Sam Mitchell coaching thread

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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728] »

longstrangetrip wrote:
monsterpile wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:Really interesting Robson article. I was listening to the post-game press conference, and shook my head when I heard the ill-informed question...honestly, I thought it was Zgoda asking the question. But I thought Mitchell's belittling answer was way out of line. I get that Sam was unhappy about the loss and didn't want to have to listen to any questions, much less a dumb one, but that's why coaches are paid millions...to win ball games while juggling a challenging PR role at the same time. Flip understood this, but Sam doesn't. It surprises me, because he was never this defensive when he was a player. But Robson does a good job of describing the difference in pressure of being a coach vs. being a player.

I don't think Robson has it in for Sam and actually agree with almost everything in his article...I think it's very fair. He admits that he has been a huge Zach LaVine detractor since his career started, and especially with him at PG, but has come around as Zach's improvement has become impossible to ignore. And he gives Mitchell credit for his development as well as the development of some of our other youngsters. But Robson's main point is well taken...Sam does the fans a disservice when his defensiveness doesn't allow the involved fan, or sportswriter for that matter, to understand the reasons for decisions he makes. Robson makes a great point...''''what were you thinking" can be either exploratory or blaming, and Sam always seems to take it as the latter.

I am obviously a big fan of Sam as a player and a coach, but I find his attitude toward the public part of his job childish. I actually watch more press conferences now than I did when Flip was coach, because I want to see what is going to happen. It reminds me of how I always watched Donald Rumsfeld when he was a guest on Meet the Press...you never knew when an innocent question from Tim Russert was going to trigger his defensiveness and set him off. I hope that Sam becomes aware of this article (I'm sure he will be) and uses it to modify his behavior. As Robson says, he's a smart guy. And I think he will get the logic that he needs to help the sportswriters become smarter by understanding what he is doing. I'll be watching the post-game tonight to see if he is any softer.


LST you have been Sam's biggest supporter here and so for you to be this frustrated with him says something. Unless Sam has some calculated reason for the way he has been acting (which I wondered early on if it was a little calculated) and he doesn't soften up you have to wonder who else he is belittling or will belittle. I just read a little more about Mark Jackson being fired. The owner said he didn't get along with a number of people in the organization. Will Sam end up having that problem in addition to the media? Who is gonna make the call if that happens? It's gonna be real interesting to see how things pan out.


I'm not a psychologist, monster, but I suspect Sam's defensiveness doesn't come from "smartest man in the room" syndrome, but rather from insecurity. I think he knows he has a good basketball mind, but I also think he is flummoxed by how to work his rotations. I'm sympathetic. Rotation decisions are pretty easy on some of the more established teams, but the wolves have some really interesting questions. And despite the certainty you can read over at rubechat as to how the rotations should work, they're much more nuanced than the typical fan thinks. I think coaching the wolves is one of the most challenging coaching jobs out there today, but also potentially the most rewarding. I think that's why this board is so interesting this season, because there are so many different ways for this team to line up and most of us have fairly strong positions on what is the correct direction. I think Sam also has a clear vision of what he should be doing, but also understands the complex situation he is in and that he is going to be challenged regularly. And that's where his defensiveness doesn't serve him well. He needs to take a deep breath, be confident with his answers but not demeaning, and give the public what we deserve to know.


Sam's clear vision has led to 3 starting lineup changes since training camp. That's not a clear vision. That's guess and check. That's his biggest problem. He's not properly communicating his vision, nor is he properly executing it. Defiant coaches with a plan are a lot better than one's who are just guessing along the way. Who's to say his guesses are better than ours when he turns on his own guesses so quickly and never tries ours? He does nothing to instill confidence in the fan base that he's the smart guy we should be following because he goes against his own decisions relatively quickly. That's what the media is trying to dig into and my sense is he has no real vision which is why the media is still digging and without answers. He's just guessing. I follow several T Wolves writers who post on AWAW's and other sites and they always write great articles trying to convince the fan base of the vision the coach is trying to follow on the court. They try to sell us on why moves the coach is making are a good thing and the right thing. Hell, McPherson literally just switched to the Lavine at SG side like two weeks ago that's how long he was willing to believe in the vision that Zach is a PG. They don't have those articles this year because they have no idea because Sam has no idea.
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Monster
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by Monster »

Carlos Danger wrote:
Q12543 wrote:
monsterpile wrote:Just thinking out loud here but could Sam's handling of the media be one of the reason's Flip wasn't interested in Sam as the long term guy?


I think Flip wasn't interested in him as the long-term guy because he already picked himself. Seriously, did anyone really think Flip was going to give up the coaching position anytime soon? Any outreach Flip allegedly did with the likes of Izzo, Hoiberg, etc. always seemed half-hearted.


That's almost another (separate) thread in it's own which has been beaten many times. I tend to agree with you - Flip was never going to step aside anytime soon. But I know there were a few on here who were pretty adamant that he was holding out for the perfect guy to take over. At the end of day, all I can go by is what I saw happening....Flip coached last year and was planning on coaching this year. If it takes three years to find the right guy - you are probably not looking too hard IMO.


Ok yeah so Flip wasn't giving the job to Sam for a bunch of reasons partly because I doubt Flip would have thought Sam would have been a better coach than himself. I guess my point in bringing this topic up (which is probably another thread also bit for a later time later in the season) is what reasons did Flip give Glen after he interviewed Sam for the coaching job? What if one of them was "Glen you know Sam he says what he is gonna say and I have concerns about him being the guy day in and day out presenting the team to the outside world. I would love for him to be on the sidelines with me though he would be a clear asset." Tons of speculation there but IF Flip shared that concern AND if Sam plays that concern out all year it could be something Glen really has in his mind when he considers the future of Sam past this year.
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Monster
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by Monster »

khans2k5 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:
monsterpile wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:Really interesting Robson article. I was listening to the post-game press conference, and shook my head when I heard the ill-informed question...honestly, I thought it was Zgoda asking the question. But I thought Mitchell's belittling answer was way out of line. I get that Sam was unhappy about the loss and didn't want to have to listen to any questions, much less a dumb one, but that's why coaches are paid millions...to win ball games while juggling a challenging PR role at the same time. Flip understood this, but Sam doesn't. It surprises me, because he was never this defensive when he was a player. But Robson does a good job of describing the difference in pressure of being a coach vs. being a player.

I don't think Robson has it in for Sam and actually agree with almost everything in his article...I think it's very fair. He admits that he has been a huge Zach LaVine detractor since his career started, and especially with him at PG, but has come around as Zach's improvement has become impossible to ignore. And he gives Mitchell credit for his development as well as the development of some of our other youngsters. But Robson's main point is well taken...Sam does the fans a disservice when his defensiveness doesn't allow the involved fan, or sportswriter for that matter, to understand the reasons for decisions he makes. Robson makes a great point...''''what were you thinking" can be either exploratory or blaming, and Sam always seems to take it as the latter.

I am obviously a big fan of Sam as a player and a coach, but I find his attitude toward the public part of his job childish. I actually watch more press conferences now than I did when Flip was coach, because I want to see what is going to happen. It reminds me of how I always watched Donald Rumsfeld when he was a guest on Meet the Press...you never knew when an innocent question from Tim Russert was going to trigger his defensiveness and set him off. I hope that Sam becomes aware of this article (I'm sure he will be) and uses it to modify his behavior. As Robson says, he's a smart guy. And I think he will get the logic that he needs to help the sportswriters become smarter by understanding what he is doing. I'll be watching the post-game tonight to see if he is any softer.


LST you have been Sam's biggest supporter here and so for you to be this frustrated with him says something. Unless Sam has some calculated reason for the way he has been acting (which I wondered early on if it was a little calculated) and he doesn't soften up you have to wonder who else he is belittling or will belittle. I just read a little more about Mark Jackson being fired. The owner said he didn't get along with a number of people in the organization. Will Sam end up having that problem in addition to the media? Who is gonna make the call if that happens? It's gonna be real interesting to see how things pan out.


I'm not a psychologist, monster, but I suspect Sam's defensiveness doesn't come from "smartest man in the room" syndrome, but rather from insecurity. I think he knows he has a good basketball mind, but I also think he is flummoxed by how to work his rotations. I'm sympathetic. Rotation decisions are pretty easy on some of the more established teams, but the wolves have some really interesting questions. And despite the certainty you can read over at rubechat as to how the rotations should work, they're much more nuanced than the typical fan thinks. I think coaching the wolves is one of the most challenging coaching jobs out there today, but also potentially the most rewarding. I think that's why this board is so interesting this season, because there are so many different ways for this team to line up and most of us have fairly strong positions on what is the correct direction. I think Sam also has a clear vision of what he should be doing, but also understands the complex situation he is in and that he is going to be challenged regularly. And that's where his defensiveness doesn't serve him well. He needs to take a deep breath, be confident with his answers but not demeaning, and give the public what we deserve to know.


Sam's clear vision has led to 3 starting lineup changes since training camp. That's not a clear vision. That's guess and check. That's his biggest problem. He's not properly communicating his vision, nor is he properly executing it. Defiant coaches with a plan are a lot better than one's who are just guessing along the way. Who's to say his guesses are better than ours when he turns on his own guesses so quickly and never tries ours? He does nothing to instill confidence in the fan base that he's the smart guy we should be following because he goes against his own decisions relatively quickly. That's what the media is trying to dig into and my sense is he has no real vision which is why the media is still digging and without answers. He's just guessing. I follow several T Wolves writers who post on AWAW's and other sites and they always write great articles trying to convince the fan base of the vision the coach is trying to follow on the court. They try to sell us on why moves the coach is making are a good thing and the right thing. Hell, McPherson literally just switched to the Lavine at SG side like two weeks ago that's how long he was willing to believe in the vision that Zach is a PG. They don't have those articles this year because they have no idea because Sam has no idea.


Good post although I perceive a few things differently but it doesn't mean I am right. Along the lines of what Brit said in his article is Sam isn't communicating a clear vision to people on the outside that he isn't communicating it to the people that matter the most...the players. Maybe he is being clear to players. It looks like guys are bought in right now to me but I am not saying I am 100% convinced and Sam has done some whacky things no doubt. I guess based on the roster at the beginning of the season I was expecting a lot of whackiness so I am giving Sam more leeway. I think your position is absolutely valid though no doubt.
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Mstermisty [enjin:6864008]
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by Mstermisty [enjin:6864008] »

I think Sam is good with the players, runs good practices, but I'm not impressed with him as a basketball strategist. One basic example is he hasn't proven he can draw up a decent play in crunch time. Take tonight's Clippers game--Wolves are down 3, why not draw up a play to have KAT pop out and take a shot? The guy was 3-3 and if the Clippers switched on him he could probably shoot over a smaller guy.
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kekgeek
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by kekgeek »

Mstermisty wrote:I think Sam is good with the players, runs good practices, but I'm not impressed with him as a basketball strategist. One basic example is he hasn't proven he can draw up a decent play in crunch time. Take tonight's Clippers game--Wolves are down 3, why not draw up a play to have KAT pop out and take a shot? The guy was 3-3 and if the Clippers switched on him he could probably shoot over a smaller guy.

I agree sort of end if the games plays have been sub-par but the wolves are 5th in the nba in scoring from baseline out of bounds and out of a time out
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Lipoli390
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by Lipoli390 »

Q12543 wrote:
monsterpile wrote:Just thinking out loud here but could Sam's handling of the media be one of the reason's Flip wasn't interested in Sam as the long term guy?


I think Flip wasn't interested in him as the long-term guy because he already picked himself. Seriously, did anyone really think Flip was going to give up the coaching position anytime soon? Any outreach Flip allegedly did with the likes of Izzo, Hoiberg, etc. always seemed half-hearted.


Q - You are almost right, but Flip did actually offer the job to Izzo and Izzo turned it down. Flip also discussed with JVG the possibility of JVG taking over. Flip also talked to Fred and told Fred he saw him as his leading candidate to take over. But he also told Fred he wanted to coach at least through this season. The Bulls offer was a bird in the hand that Fred couldn't turn down. Bottom line is that, while Flip's #1 choice was always himself for now, he had a serious list of possible successors and Mitchel was not among them.
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Timberpups [enjin:15163817]
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by Timberpups [enjin:15163817] »

Lip, what do you think the chances are of Sam coming back as head coach next season? Still holding out hope for JVG or Thibs. :anxious:
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

I wasn't able to watch Sam post-game, but I found Robson's tweet informative. He tweeted "FWIW Mitchell expansive and relatively relaxed in postgame tonight after tough loss". That's what I was hoping for...that he might learn something from Britt's article and change his face (#rickytoalexei) postgame. Maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks. Did anyone else watch the postgame and agree with Robson that Sam's demeanor was different? It would be helpful to us as interested fans if he would calmly explain his thought process after games.
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Monster
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by Monster »

longstrangetrip wrote:I wasn't able to watch Sam post-game, but I found Robson's tweet informative. He tweeted "FWIW Mitchell expansive and relatively relaxed in postgame tonight after tough loss". That's what I was hoping for...that he might learn something from Britt's article and change his face (#rickytoalexei) postgame. Maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks. Did anyone else watch the postgame and agree with Robson that Sam's demeanor was different? It would be helpful to us as interested fans if he would calmly explain his thought process after games.


You can listen to it yourself but yeah Sam was cool.

On the latest you betch basketball show AP guy Jon said that the Wolves PR folks have talked to Sam about chilling out etc. He brought up how Pop was not popular at one point and his job was called for and Pop chilled out a bit. Obviously Jon said Pop wins etc and if you are going to be that way you gotta win bigtime. Jon also said to a certain extent some of the media guys have tried to communicate to Sam it's not been a good thing the way he has treated them in a negative way. He said Sam needs to realize the way he treats the press in a negative thing in the way both Sam and and th Wolves are perceived by the fans. Jon said aside from all this he really feels like Sam has done a pretty good job all things considered and wished he would communicate better so fans could get behind him or at least not assume the worst every time.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Sam Mitchell coaching thread

Post by Lipoli390 »

Timberpups wrote:Lip, what do you think the chances are of Sam coming back as head coach next season? Still holding out hope for JVG or Thibs. :anxious:


Right now, I'd say the odds of Sam coming back as head coach after this season are less than 50/50. But it ultimately depends on how things go the rest of this season -- the Wolves win/loss record, whether we make the playoffs, whether Sam can consistently control his arrogance at press conferences as he did last night and whether the players continue to have confidence in him. If we make the playoffs, I think it's likely Sam comes back. If not, all the other factors kick in and I'd put the chances of him returning at between 20-40%.

I don't trust Glen Taylor to make the right decision. Although I criticized Flip for holding on to the head coaching position, I trusted him to ultimately make the right choice for his replacement. Just consider the guys I know for a fact he was considering -- JVG, Fred Hoiberg, Tom Izzo and Joerger. Unfortunately, Izzo turned the job down and Joerger decided to stay with Memphis before Flip extended him an offer. After that, Flip decided he wasn't ready to let go of the position. There's no question though that Flip and Fred are very close and Flip had him on his list as his successor in a year or two. Glen's pattern is to stay within the country club and hire guys he knows and likes. That favors Sam and I don't see Milt Newton as a strong enough presence to sway Mr. Taylor. On the other hand, Glen wants this team to win, had incredible respect for Flip and knows Sam was not on Flip's short list.

I admit that some people think that bringing Sam back would be the right decision. Others are on the fence. I've seen enough to make up my mind that Sam's not the right choice after this season.
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