Thibs Grade As PBO

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I have no idea what the CARMELO bit is (can someone provide a link?), but it reinforces even more the opinion several of us have about this offseason. The Butler deal is nothing short of grand theft larceny...getting a stud for two projects essentially. But Thibs needed to stop there, because his other three deals are pure garbage! I'm more unhappy with the Rubio deal than ever after seeing the "borderline all-star" grade" :(.

[Lipoli390]

I have no idea what the CARMELO bit is (can someone provide a link?), but it reinforces even more the opinion several of us have about this offseason. The Butler deal is nothing short of grand theft larceny...getting a stud for two projects essentially. But Thibs needed to stop there, because his other three deals are pure garbage! I'm more unhappy with the Rubio deal than ever after seeing the "borderline all-star" grade" :(.

Here's the link. It's just one tool and obviously not perfect. But it predicted the success of K. Leonard and the Greek Freak before anyone else did.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/

[m4gor [enjin:6667447]]

I would give B+ to Thibs as of now

Last offseason B+:
Thibs tried to go for some guys but could not get price he wanted. I would say that on such a crazy market staying put was probably the best thing to do, as massive overpay for mediocre talent would set us back for years. Also it gave Thibs whole season to evaluate what we have here. Dunn pick did not pan out so that is why not A, even though that draft class looks really bad as of now.

This offseason so far B+:

Butler trade is crazy good, it is A. A lot of has been said about it so, i am not going to repeat that.

Teague/Rubio trade is A for me. There will be a ton of PnR played by him and KAT, Teague is like top10 percent guy when it comes to high PnR and Rubio is embarassingly bad at that, so KAT will have much easier time this year getting ball at triple threat position. With Butler and Wig you do not want Rubio dribbling around for 20 seconds anyway. As i said in past Rubio is not good enough to build around him, but you kind of have to to make him work, as he is so min/max in multiple categories. Also i hope that threads in here are not going to change into Rubio threads every single time, that for itself is worth a fortune :-) .

Rest of moves C:
Taj is overpay and not a good use of cap space. I would rather drafted Collins (as PF/SF) and have C.J. Miles and Baynes for 11mil, or C.J. Miles and Dedmon for 14 mil. I am OK with Jamal though, you need some bench scoring at times :-).

Final note:
Thib got a team with a lot of young talent and pieces which not matched terribly well on either side of a ball and it took him 1 year to transform us into legit 4-6 seed contender (that is how i see wolves as of now), so some of you guys should be less critical i think. Landing Butler is miracle on its own, everybody wanted him and he is on great contract for many years too. I mean who else was there with franchise changing potential? Hayward was out of reach and George would be 1 year lease, who else was there?

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Good to see some love for the Rubio/Teague swap, m4gor...if you're correct, this team is going to be very, very good!

I don't think you're going to get your wish for sizably fewer Rubio threads though. I predict that there will be a lot of box score checking and stat comparisons next season, and that Rubio vs. Teague will be the number one topic on this board for a long time.

[Monster]

Good to see some love for the Rubio/Teague swap, m4gor...if you're correct, this team is going to be very, very good!

I don't think you're going to get your wish for sizably fewer Rubio threads though. I predict that there will be a lot of box score checking and stat comparisons next season, and that Rubio vs. Teague will be the number one topic on this board for a long time.

I think a lot of the grade someone gives the Rubio Teague swap depends on how you see their fit with this team going forward. M4gor make his case for Teague. I'll add a bit of thoughts.

First off let's be realistic and agree that analyzing the fit of either Rubio and Teague is theoretical at this point. We have seen Rubio play here for years and we have seen him with Wiggins Towns and Dieng but adding Butler is a pretty significant change. We have seen Rubio game after game so we know him inside and out. He may be somewhat less theoretical because he was already here but his fit is still theoretical.

So building a team you want to build around your best players right? There will be disagreements about whether Teague or Rubio fits better. The big questions about each player are:

Can Rubio shoot well enough? If he can the fit gets a lot better. If not it becomes problematic.

How good will Teague be as a guy that can play well off the ball? In theory he should be pretty good but he has been one of the top offensive guys on his team for years so we have to see how it goes. After looking into him more I feel a lot better about it than I did before. I got the impression he thought he was a star PG but I think that was more people claiming he was turning into a star a few years ago and he turned out to just be pretty good PG. nothing wrong with that espcially for this team where he will be the 4th option.

I think really with both guys you have to wonder how they will fit but to me the upside of Teague is that he is much more likely to be useful if you take the ball out of his hands. Rubio? We saw how that went last year. How much really can you expect to give him the ball and let him do his thing without taking away from what Butler Wiggins and Towns can do? It seems in theory Teague is a better fit for this team to compliment those guys. His 3 point shooting MIGHT look better playing off those guys also.

The fit with Rubio in Utah looks very good. They have shooters and some bigs that will likely playoff Rubio really well. If he has good success there I don't think it means we made the wrong choice and we should have kept him unless he really starts hitting shots which idk we will see. In Utah the way that team is set up they may actually need him to pour in some points which could be good for him. The Wolves? They have 3 guys that could combine for 70+ points by themselves. That's a reason Teague's scoring numbers could look really pedestrian but he could still be a good addition espcially if his efficienty goes up.

The bottom line for me is I truely think the likeliness of Teague being a better fit with the Wolves top players is very high espcially compared to Rubio. I think to some extent that hasn't been fleshed out enough but some of that is the belief of Rubio becoming a better shooter. We will see I'm wishing him well in Utah but honestly I'm really not worried about having buter's recourse with this deal which...to be honest feels really strange.