khans2k5 wrote:I think Towns is too easy as a foul drawing target to keep in at the end of games. We saw Wiggins even get taken advantage of at least against the Bulls. Right now I would bet KG and Dieng will be the closers as reliable free throw shooters, rim defenders without fouling and floor spacers to the elbow.
Perhaps, but I think that lineup limits the offense too much, in that KG is now purely a jump shooter and Dieng is also limited in what he can do. Bjelica gives you another ball handler and playmaker on the floor. We simply have no other PFs that can run a pick and roll as the ball handler. He can actually do this. In fact, our SFs can't even do this (Shabazz definitely can't and Wiggins was never asked to do this).
Of course perhaps Bjelica ends up being a total flop like Shved and we end up ruing the day we signed him. But I feel pretty confident that Flip is going to end up leaning on him pretty heavily.
I don't think we need offensive help with Ricky, Martin and Wiggins in the game. We need defenders and rebounders and that's what Dieng and KG provide best on the team right now at the big position. I don't think a PnR ball handling 4 is high on the list of things we need to close out games. Dieng and KG both know how to work out of the high post and are good passers when guys like Wiggins and Martin make the right cuts. If we really need a second PnR ball handler, Lavine is more likely the answer than Bjelica. At the end of the day, there was way more hype for Mirotic than Bjelica is getting and Mirotic had 1 really good month while being just ok for the rest of the year. I don't expect Bjelica to be a huge factor for us this year. I think he'll have moments, but I think Dieng going into his 3rd year is going to be a better option.
Well, that leaves you with basically two guys that can get their own shot and one creator (in Rubio). I think that's fine to open halves up with, but I like the idea of having multiple ball handlers/creators on the floor in crunch time. I think a lot of the last 5 minutes of tight games are going to look something like this:
C - KG
PF - Bjelica
SF - Wiggins
SG - Martin or LaVine
PG - Rubio
As for Bjelica vs. Mirotic, you might be right. I'm not necessarily making the case that Bjelica will be any better than Mirotic. What I am saying is that he will be the best option at PF in crunch time available to Flip, with KG sliding over to C.
SJM, That's the whole point. There aren't any PFs on our roster or many other rosters that can handle the ball and make plays like Bjelica. Don't take my word for it. Listen to Flip in his opening remarks of Bjelica's press conference a couple weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGpIgLj3o7M
Guess I have a hard time getting too excited about a guy that didn't make it to the NBA until now. If his passing, ball handling are so good, what was holding him back? Is he going to be a complete sieve on D?
Flip talks a really good game, but it doesn't seem to show up on the court. He says he is looking for two way players, but doesn't seem to realize that one or two poor defenders can implode your D. Or not telling guys to shoot long two's, but specifically told guys at the start of last season not to shoot three's. What is left?
You might be right on all points. I'm not necessarily suggesting that Bjelica will be a brilliant player. I am, however, suggesting that he will be the best option available to Flip given the various lineup combinations to pick from in late close-game situations.
Believe me, last season I wanted us to go bigger to start halves. I wanted Thad to come off the bench and for Dieng to start next to Pek. I then wanted Adrien and Dieng to start games together when Pek was out and we acquired Jeff Adrien. I hated the fact we started games with either a small (Thad) or incompetent (Payne) starting PF.
Again, this is my prediction on what Flip will do late in 4th quarters of tight games. I don't think KG/Dieng or KG/Towns will be as compelling of an option for him as KG/Bjelica.
khans2k5 wrote:I think Towns is too easy as a foul drawing target to keep in at the end of games. We saw Wiggins even get taken advantage of at least against the Bulls. Right now I would bet KG and Dieng will be the closers as reliable free throw shooters, rim defenders without fouling and floor spacers to the elbow.
Perhaps, but I think that lineup limits the offense too much, in that KG is now purely a jump shooter and Dieng is also limited in what he can do. Bjelica gives you another ball handler and playmaker on the floor. We simply have no other PFs that can run a pick and roll as the ball handler. He can actually do this. In fact, our SFs can't even do this (Shabazz definitely can't and Wiggins was never asked to do this).
Of course perhaps Bjelica ends up being a total flop like Shved and we end up ruing the day we signed him. But I feel pretty confident that Flip is going to end up leaning on him pretty heavily.
I don't think we need offensive help with Ricky, Martin and Wiggins in the game. We need defenders and rebounders and that's what Dieng and KG provide best on the team right now at the big position. I don't think a PnR ball handling 4 is high on the list of things we need to close out games. Dieng and KG both know how to work out of the high post and are good passers when guys like Wiggins and Martin make the right cuts. If we really need a second PnR ball handler, Lavine is more likely the answer than Bjelica. At the end of the day, there was way more hype for Mirotic than Bjelica is getting and Mirotic had 1 really good month while being just ok for the rest of the year. I don't expect Bjelica to be a huge factor for us this year. I think he'll have moments, but I think Dieng going into his 3rd year is going to be a better option.
Well, that leaves you with basically two guys that can get their own shot and one creator (in Rubio). I think that's fine to open halves up with, but I like the idea of having multiple ball handlers/creators on the floor in crunch time. I think a lot of the last 5 minutes of tight games are going to look something like this:
C - KG
PF - Bjelica
SF - Wiggins
SG - Martin or LaVine
PG - Rubio
As for Bjelica vs. Mirotic, you might be right. I'm not necessarily making the case that Bjelica will be any better than Mirotic. What I am saying is that he will be the best option at PF in crunch time available to Flip, with KG sliding over to C.
There's only 1 ball. There isn't time to have 3 different guys try to create a shot on any given possession. It will probably be Rubio probing and PnR with KG or Dieng and then eventually Wiggins or Martin get the ball to create a look at the end of the shot clock. Rubio PnR, Martin/Wiggins creation and KG/Dieng high post passing to cutters are 3 legitimate tools that can be used every possession. Having Bjelica contribute to the 1st tool would give us another option, but if he's a step back defensively and on the boards, I just don't see the offensive benefit being enough of a positive to make that the choice for Flip.
khans2k5 wrote:I think Towns is too easy as a foul drawing target to keep in at the end of games. We saw Wiggins even get taken advantage of at least against the Bulls. Right now I would bet KG and Dieng will be the closers as reliable free throw shooters, rim defenders without fouling and floor spacers to the elbow.
Perhaps, but I think that lineup limits the offense too much, in that KG is now purely a jump shooter and Dieng is also limited in what he can do. Bjelica gives you another ball handler and playmaker on the floor. We simply have no other PFs that can run a pick and roll as the ball handler. He can actually do this. In fact, our SFs can't even do this (Shabazz definitely can't and Wiggins was never asked to do this).
Of course perhaps Bjelica ends up being a total flop like Shved and we end up ruing the day we signed him. But I feel pretty confident that Flip is going to end up leaning on him pretty heavily.
I don't think we need offensive help with Ricky, Martin and Wiggins in the game. We need defenders and rebounders and that's what Dieng and KG provide best on the team right now at the big position. I don't think a PnR ball handling 4 is high on the list of things we need to close out games. Dieng and KG both know how to work out of the high post and are good passers when guys like Wiggins and Martin make the right cuts. If we really need a second PnR ball handler, Lavine is more likely the answer than Bjelica. At the end of the day, there was way more hype for Mirotic than Bjelica is getting and Mirotic had 1 really good month while being just ok for the rest of the year. I don't expect Bjelica to be a huge factor for us this year. I think he'll have moments, but I think Dieng going into his 3rd year is going to be a better option.
Well, that leaves you with basically two guys that can get their own shot and one creator (in Rubio). I think that's fine to open halves up with, but I like the idea of having multiple ball handlers/creators on the floor in crunch time. I think a lot of the last 5 minutes of tight games are going to look something like this:
C - KG
PF - Bjelica
SF - Wiggins
SG - Martin or LaVine
PG - Rubio
As for Bjelica vs. Mirotic, you might be right. I'm not necessarily making the case that Bjelica will be any better than Mirotic. What I am saying is that he will be the best option at PF in crunch time available to Flip, with KG sliding over to C.
There's only 1 ball. There isn't time to have 3 different guys try to create a shot on any given possession. It will probably be Rubio probing and PnR with KG or Dieng and then eventually Wiggins or Martin get the ball to create a look at the end of the shot clock. Rubio PnR, Martin/Wiggins creation and KG/Dieng high post passing to cutters are 3 legitimate tools that can be used every possession. Having Bjelica contribute to the 1st tool would give us another option, but if he's a step back defensively and on the boards, I just don't see the offensive benefit being enough of a positive to make that the choice for Flip.
Right, there is only one ball, but it's nice to have multiple playmakers so that you have multiple ways to potentially exploit the defense. That might involve Bjelica, it might not - it depends on the strength of the defense. But knowing that you could have up to three different guys make a play off the bounce means Flip has many more options available.
I also wouldn't be too quick to assume that Dieng is a better rebounder and defender than Bjelica.
khans2k5 wrote:I think Towns is too easy as a foul drawing target to keep in at the end of games. We saw Wiggins even get taken advantage of at least against the Bulls. Right now I would bet KG and Dieng will be the closers as reliable free throw shooters, rim defenders without fouling and floor spacers to the elbow.
Perhaps, but I think that lineup limits the offense too much, in that KG is now purely a jump shooter and Dieng is also limited in what he can do. Bjelica gives you another ball handler and playmaker on the floor. We simply have no other PFs that can run a pick and roll as the ball handler. He can actually do this. In fact, our SFs can't even do this (Shabazz definitely can't and Wiggins was never asked to do this).
Of course perhaps Bjelica ends up being a total flop like Shved and we end up ruing the day we signed him. But I feel pretty confident that Flip is going to end up leaning on him pretty heavily.
I don't think we need offensive help with Ricky, Martin and Wiggins in the game. We need defenders and rebounders and that's what Dieng and KG provide best on the team right now at the big position. I don't think a PnR ball handling 4 is high on the list of things we need to close out games. Dieng and KG both know how to work out of the high post and are good passers when guys like Wiggins and Martin make the right cuts. If we really need a second PnR ball handler, Lavine is more likely the answer than Bjelica. At the end of the day, there was way more hype for Mirotic than Bjelica is getting and Mirotic had 1 really good month while being just ok for the rest of the year. I don't expect Bjelica to be a huge factor for us this year. I think he'll have moments, but I think Dieng going into his 3rd year is going to be a better option.
Well, that leaves you with basically two guys that can get their own shot and one creator (in Rubio). I think that's fine to open halves up with, but I like the idea of having multiple ball handlers/creators on the floor in crunch time. I think a lot of the last 5 minutes of tight games are going to look something like this:
C - KG
PF - Bjelica
SF - Wiggins
SG - Martin or LaVine
PG - Rubio
As for Bjelica vs. Mirotic, you might be right. I'm not necessarily making the case that Bjelica will be any better than Mirotic. What I am saying is that he will be the best option at PF in crunch time available to Flip, with KG sliding over to C.
There's only 1 ball. There isn't time to have 3 different guys try to create a shot on any given possession. It will probably be Rubio probing and PnR with KG or Dieng and then eventually Wiggins or Martin get the ball to create a look at the end of the shot clock. Rubio PnR, Martin/Wiggins creation and KG/Dieng high post passing to cutters are 3 legitimate tools that can be used every possession. Having Bjelica contribute to the 1st tool would give us another option, but if he's a step back defensively and on the boards, I just don't see the offensive benefit being enough of a positive to make that the choice for Flip.
Right, there is only one ball, but it's nice to have multiple playmakers so that you have multiple ways to potentially exploit the defense. That might involve Bjelica, it might not - it depends on the strength of the defense. But knowing that you could have up to three different guys make a play off the bounce means Flip has many more options available.
I also wouldn't be too quick to assume that Dieng is a better rebounder and defender than Bjelica.
Bjelica has had 1 good rebounding year in Europe with sub-par athletes. Dieng has proven he can rebound at the NBA level and can be an effective help defender. He's just not an anchor which is why he would play with KG. I don't think you're accounting for the competition level and athleticism difference between the NBA and what Bjelica has seen accurately. Bjelica's best year was still only 12/8.5/2 in 27 MPG's in the Euroleague. It's not like he was lighting the world on fire over there.
Regarding bjelica, as ive stated already. I dont see him as our closer and our best big behind kg as Q states. Remember we have towns, dieng and pek still. Bjelica is a jack of all trades but master at NOTHING type. He is no boris diaw where he can hurt you with his playmaking at the pf spot.
We have rubio and wiggins who should have the ball at end of games. You have martin who can get off his shot and KG is still good at making plays at the high post. We need rebounders, finishers, defense in end of games situations. So happens that pek, dieng and towns are all excellent ft shooters, good rebounders and better at defense than bjelica. Its not like bjelica is a 3pt specialist either. If we go small then lets put bazz in there. He finishes at the rim, is fearless, crashes the boards and can shoot 3's.
I think bjelica is a rotation guy. I would certainly play him ahead of payne and AB and wont have a problem if he is the backup to kg. But I dont agree that he and kg are our best bigs as Q states and I feel pek, dieng and even towns are better options for me.
Bjelica absolutely is a playmaker. That's one of his strongest traits, really. He used to play point guard early in his Euro career. Saying otherwise just shows you're a bit misinformed when it comes to this player in particular.
worldK wrote:Regarding bjelica, as ive stated already. I dont see him as our closer and our best big behind kg as Q states. Remember we have towns, dieng and pek still. Bjelica is a jack of all trades but master at NOTHING type. He is no boris diaw where he can hurt you with his playmaking at the pf spot.
We have rubio and wiggins who should have the ball at end of games. You have martin who can get off his shot and KG is still good at making plays at the high post. We need rebounders, finishers, defense in end of games situations. So happens that pek, dieng and towns are all excellent ft shooters, good rebounders and better at defense than bjelica. Its not like bjelica is a 3pt specialist either. If we go small then lets put bazz in there. He finishes at the rim, is fearless, crashes the boards and can shoot 3's.
I think bjelica is a rotation guy. I would certainly play him ahead of payne and AB and wont have a problem if he is the backup to kg. But I dont agree that he and kg are our best bigs as Q states and I feel pek, dieng and even towns are better options for me.
You are making some mighty big assumptions about a rookie big man (Towns), the starting Center for one of the worst defenses in franchise history, and NBA history for that matter (Dieng), and a guy who is chronically injured (Pek).
I honestly don't know how good of a defender and rebounder Bjelica is going to be in the NBA, but the group you are comparing him against don't exactly set the bar very high. What I do know is that he can dribble and pass the ball from the 4-spot and none of those other guys have that skill-set.
How can anyone that's a regular poster on this forum not know more about Bjelica than some of these posts suggest?
Why didn't he come over sooner? He was under contract and at different points he wasn't ready and the Wolves didn't have room for him.
Is he a good rebounder? We don't know. Often players overseas have drastically outperformed in that area (not to mention other stats) compared to the leagues they play in Scola and Pek are good examples of this.
Bjelica is a 3 point shooter. I've seen plenty of highlights of him hitting 3's well beyond the international line in regular game play. Will he hit a high enough percentage in the NBA next year to be effective? Idk but that's absolutely part of his game.
Cam covered him being a playmaker.
We don't know what his defense is gonna be like. I think assuming he won't be really good on that end seems reasonable. He seems like a pretty smart player with a lot of experience I would expect him to be decent and not terrible.
Now to Q's point of him being a late game option. Idk it's an interesting theory. Remember that back in the day Flip played a lot of small ball with the Wolves. Part of that was because he didn't have any centers and wanted to get the best guys he could on the floor but it's still worth mentioning. If this team is going to take a healthy step forward we need some guys to show they are worthwhile contributors this season. I think it's possible Bjelica does that the 2nd half of the year. He may show more than other guys early in the year too since he is older and more experienced. I could see him being a late game option but right now there are a lot of options in theory but there is are questions about basically every one of the bigs.
I agree Q's take on about possibility to use Bjelica as late game option. Many teams are using small ball lineups in the end of games. I think using Bjelica in late game gives the same benefits without sacrificing much in rebounding since he is great in that area. When Kukoc played for Bulls, PJ used him a lot in late game situations as a power forward because he was such a bad mismatch for opponent. With Bjelica Wolves have similar option but Bjelica is stronger and better rebounder and thus not as much liability in defensive end in power forward position.
To say that he has had just one good rebounding year is absolutely an understatement. His last year's rebounding stats in Euroleague were not just good, they were absolutely terrific. Neither of Gasol brothers, Scola, Pekovic, Mirotic, Splitter, Ibaka, Asik, Ilyasova or Gortat had that good rebounding numbers when they played in Euroleague. Even Bjelica's previous years numbers beat most of those guys numbers. Jonas Valanciunas is the only current NBA player that had even better (per 40 minutes) rebounding averages in Euroleague than Bjelica had last year and he played in much worse team and only about 15 minutes per game.
