Game Report - Wolves v. Celtics

[Coolbreeze44]

Thanks for the write-up Lip. I hope you enjoy Hawaii. That makes Tim's 3 weeks in Texas sound downright mundane.

- I will defend Mitchell's decision to pull Tyus when he did. As much as I like Tyus's "winner" persona and offensive moxie, the guy is an abject liability on defense. There is simply no way you ride him deep into the 4th when you've got Ricky Rubio on the bench. May be in another year or two it will be different.

- Having Martin and Shabazz on the floor at the same time should be made illegal in the contiguous 48. I'm OK if they play together in Hawaii or Alaska.....But nowhere else.....ever.

- That 17-0 run by the Cs was just BRUTAL.

- The raw numbers that KAT put up were impressive. But all the different ways he scores is what is even more impressive: Jump hooks with either hand; mid-range jumpers; up-and-unders; 3-pointers; driving layups off the bounce; put backs....Just an incredible array of weapons. It's inevitable that at some point the offense revolves around him. Then we will REALLY see his passing game pick up. I could easily see him being a 25/12/5 type player in the near future.

- Wiggins had a brutal night last night. I'm OK with him being off on his offensive game, as that happens to everyone. But then the way he let Jae Crowder abuse him on the other end!? That was what was most disappointing to me. Hopefully he bounces back with some big games on this road trip.

That's just good stuff Q

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

I will probably be run off the board here, but I trade Wiggins for Crowder straight-up every day of the week. I just don't like the way Wiggins plays, and Crowder is simply the more impactful player. But honestly, I don't think there is any way Boston does that deal. Jae is probably their most influencial player, and is locked up for peanuts for the next 4 seasons. It's criminal.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I will probably be run off the board here, but I trade Wiggins for Crowder straight-up every day of the week. I just don't like the way Wiggins plays, and Crowder is simply the more impactful player. But honestly, I don't think there is any way Boston does that deal. Jae is probably their most influencial player, and is locked up for peanuts for the next 4 seasons. It's criminal.

Uh...Boston does that deal in a heartbeat and we shouldn't even consider that deal. Crowder is better now, but Wiggins is a sophomore and Crowder is a 25 year old veteran in his prime. This would be one of the most short sighted moves of all time to get a player who's better now because you just don't want to wait for a guy like Wiggins to get better than Crowder. Crowder is 4 years older than Wiggins so I think if you give Wiggins 4 more years of development, he's going to be a way better player than Crowder is now at 25.

[kurrdog53 [enjin:7013678]]

I, too, have soured a bit on Wiggins due to lack of hustle, energy, and stats. BUT, I am ok if he can be an 18-22ppg guy with KAT scoring 22+, Zach scoring 14-16+ and someone else (FA or 2016 draft pick) picking up some significant slack. If we can have it where Wiggins is our 3rd or 4th option and play defense, we can be really good. This summer will be big for this roster.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I will probably be run off the board here, but I trade Wiggins for Crowder straight-up every day of the week. I just don't like the way Wiggins plays, and Crowder is simply the more impactful player. But honestly, I don't think there is any way Boston does that deal. Jae is probably their most influencial player, and is locked up for peanuts for the next 4 seasons. It's criminal.

Uh...Boston does that deal in a heartbeat and we shouldn't even consider that deal. Crowder is better now, but Wiggins is a sophomore and Crowder is a 25 year old veteran in his prime. This would be one of the most short sighted moves of all time to get a player who's better now because you just don't want to wait for a guy like Wiggins to get better than Crowder. Crowder is 4 years older than Wiggins so I think if you give Wiggins 4 more years of development, he's going to be a way better player than Crowder is now at 25.

While I agree with you on not doing the deal because of Wiggins' potential...

A lot of NBA players never reach their potential or hit a plateau. I'm not "convinced" that Wiggins will be the star that others see and project. I think it's possible. I hope it happens. But there's a lot of variables that need to happen to get there. It's not as automatic as it might seem.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

I will probably be run off the board here, but I trade Wiggins for Crowder straight-up every day of the week. I just don't like the way Wiggins plays, and Crowder is simply the more impactful player. But honestly, I don't think there is any way Boston does that deal. Jae is probably their most influencial player, and is locked up for peanuts for the next 4 seasons. It's criminal.

Uh...Boston does that deal in a heartbeat and we shouldn't even consider that deal. Crowder is better now, but Wiggins is a sophomore and Crowder is a 25 year old veteran in his prime. This would be one of the most short sighted moves of all time to get a player who's better now because you just don't want to wait for a guy like Wiggins to get better than Crowder. Crowder is 4 years older than Wiggins so I think if you give Wiggins 4 more years of development, he's going to be a way better player than Crowder is now at 25.

Are we sure about all this (other than the age difference)? Outside FTA, what are Wiggins elite skills? And even that skill is tarnished by a paltry 74% FT%. The remainder of his skillset is below average. One of the most gifted physical players in the league, and yet he shows low skill level in all of the facets in which he should excel (i.e. rebounds, steals, blocks). He gets touted for his defense, but I just don't see it on a consistent basis. Not 100% sure he lacks basketball IQ (although I question this aspect), but he certainly lacks a feel for the game as far as what I see.

All that said, the ultimate kicker for me it is attitude and drive. While Wiggins may have more pure talent than Crowder in his 1 hand alone, Jae is flat out the better player, and this is a compliment to the work and drive Crowder must have. With Wiggins supposed skillset and athletic profile, he should be light-years better than Crowder despite the age and experience gap (think Towns as a comparative). Wiggins is what I call a flat-line guy. No emotion....no joy....no personality. No getting rattled is one thing, but I can honestly say he looks bored with basketball 100% of the time I see him play.

So my assessment is not short-sighted, but rather an indictment that not every guy is created equal....and I just don't see the stardom for Andrew that many on this board do. If Jae was 30 years old, I would agree. But a 25 year old player will be in his prime for another 5-7 years. Jae will certainly never be in the "star" category, but we have already seen what his particular skillset and talent can do to enable a team to win.

[kekgeek]

Can I just say I love crowder, but this came out of nowhere. Crowder was like the mavericks 9th to 10th man then he was traded and broke out. Let's cool down on the wiggins trading he is 6th all time in scoring before his 21st birthday. He struggled but let's hope he bounces back instead of trying to trade him after every bad game

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

In defense of Wiggins, one thing he does that Crowder will never do as well is become the focal point of a defense. Because of Wiggins ability to get to the basket, he generates a ton of attention by opposing defenses. Crowder has never had to carry the type of offensive load/usage that Wiggins does.

I also don't put a lot of stock into one's emotions on the court. I'm perfectly fine with Wiggins' personality and introverted tendencies. I actually kind of like the contrast with KAT. Look at Kawhi Leonard. That guy never shows emotion and he's probably a top 4 player right now.

All of that being said, Wiggins is not the panacea many thought he would be as a #1 pick. The same issues we see today are the exact same issues on display at Kansas. He's a more versatile scorer for sure, but the handles are still mediocre, the rebounding is mediocre, the floor vision is OK-ish, and his motor is questionable.

I think a higher scoring version of DeMar DeRozan is a realistic expectation. That's a damn good player, but it's not a superstar.

[thedoper]

In defense of Wiggins, one thing he does that Crowder will never do as well is become the focal point of a defense. Because of Wiggins ability to get to the basket, he generates a ton of attention by opposing defenses. Crowder has never had to carry the type of offensive load/usage that Wiggins does.

I also don't put a lot of stock into one's emotions on the court. I'm perfectly fine with Wiggins' personality and introverted tendencies. I actually kind of like the contrast with KAT. Look at Kawhi Leonard. That guy never shows emotion and he's probably a top 4 player right now.

All of that being said, Wiggins is not the panacea many thought he would be as a #1 pick. The same issues we see today are the exact same issues on display at Kansas. He's a more versatile scorer for sure, but the handles are still mediocre, the rebounding is mediocre, the floor vision is OK-ish, and his motor is questionable.

I think a higher scoring version of DeMar DeRozan is a realistic expectation. That's a damn good player, but it's not a superstar.

You don't think Wiggins could become a more dominant defender than DeRozan? A higher scoring better defending Demar Derozan is Paul George. That is pretty great as far as I am concerned.

[kekgeek]

In defense of Wiggins, one thing he does that Crowder will never do as well is become the focal point of a defense. Because of Wiggins ability to get to the basket, he generates a ton of attention by opposing defenses. Crowder has never had to carry the type of offensive load/usage that Wiggins does.

I also don't put a lot of stock into one's emotions on the court. I'm perfectly fine with Wiggins' personality and introverted tendencies. I actually kind of like the contrast with KAT. Look at Kawhi Leonard. That guy never shows emotion and he's probably a top 4 player right now.

All of that being said, Wiggins is not the panacea many thought he would be as a #1 pick. The same issues we see today are the exact same issues on display at Kansas. He's a more versatile scorer for sure, but the handles are still mediocre, the rebounding is mediocre, the floor vision is OK-ish, and his motor is questionable.

I think a higher scoring version of DeMar DeRozan is a realistic expectation. That's a damn good player, but it's not a superstar.

The one thing I think he has got better at in the last 2 months is his vision he is making the right pass more often than not now. Is he a great passer no but he is getting better in that area.