CoolBreeze44 wrote:Towns isn't as talented as Wiggins, but he plays so damn hard. The energy he expends is really impressive. Andrew had great energy tonight too.
Uh, no. If you look at their skills relative to the position they play and their years of NBA experience, I think KAT is hands down more talented. There is no big man that can score in the same variety of ways KAT is able to and he does it more efficiently than Wiggins. Heck, he even averages more assists than Wiggins. Neither are good overall defenders yet.
All of that being said, Wiggins has been coming on strong lately. I hope it's a debate we can have for years to come.
I agree this very much. As good and consistent as Wiggins have been in last 18 games, his numbers have been still inferior what KAT has had during same time.
Wiggins in last 18 games has 27.7 pts, 3.9rbs, 2.8 asts, 1.6 stls, 2.1 TOs with 58.6 TS%. Those are really terrific numbers and that 18 games stretch is by far most impressive streak of games that Wiggins has had during his career.
But KAT's numbers in last 18 games have been even more impressive. His line: 28.9 pts, 12.7 rbs, 2.9 asts, 1.3 blks, 2.6 TOs with 66.7 TS% is really insane when you consider the scoring efficiency and volume.
Yeah, I think we take what KAT does for granted sometimes. The reason why Wiggins has been so noticeable lately is more a function of how he tended to disappear for stretches previously. That was never really an issue with KAT. Now we are getting consistently great production from both guys.
Defense is still an issue, but these guys are carrying an awfully big load on offense.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Towns isn't as talented as Wiggins, but he plays so damn hard. The energy he expends is really impressive. Andrew had great energy tonight too.
Uh, no. If you look at their skills relative to the position they play and their years of NBA experience, I think KAT is hands down more talented. There is no big man that can score in the same variety of ways KAT is able to and he does it more efficiently than Wiggins. Heck, he even averages more assists than Wiggins. Neither are good overall defenders yet.
All of that being said, Wiggins has been coming on strong lately. I hope it's a debate we can have for years to come.
I agree this very much. As good and consistent as Wiggins have been in last 18 games, his numbers have been still inferior what KAT has had during same time.
Wiggins in last 18 games has 27.7 pts, 3.9rbs, 2.8 asts, 1.6 stls, 2.1 TOs with 58.6 TS%. Those are really terrific numbers and that 18 games stretch is by far most impressive streak of games that Wiggins has had during his career.
But KAT's numbers in last 18 games have been even more impressive. His line: 28.9 pts, 12.7 rbs, 2.9 asts, 1.3 blks, 2.6 TOs with 66.7 TS% is really insane when you consider the scoring efficiency and volume.
I'm not talking about numbers, I'm talking about talent. If you've been listening to the local broadcast you would have heard Jim Pete saying the same thing. And Jim Pete saying he's heard the same thing from our coaches and opposing coaches. I'm not breaking new ground with these statements.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Towns isn't as talented as Wiggins, but he plays so damn hard. The energy he expends is really impressive. Andrew had great energy tonight too.
Uh, no. If you look at their skills relative to the position they play and their years of NBA experience, I think KAT is hands down more talented. There is no big man that can score in the same variety of ways KAT is able to and he does it more efficiently than Wiggins. Heck, he even averages more assists than Wiggins. Neither are good overall defenders yet.
All of that being said, Wiggins has been coming on strong lately. I hope it's a debate we can have for years to come.
I agree this very much. As good and consistent as Wiggins have been in last 18 games, his numbers have been still inferior what KAT has had during same time.
Wiggins in last 18 games has 27.7 pts, 3.9rbs, 2.8 asts, 1.6 stls, 2.1 TOs with 58.6 TS%. Those are really terrific numbers and that 18 games stretch is by far most impressive streak of games that Wiggins has had during his career.
But KAT's numbers in last 18 games have been even more impressive. His line: 28.9 pts, 12.7 rbs, 2.9 asts, 1.3 blks, 2.6 TOs with 66.7 TS% is really insane when you consider the scoring efficiency and volume.
Yeah, I think we take what KAT does for granted sometimes. The reason why Wiggins has been so noticeable lately is more a function of how he tended to disappear for stretches previously. That was never really an issue with KAT. Now we are getting consistently great production from both guys.
Defense is still an issue, but these guys are carrying an awfully big load on offense.
Again, if you're paying attention you should be noticing a huge improvement in Wiggins on the defensive end. It might not be showing up on your favorite metrics yet but the improvement is real and easy to notice. KAT hasn't made similar improvement yet. When he does this team will win a lot more games.
Missed the game last night so it's great to catch up through the GDT. Wow, our PFs shoot 4-23, and we win by 14 on the road! A quick look at the box score would lead to the conclusion that another strong game by our Big 2 won this game...what a couple studs they are! But LST wouldn't be LST if he didn't point out again the two key factors he thinks lead to wins:
1) Minutes for Tyus Jones. The guy has always been a winner, and he is showing us that pedigree translates to the NBA as well. I'm not keeping track of this stat anymore, but our record when Tyus plays more than 10 minutes is extraordinary. He didn't shoot well last night, but 5 assists against one turnover and a great plus minus is indicative of the kind of minutes he can give us.
2) Play the bench. Hallelujah...Thibs got out of his comfort zone and played the bench 95 minutes...a rare game where our bench had more minutes than there's! And look at the results. Our stars simply play better late game defense and don't have late game collapses when Thibs gives then the proper rest. And a team-leading plus 27 and 23 for Belly and Tyus, respectively, shows the kind of value they can provide when Thibs gives them a chance. Good on Thibs...keep it up!
Sure, the Kings are not a great team...but a 14 point win on the road is taking care of business. The rotation adjustments that Thibs has made in the past couple weeks as exactly what we have needed all season, and positive evidence that he is flexible enough to make the necessary changes he needed to make to turn this season around. The playoffs are still a long shot, but Thibs' recent coaching style has given me some confidence that he may be the right guy to take this talented roster to the next level. The team is 13-10 in their last 23 games despite Zach LaVine being out for most of those games. The rest of the season is tough, but the way we are playing tells me there will be many more wins coming that Q and Tim (and I) didn't expect.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Towns isn't as talented as Wiggins, but he plays so damn hard. The energy he expends is really impressive. Andrew had great energy tonight too.
Uh, no. If you look at their skills relative to the position they play and their years of NBA experience, I think KAT is hands down more talented. There is no big man that can score in the same variety of ways KAT is able to and he does it more efficiently than Wiggins. Heck, he even averages more assists than Wiggins. Neither are good overall defenders yet.
All of that being said, Wiggins has been coming on strong lately. I hope it's a debate we can have for years to come.
I agree this very much. As good and consistent as Wiggins have been in last 18 games, his numbers have been still inferior what KAT has had during same time.
Wiggins in last 18 games has 27.7 pts, 3.9rbs, 2.8 asts, 1.6 stls, 2.1 TOs with 58.6 TS%. Those are really terrific numbers and that 18 games stretch is by far most impressive streak of games that Wiggins has had during his career.
But KAT's numbers in last 18 games have been even more impressive. His line: 28.9 pts, 12.7 rbs, 2.9 asts, 1.3 blks, 2.6 TOs with 66.7 TS% is really insane when you consider the scoring efficiency and volume.
I'm not talking about numbers, I'm talking about talent. If you've been listening to the local broadcast you would have heard Jim Pete saying the same thing. And Jim Pete saying he's heard the same thing from our coaches and opposing coaches. I'm not breaking new ground with these statements.
Right, never mind the numbers or J-Pete. Instead, let's break it down into individual skills since it's the sum of one's skills that equals talent. What skills is Wiggins superior to KAT on?
Form my perspective, KAT is the superior scorer, shooter, passer, and rebounder. He also has above average handles for his position, whereas Wiggins has average at best handles for his position. Wiggins may be a bit more advanced defensively, but he also has one more year than KAT in the NBA and learning defensive schemes is much more complex for a big.
My point isn't to knock Wiggins, but more to highlight just how talented KAT is. I don't need numbers to tell me this (even though they help prove the point anyway).
longstrangetrip wrote:Missed the game last night so it's great to catch up through the GDT. Wow, our PFs shoot 4-23, and we win by 14 on the road! A quick look at the box score would lead to the conclusion that another strong game by our Big 2 won this game...what a couple studs they are! But LST wouldn't be LST if he didn't point out again the two key factors he thinks lead to wins:
1) Minutes for Tyus Jones. The guy has always been a winner, and he is showing us that pedigree translates to the NBA as well. I'm not keeping track of this stat anymore, but our record when Tyus plays more than 10 minutes is extraordinary. He didn't shoot well last night, but 5 assists against one turnover and a great plus minus is indicative of the kind of minutes he can give us.
2) Play the bench. Hallelujah...Thibs got out of his comfort zone and played the bench 95 minutes...a rare game where our bench had more minutes than there's! And look at the results. Our stars simply play better late game defense and don't have late game collapses when Thibs gives then the proper rest. And a team-leading plus 27 and 23 for Belly and Tyus, respectively, shows the kind of value they can provide when Thibs gives them a chance. Good on Thibs...keep it up!
Sure, the Kings are not a great team...but a 14 point win on the road is taking care of business. The rotation adjustments that Thibs has made in the past couple weeks as exactly what we have needed all season, and positive evidence that he is flexible enough to make the necessary changes he needed to make to turn this season around. The playoffs are still a long shot, but Thibs' recent coaching style has given me some confidence that he may be the right guy to take this talented roster to the next level. The team is 13-10 in their last 23 games despite Zach LaVine being out for most of those games. The rest of the season is tough, but the way we are playing tells me there will be many more wins coming that Q and Tim (and I) didn't expect.
Yeah, Tyus is proving to be a very worthy rotation player and a very capable backup PG. I don't think Thibs will ever trust him as his starting PG over Dunn due solely to defensive reasons. There is no question he's the better overall PG right now, but given the caliber of starting level PGs in the league, Thibs probably thinks Tyus would get overwhelmed too many nights.
I give the edge to Towns still. I think Wiggins is a better two way player than KAT right now, and Wiggins has shown to be able to guard multiple positions. Towns hasn't been much of a help defender or an individual defender. Towns effortlessly fills up the stat sheet though and digs for those rebounds which can't overlooked as a defensive skill. I think the way Wiggins moves makes me want to say he is more talented, but KAT was born to play basketball. I feel like Wiggins could have been world class in 20 different sports.
longstrangetrip wrote:Missed the game last night so it's great to catch up through the GDT. Wow, our PFs shoot 4-23, and we win by 14 on the road! A quick look at the box score would lead to the conclusion that another strong game by our Big 2 won this game...what a couple studs they are! But LST wouldn't be LST if he didn't point out again the two key factors he thinks lead to wins:
1) Minutes for Tyus Jones. The guy has always been a winner, and he is showing us that pedigree translates to the NBA as well. I'm not keeping track of this stat anymore, but our record when Tyus plays more than 10 minutes is extraordinary. He didn't shoot well last night, but 5 assists against one turnover and a great plus minus is indicative of the kind of minutes he can give us.
2) Play the bench. Hallelujah...Thibs got out of his comfort zone and played the bench 95 minutes...a rare game where our bench had more minutes than there's! And look at the results. Our stars simply play better late game defense and don't have late game collapses when Thibs gives then the proper rest. And a team-leading plus 27 and 23 for Belly and Tyus, respectively, shows the kind of value they can provide when Thibs gives them a chance. Good on Thibs...keep it up!
Sure, the Kings are not a great team...but a 14 point win on the road is taking care of business. The rotation adjustments that Thibs has made in the past couple weeks as exactly what we have needed all season, and positive evidence that he is flexible enough to make the necessary changes he needed to make to turn this season around. The playoffs are still a long shot, but Thibs' recent coaching style has given me some confidence that he may be the right guy to take this talented roster to the next level. The team is 13-10 in their last 23 games despite Zach LaVine being out for most of those games. The rest of the season is tough, but the way we are playing tells me there will be many more wins coming that Q and Tim (and I) didn't expect.
Yeah, Tyus is proving to be a very worthy rotation player and a very capable backup PG. I don't think Thibs will ever trust him as his starting PG over Dunn due solely to defensive reasons. There is no question he's the better overall PG right now, but given the caliber of starting level PGs in the league, Thibs probably thinks Tyus would get overwhelmed too many nights.
Ya thibs gave tyus a low five after he knocked the ball out of bounds off a kings player. I was in shock
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Towns isn't as talented as Wiggins, but he plays so damn hard. The energy he expends is really impressive. Andrew had great energy tonight too.
Uh, no. If you look at their skills relative to the position they play and their years of NBA experience, I think KAT is hands down more talented. There is no big man that can score in the same variety of ways KAT is able to and he does it more efficiently than Wiggins. Heck, he even averages more assists than Wiggins. Neither are good overall defenders yet.
All of that being said, Wiggins has been coming on strong lately. I hope it's a debate we can have for years to come.
I agree this very much. As good and consistent as Wiggins have been in last 18 games, his numbers have been still inferior what KAT has had during same time.
Wiggins in last 18 games has 27.7 pts, 3.9rbs, 2.8 asts, 1.6 stls, 2.1 TOs with 58.6 TS%. Those are really terrific numbers and that 18 games stretch is by far most impressive streak of games that Wiggins has had during his career.
But KAT's numbers in last 18 games have been even more impressive. His line: 28.9 pts, 12.7 rbs, 2.9 asts, 1.3 blks, 2.6 TOs with 66.7 TS% is really insane when you consider the scoring efficiency and volume.
I'm not talking about numbers, I'm talking about talent. If you've been listening to the local broadcast you would have heard Jim Pete saying the same thing. And Jim Pete saying he's heard the same thing from our coaches and opposing coaches. I'm not breaking new ground with these statements.
Right, never mind the numbers or J-Pete. Instead, let's break it down into individual skills since it's the sum of one's skills that equals talent. What skills is Wiggins superior to KAT on?
Form my perspective, KAT is the superior scorer, shooter, passer, and rebounder. He also has above average handles for his position, whereas Wiggins has average at best handles for his position. Wiggins may be a bit more advanced defensively, but he also has one more year than KAT in the NBA and learning defensive schemes is much more complex for a big.
My point isn't to knock Wiggins, but more to highlight just how talented KAT is. I don't need numbers to tell me this (even though they help prove the point anyway).
Doesn't raw athletic ability have to factor into talent? Is it just the sum of current skills that factor into talent? I don't believe so. I respect your perspective on this but I certainly don't share it. I could contest any of the scoring, shooting, and passing skills you reference. I'm not trying to knock KAT either, he's supremely talented. He certainly plays harder and gets more out of his ability than Andrew does out of his (at this point). But Andrew has more raw talent. Whether he takes advantage of it and becomes the better player is the question. I'm betting he does.
I've heard Peterson and Benz gush about Wiggins as MVP recently... and for the season. I don't know about that. I think it's shortchanging Towns' consistently very good to nearing greatness offense.
That being said... who cares.
This is what Wolves fans have been waiting and waiting for. A significant stretch of promising play and even dominance from its key young guys ---- that leads to wins.
