a sustained period of time and he is left with no other option. That being said, I think Thibs has shown a willingness to go with Tyus in 4th quarters. That's pretty significant.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Tyus deserves a shot at being our starting PG. It may not be a good long term solution but you never know. He definitely deserves the chance.

I think we discussed this before... but so many NBA guys are set with their rotations. And that's both good and bad.

Players tend to perform better when they know what's expected. Consistency from the coach leads to consistency from the players... and all that.

That being said, when should coaches step out from beyond those strict rotations? Is one performance from Tyus Jones enough? I think a lot of us have seen how poorly Dunn has played and how mediocre Rubio has been... and Jones is the resident "backup qb" in this scenario.

I like Jones. I want him to succeed. I just don't know what good it's gonna do in the end. This team just has to get more from Rubio and the guy it just drafted.

Don't sell Tyus short. He has a way of orchestrating things on the floor, and he's our only option with a jump shot. I'd like to see him get an extended audition to see what it looks like. I even think his smarts and hands on defense could be an underrated asset. He's also just 20 years old.

I get it. And as noted, I like him. (Provincial rube alert!)

I remember watching him even in college vs. Wisconsin early in the year and raving that I'd never seen a PG that young be that composed. I just don't think he's a playoff caliber PG.

And that's the ultimate goal for this team. The problem is I don't know if there is a playoff caliber PG on the roster right now.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

So what is it exactly you attribute the slow start to?

1. Thibs running the offense through the wings and bigs more than Rubio. They are assisting on fewer baskets and playing more isolation ball. LaVine and Wiggins are not natural play makers and are capable of making only the most basic passes. That doesn't mean they can't improve and clearly Thibs is trying to develop them, but I have seen minimal improvement on this front through their first two seasons.

2. Rubio and Dunn have shot the ball terribly, even by Rubio's historical standards.

3. Team defense still sucks, especially when the offense sputters. This is almost 100% on the starters, as these are the guys that have been annihilated in 3rd quarters. It's hard for me to pinpoint any one or two guys not defending well, so I will simply give equal part blame to all five starters as well as Coach Thibs.

I am curious why it is hard for you to pinpoint and say that Rubio and Lavine have been awful defensively? I get your point that team D means all share responsibility. But these two routinely get burned. My personal take is that Wiggins, Towns and G all can man defend. Rubio used to be able to but I think he is not in shape for whatever reason. Lavine should be able to but lacks any kind of focus. The team concepts are weak for everyone it seems, but when the guards routinely breakdown on their individual coverage it is very challenging for the rest of the team to constantly make up the slack. You should not have to help on guards as much as we do, even thought there are a lot of talented guards in the NBA.

To be fair, today's NBA is more about team defense than one-on-one battles. There aren't many guys in the NBA who can stop penetration one-on-one with quick, athletic, talented guards.

I think the entire Wolves squad struggles to maintain basic team principles after one or two and definitely three offensive moves/sets/passes.

I think that's where a guy like LaVine struggles the most... along with most young guys.

There was that classic gif of the Wolves vs. SA last season where laVine and others didn't even know where to look for the ball. (I can't find it though!!!)

I'm not expecting either of them to stop anyone. Just to try, to fight through screens, to make the initial set up of the offense take 8 seconds instead of 2. One on one battles still matter. There is a reason PGs go off on us, it can't be overlooked. If your first line of defense is an afterthought it is hard to apply an effective team concept. I agree that the bigs can have a bigger impact and our are learning team concepts. But 2 elements stink at iso principles (especially Zach) it is hard to make up ground.

I'm seeing things completely different than most. I see Gorgi sagging in the paint which allows the ball handler to turn the corner and penetrate. That allows the opponent to challenge G at the rim, pull up for a midrange jumper, or more importantly allows passing lanes to the roller and the corner (who our weakside defender has left to help). I don't see our guards being beaten of the dribble much at all. All most everything seems to be created off the PnR. Rubio at times, is shading his man to keep him to his left, but that once again falls on G to step up and help, and G just isn't making timely decisions.

This is what I've seen from Dieng for about two seasons now. Good observations, sjm. People seem to hype up his P&R defense, but to me it's never really been that good.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

Let's see how December plays out, but if we're 10 or so games under .500, start tyus, trade Rubio.

[MikkeMan]

The problem with Luol Deng is that he's just not a starting small forward anymore. I talked about this a lot over the off-season when I argued that he would be a good addition. He played his best last year when he was matched up against power forwards. You can look at the splits and see the vast difference.

If Los Angeles is looking to dump him in December and they're just wanting to get out from under that contract, it'd be worth looking into if we can use Pekovic's deal and maybe get some kind of pick compensation on top of it.

I think Deng played last season best in playoffs when he was defending DeRozan. Even tough Toronto beat Miami, DeRozan shot less than 40% when he was defended mainly by Deng. I agree that offensively Deng is currently best suited as small ball power forward but defensively he can still defend small forwards. I can't understand why Walton opted to put Deng for Belly and let Wiggins school Young whole night when Wolves beat Lakers.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

The problem with Luol Deng is that he's just not a starting small forward anymore. I talked about this a lot over the off-season when I argued that he would be a good addition. He played his best last year when he was matched up against power forwards. You can look at the splits and see the vast difference.

If Los Angeles is looking to dump him in December and they're just wanting to get out from under that contract, it'd be worth looking into if we can use Pekovic's deal and maybe get some kind of pick compensation on top of it.

I think Deng played last season best in playoffs when he was defending DeRozan. Even tough Toronto beat Miami, DeRozan shot less than 40% when he was defended mainly by Deng. I agree that offensively Deng is currently best suited as small ball power forward but defensively he can still defend small forwards. I can't understand why Walton opted to put Deng for Belly and let Wiggins school Young whole night when Wolves beat Lakers.

Exactly, Mikkeman...Thibs outcoached Walton in that good win (maybe out of necessity, unfortunately). I fell in love with the idea of Deng on this team when I watched what he did to DeRozen in the playoffs...it reminded me of a better version of Tay Prince. He has all the veteran moves (cheats?) on defense that Prince had, but his size was a big advantage over Tay. He doesn't add much on the offensive end, but that's not what this team needs. Even with an angry Thibs prowling the sidelines, I think this team is closer to 12-5 than 5-12 with Deng at SF, Wig at SG, and Zach lighting it up off the bench.

[MikkeMan]

The problem with Luol Deng is that he's just not a starting small forward anymore. I talked about this a lot over the off-season when I argued that he would be a good addition. He played his best last year when he was matched up against power forwards. You can look at the splits and see the vast difference.

If Los Angeles is looking to dump him in December and they're just wanting to get out from under that contract, it'd be worth looking into if we can use Pekovic's deal and maybe get some kind of pick compensation on top of it.

I think Deng played last season best in playoffs when he was defending DeRozan. Even tough Toronto beat Miami, DeRozan shot less than 40% when he was defended mainly by Deng. I agree that offensively Deng is currently best suited as small ball power forward but defensively he can still defend small forwards. I can't understand why Walton opted to put Deng for Belly and let Wiggins school Young whole night when Wolves beat Lakers.

Exactly, Mikkeman...Thibs outcoached Walton in that good win (maybe out of necessity, unfortunately). I fell in love with the idea of Deng on this team when I watched what he did to DeRozen in the playoffs...it reminded me of a better version of Tay Prince. He has all the veteran moves (cheats?) on defense that Prince had, but his size was a big advantage over Tay. He doesn't add much on the offensive end, but that's not what this team needs. Even with an angry Thibs prowling the sidelines, I think this team is closer to 12-5 than 5-12 with Deng at SF, Wig at SG, and Zach lighting it up off the bench.

I think that Deng would also suit offensively better for Wolves team than for Lakers. Wiggins and Towns getting double teams would leave Deng open and at least in the end of last season and playoffs, he made opponents to pay doubling Wade.

Still about that Lakers game, I also thought that Walton did terrible job in that game. In next game against Charlotte, Clifford didn't do same mistake. Whenever Belly and Wiggins were playing together as wings, he opted always to put better defender for Wiggins even if it left much smaller wing defending Belly. I saw Belinelli defending Belly several minutes and Belly wasn't able to use his size advantage that much.

If Walton decided to not use Deng for defending Wiggins, he could have replaced him with quicker wing with better handle. Playing Russell, Clarkson and Young together would have meant that Belly would have to defend one of those and it would have created at least mismatch to both ends.