lipoli390 wrote:Jon K just on the radio. He said the Wolves are really hurting for lack of 3-point shooting. He said the failure to add any three-point shooting to day gives the Pacers a lot of leverage in holding out for our OKC pick to get Miles. He gently questioned using the room exception to sign a guy with a career 35% 3-point average. The more I reflect on this latest signing, the more I wonder about Thibs as PBO. I like Crawford, but he just doesn't give us what we really need and there are certainly better options out there for our RE.
We should be trying to sign a 40% 3 point shooter right now regardless. They need to make that happen and show the Pacers were aren't desperate. If he signs another PG.. it better be near 40% 3 point shooter as well, otherwise don't bother and use Crawford as PG#3.
PS. Future -- If I am not mistaken, Thibs has not made a single off-season move you like!
That's correct, I have not liked a single move. I accept the Butler trade, and realize that we did come out winning that trade. Didn't like it at first, have slightly warmed up to it. But I firmly believe we come out in 2-3 years regretting this route.
The subsequent Ricky deal, that was made "necessary" because of the Butler trade,I didn't and don't like. Again, I understand why Thibs made the deal, but it wasn't "necessary". When you dig into Teague you will find that his outside shooting is also a question mark. Which is the reason we targeted him, yes? Where he makes his money is in the mid range (kind of like Ricky) in the pick and roll, but I thought the idea was to have the ball in Butlers hands? So he is slightly better at outside shootinging than Ricky. Yet, he is nowhere near the gifted passer or defender that Ricky is. It isn't even a lateral move, it was a downgrade for 5mil more, for a season more. Look at all the advanced sites and they tout Ricky as a borderline allstar entering his prime, and Teague as a league average point guard.
The Taj Gibson signing was terrible. Complete bullshit. Spin it whatever way you want, but it is not a good signing. Butler called Taj, wanted him. Thibs called Taj, wanted him. Taj got paid. Another country club move.
Jamal Crawford is not what we needed with our RE. Is he a terrible player? No. But he isn't very good anymore. He is a ballstopper. We needed a defender or sharpshooter with that exception. He is neither. Thibs is going to be staggering our "big 4". They will have the ball in their hands. Crawford needs the ball to be effective. Again, 41% and 35% are his career averages. At the minimum? Sure, sign him. With our only exception and chance at signing someone without a trade? Hell no. He's an end of the bench guy, not a sixth man anymore. Shabazz should have been kept instead.
As you can see, I do not like any of the deals. Only the Butler trade is impactful. The rest are lateral or negative. There is too much praise around here just because moves are being made. I argue that none of them are the correct move.
I'd like to see someone who is all in on these advanced metrics post a complete composite of advanced stats comparing Rubio and Teague.
Doesn't Carroll make significantly more than Cole? Doesnt Cole have a partial guarantee a year from now? Pacers can ask for a first all they want but the value isn't there for Minny. The Raptors moved off of significant salary to give a first that won't be a lottery pick.
TheFuture wrote:Just slightly different circumstances. An MVP his first year there. A prime Noah, Gibson, Deng, etc. etc. Quite a bit different than what we had here, and the record reflected that. Oh, this was also in the East. Not to mention, that Chicago team was mostly gutted and Fred Hoiberg (many claim he is a terrible coach) still got them to 40 and 42 wins.
Further, his defensive reputation is built on the back of players who were already great defensive players. Both in Chicago and in Boston.
When Thibs got there
2nd year player: Towns and Taj
3rd year players: Wiggins, lavine and rose
4th year players: noah and Gorgui
Ricky was a 6th year player and Deng was a 7th year player.
So thibs inherited a veteran wolves group on their primes right.
Oh wait no! The wolves were young, the Bulls were young. Bulls young players became better than the Wolves players.
It is easy to blame the coach because we can just get a new one. It is scary to blame out young players because it means another rebuild is on its way.
He had an MVP and a DPOY candidate right when he walked into Chicago. The roster differences are very far apart just right there. I won't go into the depth they had, as I've done that in another post. Also remember to consider East and West.
Rose wasn't an all nba player before thibs got there and noah hadn't made an all defensive team. I guess he inherited a DOPY and MVP candidate. They didn't make that next step until thibs got there.
So it is the coaches fault that wiggins was not as far along as rose when Thibs got there both in year 3.
Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Doesn't Carroll make significantly more than Cole? Doesnt Cole have a partial guarantee a year from now? Pacers can ask for a first all they want but the value isn't there for Minny. The Raptors moved off of significant salary to give a first that won't be a lottery pick.
There is no reason to take on 9 million in total salary (7 million this year and 2 million next) for a 2nd round pick as some people have suggested. The Pacers (or another team) should demand more than that or at least multiple 2nd rounders. You can buy those picks for cash if you really want them and for less than the salary they would have to take on for Aldrich.
Miles is the guy that they want to sign. As more signings roll in (and teams absorb salaries in trades) his leverage starts going down also. If he wants to sign with another team for a decent chunk money fine that means the Wolves have a better chance at getting another worthwhile player for the vet min. The infactualtion with Miles is getting out of hand. There will be other worthwhile shooters available for the vet min. will they be as good as Miles? No, but they won't cost like 5x as much money and won't cost a 1st round pick.
Doogie had said the Wolves were waiting on two situations to play out before moving on with their offseason. The assumption was Crawford was one, and Miles the other.
Do I assume this means our off-season can carry on!
Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Doesn't Carroll make significantly more than Cole? Doesnt Cole have a partial guarantee a year from now? Pacers can ask for a first all they want but the value isn't there for Minny. The Raptors moved off of significant salary to give a first that won't be a lottery pick.
There is no reason to take on 9 million in total salary (7 million this year and 2 million next) for a 2nd round pick as some people have suggested. The Pacers (or another team) should demand more than that or at least multiple 2nd rounders. You can buy those picks for cash if you really want them and for less than the salary they would have to take on for Aldrich.
Miles is the guy that they want to sign. As more signings roll in (and teams absorb salaries in trades) his leverage starts going down also. If he wants to sign with another team for a decent chunk money fine that means the Wolves have a better chance at getting another worthwhile player for the vet min. The infactualtion with Miles is getting out of hand. There will be other worthwhile shooters available for the vet min. will they be as good as Miles? No, but they won't cost like 5x as much money and won't cost a 1st round pick.
I don't even want Miles. I'm just saying the Pacers can't demand a first if that's what Brooklyn got.
Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Doesn't Carroll make significantly more than Cole? Doesnt Cole have a partial guarantee a year from now? Pacers can ask for a first all they want but the value isn't there for Minny. The Raptors moved off of significant salary to give a first that won't be a lottery pick.
There is no reason to take on 9 million in total salary (7 million this year and 2 million next) for a 2nd round pick as some people have suggested. The Pacers (or another team) should demand more than that or at least multiple 2nd rounders. You can buy those picks for cash if you really want them and for less than the salary they would have to take on for Aldrich.
Miles is the guy that they want to sign. As more signings roll in (and teams absorb salaries in trades) his leverage starts going down also. If he wants to sign with another team for a decent chunk money fine that means the Wolves have a better chance at getting another worthwhile player for the vet min. The infactualtion with Miles is getting out of hand. There will be other worthwhile shooters available for the vet min. will they be as good as Miles? No, but they won't cost like 5x as much money and won't cost a 1st round pick.
I don't even want Miles. I'm just saying the Pacers can't demand a first if that's what Brooklyn got.
Well they got a pretty good PG in Joeseph on a good contract for Miles who was leaving. That's heck of a lot better than a 2nd rounder you said they should just take.
Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Doesn't Carroll make significantly more than Cole? Doesnt Cole have a partial guarantee a year from now? Pacers can ask for a first all they want but the value isn't there for Minny. The Raptors moved off of significant salary to give a first that won't be a lottery pick.
There is no reason to take on 9 million in total salary (7 million this year and 2 million next) for a 2nd round pick as some people have suggested. The Pacers (or another team) should demand more than that or at least multiple 2nd rounders. You can buy those picks for cash if you really want them and for less than the salary they would have to take on for Aldrich.
Miles is the guy that they want to sign. As more signings roll in (and teams absorb salaries in trades) his leverage starts going down also. If he wants to sign with another team for a decent chunk money fine that means the Wolves have a better chance at getting another worthwhile player for the vet min. The infactualtion with Miles is getting out of hand. There will be other worthwhile shooters available for the vet min. will they be as good as Miles? No, but they won't cost like 5x as much money and won't cost a 1st round pick.
I don't even want Miles. I'm just saying the Pacers can't demand a first if that's what Brooklyn got.
Well they got a pretty good PG in Joeseph on a good contract for Miles who was leaving. That's heck of a lot better than a 2nd rounder you said they should just take.
I never said Indy should take amything. I said the value isnt there for Minny to give a first that has similar value to what Brooklyn got for taking on much more money. Cole will be a good asset for teams looking for money next summer. Carroll will not.
