bleedspeed177 wrote:My all PF starting 5 for Wolves would be.
PG: Bjelica
SG: Towns
SF: AB
PF: KG
C: Dieng
And Payne off the bench! Too bad we don't have Hummel anymore, would be a great 7th man
CoolBreeze's 2 Things I haven't Liked About the Offseason Plus 1
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BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]
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Re: CoolBreeze's 2 Things I haven't Liked About the Offseason Plus 1
And Payne off the bench! Too bad we don't have Hummel anymore, would be a great 7th man
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: CoolBreeze's 2 Things I haven't Liked About the Offseason Plus 1
TheSP wrote:Q12543 wrote:
What I didn't like:
1) Trading three 2nd rounders for a late 1st rounder. Bad move.
2) Flip staying on as head coach. An even worse move.
3) Not upgrading the backup PG position with a guy that can defend. Our defense is a major hole for this team.
1. How many second rounders pan out and provide even a single worthy season of NBA play? I don't mind trading three 2nds for a player you really want quite as much as I do selling late 1sts.
2. Not optimal in my mind either. On the other hand this team is going to progress, and is going to become a very attractive destination over the next year or two. The only remaining question is will Flip be willing to give up the role once they do?
Yeah, I feel even better about the Tyus deal after he was named as the second highest steal of the draft and the second best playmaker (beyond Russell but ahead of Mudiay!) in the rookie poll. In the entire history of the Wolves' organization, I can think of only one player they picked in the second round who ever amounted to anything at all...Pek. And he went as the first pick in the second round only because no team wanted to give a guaranteed contract to a guy that might not come over. Yes, there are scattered examples of second rounders who made it, but more often they end up in Turkey or China. We gave up nothing for the second best playmaker in the draft...that's value in my book.
I agree with Q, though, that it's disappointing that Flip stayed on as coach...even more so now that we know he is undergoing chemotherapy as he battles cancer.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: CoolBreeze's 2 Things I haven't Liked About the Offseason Plus 1
TheSP wrote:Q12543 wrote:
What I didn't like:
1) Trading three 2nd rounders for a late 1st rounder. Bad move.
2) Flip staying on as head coach. An even worse move.
3) Not upgrading the backup PG position with a guy that can defend. Our defense is a major hole for this team.
1. How many second rounders pan out and provide even a single worthy season of NBA play? I don't mind trading three 2nds for a player you really want quite as much as I do selling late 1sts.
2. Not optimal in my mind either. On the other hand this team is going to progress, and is going to become a very attractive destination over the next year or two. The only remaining question is will Flip be willing to give up the role once they do?
On #1, you seem to be differentiating between the late 1st round and early 2nd round (of which we had two top picks) far more than justified. Don't forget, the 2nd round is where we found Craig Smith, Nikola Pekovic, and Bjelica. I'll take the odds of "hitting on" at least one out of three 2nd rounders versus putting all my marbles into one late first rounder. Bad move by Flip. We really don't know what the opportunity cost of that move was, but mathematically, it was a terrible move.
On #2, I would suggest that it is an attractive destination right now because there are minimal expectations and we came off a 16-win season. When you layer in Flip's health situation on top of his double-duty of being POBO and head coach, it's really a shame Glenn didn't step in to assert control. The health issue was the perfect opportunity for him to put his foot down and no one (other than Flip himself) could argue with his logic.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: CoolBreeze's 2 Things I haven't Liked About the Offseason Plus 1
longstrangetrip wrote:TheSP wrote:Q12543 wrote:
What I didn't like:
1) Trading three 2nd rounders for a late 1st rounder. Bad move.
2) Flip staying on as head coach. An even worse move.
3) Not upgrading the backup PG position with a guy that can defend. Our defense is a major hole for this team.
1. How many second rounders pan out and provide even a single worthy season of NBA play? I don't mind trading three 2nds for a player you really want quite as much as I do selling late 1sts.
2. Not optimal in my mind either. On the other hand this team is going to progress, and is going to become a very attractive destination over the next year or two. The only remaining question is will Flip be willing to give up the role once they do?
Yeah, I feel even better about the Tyus deal after he was named as the second highest steal of the draft and the second best playmaker (beyond Russell but ahead of Mudiay!) in the rookie poll. In the entire history of the Wolves' organization, I can think of only one player they picked in the second round who ever amounted to anything at all...Pek. And he went as the first pick in the second round only because no team wanted to give a guaranteed contract to a guy that might not come over. Yes, there are scattered examples of second rounders who made it, but more often they end up in Turkey or China. We gave up nothing for the second best playmaker in the draft...that's value in my book.
I agree with Q, though, that it's disappointing that Flip stayed on as coach...even more so now that we know he is undergoing chemotherapy as he battles cancer.
LST, How many mid to late 1st rounders in Wolves history have added up to anything?
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: CoolBreeze's 2 Things I haven't Liked About the Offseason Plus 1
Q is talking in probabilities, and LST is thinking more empirically. Neither is right or wrong in this case. What it comes down to is the type of player Jones becomes. And we probably won't know that for a couple of years. If Jones becomes at least a reliable rotation player, it was a great trade. If he doesn't, it will go down as a poor one.
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: CoolBreeze's 2 Things I haven't Liked About the Offseason Plus 1
I'm not going to fit it into a 2+1 format, but since this is cool's like/dislike thread, here's what I haven't liked, what I'm neutral about, and what I've liked since year end:
[/What I haven't liked:b]
1) Flip's decision to continue as coach and PBO. I don't know for sure, but I think a full court press, including more money than the Bulls were willing to pay, could have landed Hoiberg. I don't agree with some posters here who say Flip didn't make much of an effort last summer to find a coach other than himself, but it seems that there was no effort at all this summer. Flip likes the core he has put together, and he is going to coach them until Glen says he can't. I only hope that he listens to all the buzz out there about his antiquated offense, and deemphasizes the long 2-point offense.
2) Most of our Summer League performance. Payne showed flashes of what Flip traded a first round pick for, and LaVine was very solid offensively in the few minutes he played, but other than that we were not competitive when Zach wasn't playing.
3) The lack of information shared with the public about Rubio and Pek. Both had surgery after season-ending injuries, and the team has given us very few reports on their progress over the summer.
4) The team's apparent lack of interest in Anthony Bennett. Yes, I understand he has not played like a lottery pick his first two seasons, but if his issue is confidence, not talent (as Jim Peterson and Flip keep saying), ignoring him in the off-season is the worst approach.
What I am neutral about:
1) The KG signing. I want him on our team for at least next year, but I was disappointed he didn't offer a Duncan-like discount. I understand it doesn't mean much since we were not going o be in the free agent market anyway, but I think it would have been a good symbolic move,
2) The Tyus Jones pick. I was on board with Flip looking for a pass-first, defensive-minded PG with his second rounders, but instead he traded them for the pick that turned into Jones. Even though Jones (and free agent pick up Miller) are not what I wanted defensively, I'm at least neutral on this pick after watching Tyus in the July scrimmage and hearing how the other rookies rave about him. I'm not expecting much from him this year and hope that he doesn't have to play much, but I think Flip may have secured a reliable playmaking guard for at least the next decade.
3) Bringing Bjelica over. I'm somewhat excited about adding a EuroLeague MVP to our roster, but my optimism is guarded. He's in his late 20s and not particularly athletic or defensive-oriented, but he does seem to have a smooth offensive game. I'm hoping he can perform close to his Euro level.
What I have liked:
1) The Towns pick. I understand all the pre-season accolades being given to Okafor, and Okafor certainly looked like the better prospect in SL. But there's no question in my mind that Towns is a much more versatile player and the better prospect in the long run. Much of his struggles in SL had to do with lack of lower body strength...he just got pushed around by centers that are not very good. But not only do I think Towns has the frame and mindset to become a physical inside player, he also has potential as a very good stretch 4. I think he is a future all star.
2) The Miller signing. The Wolves have struggled to keep their momentum whenever Rubio was out, either for rest or injury, and Miller is going to allow us fans to relax much more when Ricky is not on the court. He won't score much from the outside or do much to stop the backup PG he is guarding, but he will protect the ball and leads, score at key moments with his herky-jerky old-man game, and find open looks for our young studs. Plus, unlike our typical Wolf, he almost never gets injured. Very good signing.
3) Being on the sidelines during the free agent feeding frenzy. I understand that Flip put himself in a position where he wasn't able to compete in free agency this year, but it was a comfortable place to be...watching all of our competitors empty their wallets for deals that just made you shake your head and say "WTF!".
4) The free scrimmage in July. Filling the TC on a beautiful summer evening showed me the excitement there is in this town for this team. Most on this board seem to have us in the low to mid 20s in wins again this year, and maybe with injuries we will be there. But I clearly see this as a talented young roster with the ability to challenge for the playoffs, and a quick start could unleash the pent-up support for this team and create a Portland/Sacramento like home-court advantage. Home games weren't very fun the last of last season, except for the few games KG played, but I think the TC could be rocking this year.
[/What I haven't liked:b]
1) Flip's decision to continue as coach and PBO. I don't know for sure, but I think a full court press, including more money than the Bulls were willing to pay, could have landed Hoiberg. I don't agree with some posters here who say Flip didn't make much of an effort last summer to find a coach other than himself, but it seems that there was no effort at all this summer. Flip likes the core he has put together, and he is going to coach them until Glen says he can't. I only hope that he listens to all the buzz out there about his antiquated offense, and deemphasizes the long 2-point offense.
2) Most of our Summer League performance. Payne showed flashes of what Flip traded a first round pick for, and LaVine was very solid offensively in the few minutes he played, but other than that we were not competitive when Zach wasn't playing.
3) The lack of information shared with the public about Rubio and Pek. Both had surgery after season-ending injuries, and the team has given us very few reports on their progress over the summer.
4) The team's apparent lack of interest in Anthony Bennett. Yes, I understand he has not played like a lottery pick his first two seasons, but if his issue is confidence, not talent (as Jim Peterson and Flip keep saying), ignoring him in the off-season is the worst approach.
What I am neutral about:
1) The KG signing. I want him on our team for at least next year, but I was disappointed he didn't offer a Duncan-like discount. I understand it doesn't mean much since we were not going o be in the free agent market anyway, but I think it would have been a good symbolic move,
2) The Tyus Jones pick. I was on board with Flip looking for a pass-first, defensive-minded PG with his second rounders, but instead he traded them for the pick that turned into Jones. Even though Jones (and free agent pick up Miller) are not what I wanted defensively, I'm at least neutral on this pick after watching Tyus in the July scrimmage and hearing how the other rookies rave about him. I'm not expecting much from him this year and hope that he doesn't have to play much, but I think Flip may have secured a reliable playmaking guard for at least the next decade.
3) Bringing Bjelica over. I'm somewhat excited about adding a EuroLeague MVP to our roster, but my optimism is guarded. He's in his late 20s and not particularly athletic or defensive-oriented, but he does seem to have a smooth offensive game. I'm hoping he can perform close to his Euro level.
What I have liked:
1) The Towns pick. I understand all the pre-season accolades being given to Okafor, and Okafor certainly looked like the better prospect in SL. But there's no question in my mind that Towns is a much more versatile player and the better prospect in the long run. Much of his struggles in SL had to do with lack of lower body strength...he just got pushed around by centers that are not very good. But not only do I think Towns has the frame and mindset to become a physical inside player, he also has potential as a very good stretch 4. I think he is a future all star.
2) The Miller signing. The Wolves have struggled to keep their momentum whenever Rubio was out, either for rest or injury, and Miller is going to allow us fans to relax much more when Ricky is not on the court. He won't score much from the outside or do much to stop the backup PG he is guarding, but he will protect the ball and leads, score at key moments with his herky-jerky old-man game, and find open looks for our young studs. Plus, unlike our typical Wolf, he almost never gets injured. Very good signing.
3) Being on the sidelines during the free agent feeding frenzy. I understand that Flip put himself in a position where he wasn't able to compete in free agency this year, but it was a comfortable place to be...watching all of our competitors empty their wallets for deals that just made you shake your head and say "WTF!".
4) The free scrimmage in July. Filling the TC on a beautiful summer evening showed me the excitement there is in this town for this team. Most on this board seem to have us in the low to mid 20s in wins again this year, and maybe with injuries we will be there. But I clearly see this as a talented young roster with the ability to challenge for the playoffs, and a quick start could unleash the pent-up support for this team and create a Portland/Sacramento like home-court advantage. Home games weren't very fun the last of last season, except for the few games KG played, but I think the TC could be rocking this year.
Re: CoolBreeze's 2 Things I haven't Liked About the Offseason Plus 1
bleedspeed177 wrote:SP -
I would have been happy with trading up for Portis, but trading up for Jones was a reach/pr move. I am a big fan of Joseph Young and Guillermo Hernangomez I think both will be solid
Here's where I admit to not watching any college BB outside of a couple tourney games. Given that admission any player outside the top 5 of the draft is a virtual unknown quantity to me and I have no way to judge real value.
Regarding the idea of a PR move, I could be wrong but I give Flip more credit than that. From a team that isn't hesitant about selling late 1sts or any 2nd round pick I have no issue with them trading a few 2nds to move up for a player they believe can develop into a solid rotation player.